The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE DEADLINE

Albertbarich · Feb 3, 2023

vegassd said:
If we are only after 4 players I think that would actually be achievable. But a lot of factors at play.

I guess the super optimistic view is that the Paratici ban is limited to Italy, Conte comes back from surgery with a positive outlook and signs a contract, which in turn gets Kane to extend for 2 years minimum. Everton get relegated so we manage to take Pickford for a reasonable fee. We pay big money for a beast CCB and do a creative loan with obligation for a good LCB. Davies retires and we sign Lenglet as LCB backup on a cut price deal. Danjuma has been a success and we effectively swap him for Lo Celso. And after 6 months of further turmoil, Zaniolo falls into our lap.

Flip side is Paratici gets a full 30 month ban, Conte walks in Summer and Kane is sold for c. £50m. We might assume it would be Poch coming in, then it's an absolute craps shoot in terms of which players get second changes and how we would line up. That would be apocalypse time, although I bet we would have a fun season!

As you imply with your last sentence, I think a revolutionary window is going to be a bit of a pipe dream - at least when there are uncertainties around. The January market is a different animal to Summer, but money talks and we surely have it now. We have missed at least one trigger pull last month, and if Levy is still being gun shy come Summer I can't see how we get what we need done.

Or Gil develops into the next Messi under Poch and we all fap ourselves to death. Could happen.

I'd rip that defence up if it was up to me.

I think Dier has 18 months left so I'd be looking to sell along with Sanchez and Tanganga. I'd keep Lenglet as a back up and buy a really top CCB and a younger one aswell .

I just hope they're trying to do these deals now and they should probably looking at the likes of N'dicka on a free

Bluto Blutarsky · Feb 3, 2023

Albertbarich said:
I'd rip that defence up if it was up to me.

I think Dier has 18 months left so I'd be looking to sell along with Sanchez and Tanganga. I'd keep Lenglet as a back up and buy a really top CCB and a younger one aswell .

I just hope they're trying to do these deals now and they should probably looking at the likes of N'dicka on a free

Can't just keep Lenglet - he is here on a loan-only deal

Romero - Keep
Sanchez - Sell
Tanganga - Keep (HG value)
Dier - Keep
Lenglet - goes back to Barça
Davies - Keep

CCB - Buy
LCB - Buy

RCB: Romero - Tanganga
CCB: NEW - Dier
LCB: NEW - Davies

This is the absolute minimum we have to get done. And, by starting CBs - I mean high quality CBs - not Lenglet level. I would be fine if we can also sell Dier and/or Davie and bring in capable back-ups - but that is probably asking too much.

tevezito · Feb 3, 2023

fishhhandaricecake said:
So simply put but so very true.

But surely it's true that almost every club does it every window. We just focus on ourselves. It's virtually impossible to address all of your needs in one window - Conte has said as much.

In fact that's one of the reasons why football is so entertaining, it always leaves room for improvement / drop-off and so there'a a virtuous circle of development cycles across teams, which leads to different teams winning things at different times (except us), although this has clearly been lessened by countries owning clubs and minimising the potential for drop-off by playing with cheat codes.

SpursSince1980 · Feb 3, 2023

I am really confused about the Levy debate. Last summer, FP was apparently the man in charge of all transfers. And that pressure had been put on Levy to provide a budget then step away. But ITK seem to be saying that’s not the case. Levy is just as involved — based on what we did (and didn’t) do over the last two transfer windows. Or, FP is basically doing what Levy tells him to do when it comes to transfer negotiations.

I know FP has been heavily involved in restructuring our scouting. But surely, we hired him so that Levy would stop being Levy. In short: We will never be ambitious or act like a big club because of Daniel and ENIC. We will always be short a few players. We will always screw around with transfers. We will always effectively lie to every manager when it comes to ‘backing’ them.

It is hard to feel optimistic about our future given this construct. As I don’t have any confidence in ENIC/Levy going anytime soon. Clearly we are a highly lucrative ATM. Why sell? When they can just keep milking a growing revenue stream? There is no pressure to sell.

That appears to be our reality. And just like everyone else, I was hoodwinked into thinking the stadium would be a fiscal game changer. We’d finally have the resources to compete at the highest level. But all of that was essentially untrue. Instead, all that has changed is the owners have massively grown their bank accounts and don’t give two shits about winning anything, as long as they keep the squad at a slightly competitive level, but never enough to take us to the summit. No risk. No pushing the boat out. Just the same old same old.

One trophy since 2000. And that’ll continue to be a goose egg it would seem until the unmovable object that is ENIC moves.

That is rather depressing.

And yet… I still love the club and feel we have a much better squad than we did two years ago. So, I guess that is something to cling to during this period of endless frustration.

Mr Pink · Feb 3, 2023

Lea said:
They not “defending “ just holding different view than you. Trix is an ITK but they all been wrong before never the less they got an opinion and so do others. Easy solution is to accept the fact that we all got opinions, yours or mine isn’t lesser valued.

I'm agreeing with Trix as a poster, not an ITK.

He's posting what I belive to be the case.

