The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - THE DEADLINE

[ComfortablyNumb]

People can take it wrongly or you have? I have 2 children they are both my priorities. That's as I say the reason the word "priorities"exits it's the plural of priority, it means more than one. If you couldn't have more than one priority there would be no reason to have the word ffs.

Anyway I can't be arsed to keep this going so am hitting the ignore on it.

The word "priorities" "shouldn't " exist. It makes a mockery of the word priority. If you have more than one priority, then you don't have any priority.
The world's going to hell in a handcart, and taking the English language with it.

 

[lifeof...]

Holly shit..can't believe this is still going

 

[carmeldevil]

Holly shit..can't believe this is still going

Piss poor priorities here.

 

[Roynie]

Priorities. In the ITK discussion thread? Just look at Policing where they have a number of Policing Priorities.

Get back on topic!

 

[FloridaSpur]

Is the next manager playing a revolutionary system with no CB's?

Conte already is.

 

[cliff jones]

Levy talking about spending in the top quartile. This needs to be the minimum, and sustained, without alternate windows seeing just a few mill laid out on loans to buy.

Like the one just gone.

Given Conte and Kane contractual positions, this was the window Levy should have gone big on a CB or whatever Conte said he wanted.

Because not convincing either or both has cost consequences far far greater than the 50 mill that would have cost.

Not my job to tell you who, but clearly leaving such an important acquisition till the summer (usually late August after the season has started of course) will not only have reduced our chances of success this season but also significantly increase the chance of the two most important people at the club deciding to walk.

 

[BENNO]

I'll answer your question by saying it's all completely irrelevant.

It boils down to this. The manager asked for a CB. We didn't get one.

How many windows have we seen a similar story unfold.

Come on Trix, it's not that simple. I'm not disputing the fact that over the years we've seen a manager ask for something that hasn't been delivered - no argument from me or anyone else on that point.

This window you've specifically referenced a CB as being asked for - which is contrary to most other reports. It was widely reported a RWB and a forward were priorities for Jan , and while we'd explore any other opportunities that came up it was suggested a goalie and 2 CB's were far more realistic to be happen in the summer, not now.

So even if we believe you had the correct version of events and everyone else didn't , it's still not as simple as getting Conte a CB, it's getting Conte a CB that he thinks is of the requisite calibre to improve the first XI over the next few months, rather than wait until the summer (when they'd be a wider selection available).

Hence me asking if Hincapie is/was really that player ? Granted i don't spend my day trawling European transfers but apart from the Ukrainian kid who's gone to Bournemouth that was apparently on our 'up and coming CB's ' list along with Hincapie, i haven't seen any CB move who Conte would have wanted, nor have i seen any failed moves for CB's that we could have at least been in the running for.

 

[Scot-Spur]

Come on Trix, it's not that simple. I'm not disputing the fact that over the years we've seen a manager ask for something that hasn't been delivered - no argument from me or anyone else on that point.

This window you've specifically referenced a CB as being asked for - which is contrary to most other reports. It was widely reported a RWB and a forward were priorities for Jan , and while we'd explore any other opportunities that came up it was suggested a goalie and 2 CB's were far more realistic to be happen in the summer, not now.

So even if we believe you had the correct version of events and everyone else didn't , it's still not as simple as getting Conte a CB, it's getting Conte a CB that he thinks is of the requisite calibre to improve the first XI over the next few months, rather than wait until the summer (when they'd be a wider selection available).

Hence me asking if Hincapie is/was really that player ? Granted i don't spend my day trawling European transfers but apart from the Ukrainian kid who's gone to Bournemouth that was apparently on our 'up and coming CB's ' list along with Hincapie, i haven't seen any CB move who Conte would have wanted, nor have i seen any failed moves for CB's that we could have at least been in the running for.

Did we not want a CB in the summer past also?

 

[BENNO]

Did we not want a CB in the summer past also?

From my understanding we did, but the ones we wanted didn't want to move - both Bastoni and Gvardiol had stated their reluctance to move (Bastoni due to love of club, Gvardiol due to upcoming WC) and Skriniar was seeing out his contract to move on a free. So we got Lenglet on loan.

It's very easy to say we need X,Y and Z - it's much more difficult to name an X,Y or Z who are available, who'd want to move to Spurs and who's transfer fee would be realistic not ridiculous.

And you can't use the argument that any player is available if you offer enough because if they are that good a player anyway, they'll almost certainly be sought after by other teams who have a far more established record of winning trophies and playing regular CL football.

The kid at Crystal Palace and Kilman at Wolves are players , who like Hincapie, we could probably get and afford imo, but they won't be that cheap (especially the Palace kid) and how good are they ? Not as good as the previously mentioned Gvardiol, Skriniar and Bastoni (although i believe this season he's not been good ?).

 

[nailsy]

Levy talking about spending in the top quartile. This needs to be the minimum, and sustained, without alternate windows seeing just a few mill laid out on loans to buy.

Like the one just gone.

Given Conte and Kane contractual positions, this was the window Levy should have gone big on a CB or whatever Conte said he wanted.

Because not convincing either or both has cost consequences far far greater than the 50 mill that would have cost.

Not my job to tell you who, but clearly leaving such an important acquisition till the summer (usually late August after the season has started of course) will not only have reduced our chances of success this season but also significantly increase the chance of the two most important people at the club deciding to walk.

I don't see the problem with loans. They're either used to get both clubs a better financial deal, or they give you a chance to assess a player before deciding whether he's a good fit.

 

[[email protected]]

Come on Trix, it's not that simple. I'm not disputing the fact that over the years we've seen a manager ask for something that hasn't been delivered - no argument from me or anyone else on that point.

This window you've specifically referenced a CB as being asked for - which is contrary to most other reports. It was widely reported a RWB and a forward were priorities for Jan , and while we'd explore any other opportunities that came up it was suggested a goalie and 2 CB's were far more realistic to be happen in the summer, not now.

So even if we believe you had the correct version of events and everyone else didn't , it's still not as simple as getting Conte a CB, it's getting Conte a CB that he thinks is of the requisite calibre to improve the first XI over the next few months, rather than wait until the summer (when they'd be a wider selection available).

Hence me asking if Hincapie is/was really that player ? Granted i don't spend my day trawling European transfers but apart from the Ukrainian kid who's gone to Bournemouth that was apparently on our 'up and coming CB's ' list along with Hincapie, i haven't seen any CB move who Conte would have wanted, nor have i seen any failed moves for CB's that we could have at least been in the running for.

You manage to make it sound like the need and search for a new CB has only been this January, so it’s completely unreasonable to expect one! Fuck me, 2 of our First Team CBs have been at the Club 10 years! Sanchez was bought in 2017! Successive managers have asked for upgrades ever since Verts and Alder were reaching the twilight of their careers. Jose wanted Skriniar, but got a cheap alternative in Rodon that he rarely played! Conte has wanted a new CB for 2 windows and 8 months!! And throughout all that time, you want to frame it as “well there’s been nobody available that’s of the requisite calibre”! Come on mate.
This failure to upgrade at CB has been a long time in the making. For me. Trix has already answered your question:
“But again, you say who is available right now? I'll counter that by saying Conte has gone through multiple windows now asking for a CB. So it's not who is available now, it's who could we have got in having 8 months of knowing this?
So we couldn't get one in the Summer, fine. So use the next 6 months to make sure you do get one at the next opportunity? Why have we waited till deadline day again to find out we can't get one again?
We needed a CB, we made that a priority, we didn't get one, we failed to add what we needed.
It boils down to this. The manager asked for a CB. We didn't get one.
How many windows have we seen a similar story unfold.”

That final sentence is damning.

 

[Scot-Spur]

From my understanding we did, but the ones we wanted didn't want to move - both Bastoni and Gvardiol had stated their reluctance to move (Bastoni due to love of club, Gvardiol due to upcoming WC) and Skriniar was seeing out his contract to move on a free. So we got Lenglet on loan.