Lea · Feb 3, 2023

Mr Pink said:
I'm agreeing with Trix as a poster, not an ITK.

He's posting what I belive to be the case.

Yes but you dismiss others who disagree and this is my point ?

Scot-Spur · Feb 3, 2023

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Can't just keep Lenglet - he is here on a loan-only deal

Romero - Keep
Sanchez - Sell
Tanganga - Keep (HG value)
Dier - Keep
Lenglet - goes back to Barça
Davies - Keep

CCB - Buy
LCB - Buy

RCB: Romero - Tanganga
CCB: NEW - Dier
LCB: NEW - Davies

This is the absolute minimum we have to get done. And, by starting CBs - I mean high quality CBs - not Lenglet level. I would be fine if we can also sell Dier and/or Davie and bring in capable back-ups - but that is probably asking too much.

I agree with most of this but Tanganga has to go and play football. He is what 24 now? He can’t just be sitting on our bench.

Mr Pink · Feb 3, 2023

Lea said:
Yes but you dismiss others who disagree and this is my point ?

I'm not dismissing anyone. I just find it difficult to understand their opinion.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

However, there's certain things that have happened that are relevant to this discussion regardless of opinions.

Ie our approach to most transfer transfer negotiations.

mr ashley · Feb 3, 2023

Lea said:
Yes but you dismiss others who disagree and this is my point ?

Controversial point incoming

If we give equal validity to poorly-formed opinions as we do to those with insight or reasoning then we end up with a problem.
People are entitled to their opinion-and to voice it. That’s what makes the forum after all. It doesn’t make them right though

Mr Pink · Feb 3, 2023

mr ashley said:
Controversial point incoming

If we give equal validity to poorly-formed opinions as we do to those with insight or reasoning then we end up with a problem.
People are entitled to their opinion-and to voice it. That’s what makes the forum after all. It doesn’t make them right though

And it's a cop out as well, a bit anyway.

OK all opinions are equally valid, close the discussion lol.

Dannyspur · Feb 3, 2023

tevezito said:
I've got two quid in my pocket, does that make me a millionaire?

If you’ve got a £500k house and £499998 in the bank it does!

T-Bone · Feb 3, 2023

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Can't just keep Lenglet - he is here on a loan-only deal

Romero - Keep
Sanchez - Sell
Tanganga - Keep (HG value)
Dier - Keep
Lenglet - goes back to Barça
Davies - Keep

CCB - Buy
LCB - Buy

RCB: Romero - Tanganga
CCB: NEW - Dier
LCB: NEW - Davies

This is the absolute minimum we have to get done. And, by starting CBs - I mean high quality CBs - not Lenglet level. I would be fine if we can also sell Dier and/or Davie and bring in capable back-ups - but that is probably asking too much.

I think GK is the most important upgrade we need. Would put as much money to this as possible. Lloris is an absolute liability. Awful

archiewasking · Feb 3, 2023

Albertbarich said:
I'd rip that defence up if it was up to me.

I think Dier has 18 months left so I'd be looking to sell along with Sanchez and Tanganga. I'd keep Lenglet as a back up and buy a really top CCB and a younger one aswell .

I just hope they're trying to do these deals now and they should probably looking at the likes of N'dicka on a free

Would no way keep Lenglet. The 4th goal against City told me all I need to know.

Albertbarich · Feb 3, 2023

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Can't just keep Lenglet - he is here on a loan-only deal

Romero - Keep
Sanchez - Sell
Tanganga - Keep (HG value)
Dier - Keep
Lenglet - goes back to Barça
Davies - Keep

CCB - Buy
LCB - Buy

RCB: Romero - Tanganga
CCB: NEW - Dier
LCB: NEW - Davies

This is the absolute minimum we have to get done. And, by starting CBs - I mean high quality CBs - not Lenglet level. I would be fine if we can also sell Dier and/or Davie and bring in capable back-ups - but that is probably asking too much.

I was under the impression that Lenglet would only cost about 12 million to buy so on that premise if keep him as experienced backup in two of the centre back positions.

cliff jones · Feb 3, 2023

Bluto Blutarsky said:
Can't just keep Lenglet - he is here on a loan-only deal

Romero - Keep
Sanchez - Sell
Tanganga - Keep (HG value)
Dier - Keep
Lenglet - goes back to Barça
Davies - Keep

CCB - Buy
LCB - Buy

RCB: Romero - Tanganga
CCB: NEW - Dier
LCB: NEW - Davies

This is the absolute minimum we have to get done. And, by starting CBs - I mean high quality CBs - not Lenglet level. I would be fine if we can also sell Dier and/or Davie and bring in capable back-ups - but that is probably asking too much.

good post, but if we get reasonable bids in for any of your three back ups we should accept them.

I'd also play Emerson RCB before Tanganga.

There must be a decent defender in the academy, or in the EFL, for us to take a punt on.

ps- I've just realised what thread I'm in. So I'd better thank the ITKs for all the excitement in the past few weeks. Cheers!

WiganSpur · Feb 3, 2023

Albertbarich said:
I was under the impression that Lenglet would only cost about 12 million to buy so on that premise if keep him as experienced backup in two of the centre back positions.