It's very easy to say we need X,Y and Z - it's much more difficult to name an X,Y or Z who are available, who'd want to move to Spurs and who's transfer fee would be realistic not ridiculous.

And you can't use the argument that any player is available if you offer enough because if they are that good a player anyway, they'll almost certainly be sought after by other teams who have a far more established record of winning trophies and playing regular CL football.

The kid at Crystal Palace and Kilman at Wolves are players , who like Hincapie, we could probably get and afford imo, but they won't be that cheap (especially the Palace kid) and how good are they ? Not as good as the previously mentioned Gvardiol, Skriniar and Bastoni (although i believe this season he's not been good ?).

Maybe not top tier level, however they are a great deal better or have the potential to be a lot better than what we have just now. You can’t tell me we can’t identify a CB in world football that isn’t better or got the potential to surpass Davies or Dier pretty quickly.

 

[septicsac]

Its rather alarming that some people do not see the need for at least one CH and that it should be a priority. Never mind not addressing this for the past 2 windows, it as not been addressed since Jan and Toby left. First we had the big gamble on hoping Sanchez would "mature", well that didnt happen. We then took two players in Dier and Davies who were CH squad players at best, who couldnt budge Jan and Toby from their positions and decided promoting them to first team CH was the way to go...why? because it cost nothing to do this, Dier was failing as a midfielder and Davies hadnt got the legs for a starting LB or LWB.
Now it does not take a genius to know that any ideas that save money come from one place and it aint the manager.
Its welcoming to hear that CH was a priority, but also equally as alarming that Levy and Co were once again happy to risk not going all out to get one, we will likely pay the penalty in having no CL football next year and the savings will be zero.
It is clearly obvious from the reply to the Trust that Levy and Co are out of touch with the fanbase, with the team and with the manager, so no surprise they continue to act without the ambition required. I fail to see how anything will change or how anyone can expect any change unless there is a change at the very top, but we all know the most likely change will either be AC walking or Levy forcing him out and the wash, rinse and repeat cycle of another new manager becoming Levys next fallguy will happen once again.

 

[BENNO]

You manage to make it sound like the need and search for a new CB has only been this January, so it’s completely unreasonable to expect one! Fuck me, 2 of our First Team CBs have been at the Club 10 years! Sanchez was bought in 2017! Successive managers have asked for upgrades ever since Verts and Alder were reaching the twilight of their careers. Jose wanted Skriniar, but got a cheap alternative in Rodon that he rarely played! Conte has wanted a new CB for 2 windows and 8 months!! And throughout all that time, you want to frame it as “well there’s been nobody available that’s of the requisite calibre”! Come on mate.
This failure to upgrade at CB has been a long time in the making. For me. Trix has already answered your question:
“But again, you say who is available right now? I'll counter that by saying Conte has gone through multiple windows now asking for a CB. So it's not who is available now, it's who could we have got in having 8 months of knowing this?
So we couldn't get one in the Summer, fine. So use the next 6 months to make sure you do get one at the next opportunity? Why have we waited till deadline day again to find out we can't get one again?
We needed a CB, we made that a priority, we didn't get one, we failed to add what we needed.
It boils down to this. The manager asked for a CB. We didn't get one.
How many windows have we seen a similar story unfold.”

That final sentence is damning.

I can only go on facts, or at least facts as 'we' fans are able to see them. So again, give me a list of CB names that Conte has apparently asked for , and that we've failed to deliver ? What CB's have you seen widely reported in the press as being genuine Spurs targets, that we have failed to sign but who have then been sold elsewhere ?

I honestly can't remember any in the last 12 months other than the ones i mentioned. I cannot remember any stories of Conte being angry because we failed to sign player X. And if Conte was angry, we'd know about it.

It's all very well stating that ''the manager has asked for a CB but we didn't get one'' but unless you can specifically name the CB and show me exactly where Conte has apparently said this (either directly or leaking it through a journo that he's close to), then it's just your opinion not fact - or , more likely, the opinion of someone else on here who you choose to believe despite there being zero proof.