Has he been a disaster for us? No. But he hasn't played well enough to warrant a purchase imo and I fear he would just be more deadwood in a few years time. I don't see anything between him and Davies really but perhaps if we find a buyer for Davies then he might come back into the picture as a backup option.

Ghost Hardware · Feb 3, 2023

Thenewcat said:
I don’t know why zaniolo didn’t happen - the whole thing is weird. As for Hincapie, there are millions of possible reasons. We didn’t match an exorbitant asking price, they couldn’t line up a replacement, that’s the whole point. January signings are harder because there is less time for the dominos to fall into place

Yeah i agree, i really cant understand the Zaniolo one. Regardless of one's feeling towards the player. We chased him for two windows, he was available and his contract was running out. Then in the space of a few hours if not less (and it must have been that considering he was about to do his medical in Everton) we change target to Danjuma who plays in a different position and was clearly available for the whole window. I get the opportunistic, but why chase Zaniolo for two windows if we don't really want him. Why not get Danjuma from day one. Idk our business never ceases to baffles me.

Albertbarich · Feb 3, 2023

WiganSpur said:
Has he been a disaster for us? No. But he hasn't played well enough to warrant a purchase imo and I fear he would just be more deadwood in a few years time. I don't see anything between him and Davies really but perhaps if we find a buyer for Davies then he might come back into the picture as a backup option.

I know I'm in the minority but I like both him and Davies.

My priority would be the central position where I'd like a real leader

vegassd · Feb 3, 2023

mr ashley said:
If we give equal validity to poorly-formed opinions as we do to those with insight or reasoning then we end up with a problem.
People are entitled to their opinion-and to voice it. That’s what makes the forum after all. It doesn’t make them right though

So you're saying half the people who want Levy out are wrong?!

There's a tricky line to tread when it comes to confirmation bias; if somebody says something I like I'm going to think it's "well formed" and "reasoned". Doesn't mean it is. And there's this sort of binary thinking happening on the forum where you are either part of the "in" camp or the "out" camp, but I think a lot of people have mixed views.

A: "We drag our feet on every single transfer"
B: "We moved quickly last Summer so it's not EVERY transfer"
A: "I can't believe you're defending Levy"
- - -
A: "We missed signing a CB which was a priority"
B: "On the plus side we did sign a RWB which was also a priority"
A: "Why are you defending Levy?"

I think there's a lot of that on these forums (to be expected) but it doesn't mean that person B has a poorly formed opinion. In fact, the two snippets there are completely truthful. I have a feeling that was what @Lea was getting at.

In terms of our window, we are generally all aware of the problems at the club, the weaknesses in the squad, and both the success and failures in regard to player recruitment. It feels like a let down of a window (to me at least) but that doesn't make it a complete failure. When you read general "window rating" articles written outside of our Spurs bubble, it is generally being seen as a moderate thumbs up.

That doesn't count for shit on the pitch of course. But we can all be a bit more relaxed when it comes to judging somebody who thinks we aren't in complete crisis.

mr ashley · Feb 3, 2023

vegassd said:
So you're saying half the people who want Levy out are wrong?!

There's a tricky line to tread when it comes to confirmation bias; if somebody says something I like I'm going to think it's "well formed" and "reasoned". Doesn't mean it is. And there's this sort of binary thinking happening on the forum where you are either part of the "in" camp or the "out" camp, but I think a lot of people have mixed views.

A: "We drag our feet on every single transfer"
B: "We moved quickly last Summer so it's not EVERY transfer"
A: "I can't believe you're defending Levy"
- - -
A: "We missed signing a CB which was a priority"
B: "On the plus side we did sign a RWB which was also a priority"
A: "Why are you defending Levy?"

I think there's a lot of that on these forums (to be expected) but it doesn't mean that person B has a poorly formed opinion. In fact, the two snippets there are completely truthful. I have a feeling that was what @Lea was getting at.

In terms of our window, we are generally all aware of the problems at the club, the weaknesses in the squad, and both the success and failures in regard to player recruitment. It feels like a let down of a window (to me at least) but that doesn't make it a complete failure. When you read general "window rating" articles written outside of our Spurs bubble, it is generally being seen as a moderate thumbs up.

That doesn't count for shit on the pitch of course. But we can all be a bit more relaxed when it comes to judging somebody who thinks we aren't in complete crisis.

I don’t know why you replied to me and then deleted the part where I admitted that my point was controversial?

I understand that people do not always agree.
And it would be totally unrealistic to think that my views will be enough to change peoples minds. I don’t think there’s anyone on this board prepared to change their mind

I think the biggest source of disagreement in these boards particularly appears to be between those with ambition to win(and who therefore challenge the MO of levy) and those who seem to be happy to muddle along (and therefore seem to make excuses for levy’s MO)

of course it’s more nuanced than that (for example, I’d happily keep Davies as LCB backup, I’m ok waiting until the summer to replace Hugo. I don’t expect us to sign gvardiol and hakimi for £300m) but equally I’m fed up hearing these cop out excuses that justify the ‘bare minimum’ approach on every window

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