Maybe not top tier level, however they are a great deal better or have the potential to be a lot better than what we have just now. You can’t tell me we can’t identify a CB in world football that isn’t better or got the potential to surpass Davies or Dier pretty quickly.

I'll absolutely agree with you on this one, there must have been CB's out there who would become better than Dier or Davies in time that we could have signed. However, our manager isn't exactly famed for wanting young 'project' players (Djed Spence anyone ?) so to me, that indicates that he decided that he would rather wait for a more established CB to be available rather than bring one through - i watch every single press conference of his and at no point have i ever seen him blame a lack of defensive signings for our problems.

It must be remembered that Before his WC call up, Dier was playing really well and Lenglet had looked decent enough cover until this summer. I can specifically remember Conte praising Lenglet strongly in a video after the WC, when he talked about the players who'd stayed behind and improved during their training sessions.

 

[greavesy461]

For me it all stems from poor recruitment in the 19/20 and 20/21 seasons and obviously lack of recruitment in 18/19. That’s three terrible seasons! Ndombele, Lo Celso, Regi, Rodon, Clarke and to a lesser extent Bergwijn, as we more or less got our money back and he had a few good moments. Sess was also recruited in this period and he hasn’t kicked on as expected but is still young at 22 (amazingly).

I think we have the most expensive players out on loan than any premier league side. Our first team squad is pretty much the same size as Chelsea’s, excluding all the youth players. That’s scary.

I think some would have us rip these contracts up and just spend again to correct the mistake. The real world doesn’t work like that. Mistakes were made. Big ones. We are feeling the cost and it will take a few seasons to work our way through it as these players are progressively sold at discount prices or their contracts expire.

Hitchen lost his job for it and Paratici has come in. Since then recruitment has picked up but it takes time. Sadly we have a WC manager and striker that might be wasted and maybe it is worth a bit more of a risk to spend anyway but as I and others have said, I didn’t see many/any WC CBs move to other teams last summer or in January.

I’m sure it will be a big focus for this summer and fingers crossed H sees out his career at Spurs because I do think we are starting to build an impressive team again. COYS

 

[DenverSpur]

I got news of the death of a very good friend on Deadline Day and the next day news of the passing of another good friend. It’s been a tough week and it puts in perspective the huuha of the transfer window.

I suspect everyone’s had their say (multiple times for some?) on the transfer window but nevertheless I’m going to give my two penny’s worth.

I see the board sent a letter to the Spurs Trust complaining that they don’t get the credit for having spent 500M or something over the last few transfer windows. It shows how little they “get it”. Our complaints are not so much that they don’t spend money it’s more that there doesn’t appear to be any plan, short term or long term. It’s that we cannot see any real vision or commitment to the success of the team short term or long term. The truth is, at least on the football side of things which is our main reason for being, we are very poorly run club.

ENIC have been in charge for 23 years and they have one trophy and a new stadium to show for it. We‘ve been in a few semi finals, even a few final including the CL and competed for the title twice (without really looking like we would win in it) but still only the one trophy- The LeagueCup. Considering the trophies that the other Big 6 have won in that same period that is a pathetic return.

At the moment we sit in 5th place and just below us are Brighton and Brentford. Smaller clubs for sure but they are shining examples of how to run a football club successfully . Both clubs have a vision and plan for the short and long term. Everybody in the club is on the same page, all pulling in the same direction. In both clubs they already have a list of replacements for every player and the manager should they leave in the near future. Brentford have sold and replaced 3 CFs in nearly as many years without a drop off in goal production. It took, what 2 weeks, to replace Potter at Brighton with a manager who has almost seamlessly carried on from where he left off. They can do this because they have proper football people in charge who have set up an excellent scouting and analytics department and they are allowed to get on with it without too much interference from the board.

23 years ago when ENIC took us over those 2 clubs were in the doldrums. Brighton didn’t even have a Stadium. Their present owners, of both clubs, took over in 2009 and have brought them up the divisions to the PL, where they look like long term fixtures , as well as building themselves a new stadium.
So despite ENIC owning Tottenham for nearly twice as long as Brighton and Brentford’s owners, despite being a bigger club with bigger fan base and worldwide recognition we sit just above these 2 teams in the table. Fair doos to both of them but I’m sorry THFC board forget how much money you spent on transfers recently, forget how great our ne stadium is, What have you been doing the last 23 years that clubs like Brighton and Brentford are better run than us and taking in to consideration the different circumstance it can be argued are more successful than us.
I’ve little doubt that if either Bloom or Benham had taken over Tottenham 23 years ago we would have had a lot more trophies in the cabinet than we have now.

I can’t help feeling there is some irony in the fact that Brighton and Brentford are both owned by professional gamblers and while Joe Lewis is in effect a gambler he put Daniel Levy, an accountant, in charge of running Tottenham. If only Joe Lewis had injected some of his gambling nous into the running of Tottenham!!

Ok rant over.

 

[cliff jones]

I don't see the problem with loans. They're either used to get both clubs a better financial deal, or they give you a chance to assess a player before deciding whether he's a good fit.

I agree. But that wasn't my point. My point was about how the Club presents its spend and signings in creative ways.

 

[Kalim]

For me it's Levy time takes on a whole new connotation.......
Time for Levy to go.

An accountant running the club was an asset when we had to rebuild after Alan Sugar but is a liability when you want to invest in a team.

 

[vegassd]

I see the board sent a letter to the Spurs Trust complaining that they don’t get the credit for having spent 500M or something over the last few transfer windows. It shows how little they “get it”.

Firstly, I'm really sorry to hear about your friends. Definitely puts this football lark into perspective. Hope you're doing as well as can be expected.

Totally agree with you on the statement above. I think some fans are expecting a bit too much when it comes to these club statements, but I think this part of it (the repeat of the money spent) was a real sign to me that they don't properly understand the concerns of lots of us.

In many ways I think it's the real shame of seeing people use spending as a metric of success - be it fans online or pundits in the studio. It's an over-simplistic thing the analyse and is easy to brush aside. It's a fact that we have spent money recently, but it's also a fact that we aren't performing to the level we want to.

I’ve little doubt that if either Bloom or Benham had taken over Tottenham 23 years ago we would have had a lot more trophies in the cabinet than we have now.

I can’t help feeling there is some irony in the fact that Brighton and Brentford are both owned by professional gamblers and while Joe Lewis is in effect a gambler he put Daniel Levy, an accountant, in charge of running Tottenham. If only Joe Lewis had injected some of his gambling nous into the running of Tottenham!!

I don't so much agree with this sentiment. I would say a key symptom of gambling is that you have winners and losers... and the losers make up the lion's share of those. So whilst Brighton and Brentford are both flying high right now, and they both seem to be sticking to a strategy, I'm sure you could find other clubs who started with similar circumstances, took similar decisions, and have stayed in the same place or regressed. Cherry picking those two doesn't unearth the true problems at Spurs I reckon.

It's also one thing to climb the league/s and other to convert that into trophy wins. Can these clubs afford to keep their best players? Can they attract players of the required calibre? We could view Brighton as a Jol-era Spurs who have moved themselves into a position where they are financially outgunned... and they have the added complications of City, Newcastle and us to deal with too!

I do think the "gambling nous" is fairly apt and is what I would personally be looking for in the next couple of years. Trying to time the spending to get the best results, and I do worry that ENIC/Levy aren't prepared for that stage. A lot probably hangs on Conte's future.

 

[tommyt]

I'll answer your question by saying it's all completely irrelevant.

It boils down to this. The manager asked for a CB. We didn't get one.

How many windows have we seen a similar story unfold.

Well, I'm hoping for a busy and productive June. I fear if we are still fucking about after preseason starts that we could be a manager short and looking for a new striker.