Next Manager Watch

wishkah said:

does the poch talk have substance or is it based off singing at the game. I’d appreciate not reading 40 pages to figure out if someone can answer

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We don’t know.

Now it's Spursonal said:

What Poch probably lacks is an elite tactical mind where he’s able to tweak tactics in game to adjust the outcome. For example I can remember the constant complaints about his lack of substitutes etc. And also despite having the best 11 in the league at the time imo, still losing a lot to the more elite tactical managers.

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In the 16/17 Spurs made 3rd most subs in the league, we also had 4 points against Guardiola's City, 4 points against Wenger's Arsenal, 3 points against Conte's Chelsea with the better goal difference and ending their run of 13 wins in the row, 3 points against Mourinho's United with the same goal difference and 1 point against Klopp's Liverpool.
Between big6 in 15/16 and 16/17 when we can say we had the best 11 in the league, only Liverpool had better results than Spurs against each other.
So not really, we didn't lose a lot to the more elite tactical managers

Darth Vega said:

Allegri made a substitution at 0-1 down in the 2nd leg and the entire game changed and they scored two gaols within about five minutes. I was there and it was immediately apparent something had shifted and we didn't react quick enough and that was the game done.

It doesn't really matter too much - I'm not saying Poch shouldn't come back because he didn't react to one specific substitution in one game, that would be ridiculous - but he got outwitted that day. Poch rarely made in-game changes to adapt. For all the complaining we've had this season of Conte being stubborn with his substitutions, Poch was exactly the same.

Poch is very much a disciple of Bielsa in that respect. There's Plan A and then when that doesn't work there's Plan B, which is do Plan A but even harder.

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yeah that's a very accurate depiction of that game. He had no answers and got shown up by a more tactically astute manager

wishkah said:

does the poch talk have substance or is it based off singing at the game. I’d appreciate not reading 40 pages to figure out if someone can answer

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Singing at the home game

wishkah said:

does the poch talk have substance or is it based off singing at the game. I’d appreciate not reading 40 pages to figure out if someone can answer

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Nothing imminent, but not ruled out.

fletch82 said:

A different manager with a different and positive approach can completely transform average looking players.
Look at xakha at arse 2 years ago he was seen as a liability and goonies wanted him out of the club now he is having probably his best season for them.
We need to get this appointment right and I doubt very much poch is the answer.
It feels like a heart over head thing to me.

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Tuchel taking over Lampard. Took them from 9th to top 4 and CL winners in just 4 months, using the exact same squad of players. Our current squad is not devoid of ability and talent, they are just absolutely bereft of confidence and have been coached to not play. Mourinho, Nuno and Conte have had them set up to sit off and not play with the ball, just inviting wave after wave of attacks on the hope Kane & Son could conjure up a winner. You sit under that much pressure for any length of time and mistakes are inevitable. Watch them with the ball and they look like rabbits in the headlights, afraid to move of make a bold play because they have been coached specifically not to, almost looks like they are afraid of what Conte would do or say to them.
Just needs someone to come in and take the shackles off, get them playing with more bravery, but actually working on it during the week, how to find and exploit space with the ball. You have more possession, you should restrict the amount of pressure your defence comes under.
Look at Kulusevski when he first came, bold, made things happen, being praised. Now playing very within himself. Last year we played Brighton, Bissouma bossed our midfield virtually on his own through a mix of athleticism and technical quality on the ball, but this year he’s barely had a look in, and when he has he’s been largely uninspiring. Same player, but had the bravery coached out him. Who even knows what’s happened to Son this year. I look at our deficiencies at LWB, and Reguillon really was a step up, rash occasionally yes, but bought a real energy, quite often braking into the box to square the ball or get on the end of a sweeping move, but marginalised by Conte and shipped out, leaving us with an injury prone Sessegnon (who still needs developing, not hanging out to dry) and Perisic who looks lost defensively.
A change of coach can extract so much more out of this bunch than we are currently seeing, but keeping Conte’s team in charge will not change anything and we’ll just coast on through the next 8 games being dull, uninspiring and error ridden as any slither of passion and confidence ebbs away. Mason would have been a far better option than Stellini, if you’ve listened to the High Performance podcast with him, he just sounds like he would have tried to lift things up and given players freedom.

wishkah said:

does the poch talk have substance or is it based off singing at the game. I’d appreciate not reading 40 pages to figure out if someone can answer

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C'mon mate, due diligence cannot be overlooked. Get reading.

Hotspur88 said:

As much as I love Poch, people easily forget the last year he was in charge. I'm telling you now, the place was toxic towards the end. Many of those players are still at the club and I think we need a completely new manager in, a different voice. All three managers I mentioned play attacking football, it's not only Poch who plays this kind of football. Add to this how stubborn Poch was over transfers and some very good players we missed out on because of that. I'll say it again, I love Poch, but then weighing everything up, I don't think now is the time for him to return. Maybe in 5-10 years when we have a completely different playing staff and the club has hopefully progressed further. Not everyone will agree with me thinking a Poch return now isn't the best move and that's natural, I may be completely wrong and his return could be brilliant, I just personally feel one of the managers I mentioned should be who we are pushing for.

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Eriksen and Toby (who were refusing to sign new contacts) are gone. Rose and Vertonghen have also gone.

The players who are still here from his time are:

Kane (I thought he loved Poch)
Son (nor aware of any animosity with Poch)
Dier (Ditto)
Lloris (surely he will be released)
Davies (quite and professional)
Davinson (???)
Lucas (will be leaving this summer)

I can't think of any remaining players who Poch would have a grudge against.

Winks (does he have a future at Spurs?)
Ndombele (ditto)
Lo Celso (ditto)

Poch would have many new players to work with or dispose:

Kulu
Richarlison
Bentancur
Romero
Bissouma
Hoibjerg
Skipp
Udogie
Porro
Royal
Perisic
Sarr

chrisd2k said:

The Shelf Bar you say? That changes everything

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No, it changes nothing. Just adding to the conversation and even mentioned that it wasn't representative..... Prick.

Hotspur88 said:

As much as I love Poch, people easily forget the last year he was in charge. I'm telling you now, the place was toxic towards the end. Many of those players are still at the club and I think we need a completely new manager in, a different voice. All three managers I mentioned play attacking football, it's not only Poch who plays this kind of football. Add to this how stubborn Poch was over transfers and some very good players we missed out on because of that. I'll say it again, I love Poch, but then weighing everything up, I don't think now is the time for him to return. Maybe in 5-10 years when we have a completely different playing staff and the club has hopefully progressed further. Not everyone will agree with me thinking a Poch return now isn't the best move and that's natural, I may be completely wrong and his return could be brilliant, I just personally feel one of the managers I mentioned should be who we are pushing for.

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Who? Who are these players who will be issues if Poch comes back but not if we have another manager?

Kane and Son? They’re our best players and we’d lucky to have both next season regardless.

Davies and Dier? Shouldn’t be more than squad options at best regardless of who comes in.

Sanchez, Hugo and Moura? Need to be moved on/be emergency backups only regardless of who comes in.

I don’t see what the Poch specific issue is. We make exactly the same squad management decisions regardless of whether it’s Poch or someone else when it comes to the players who used to be here under him.

wishkah said:

does the poch talk have substance or is it based off singing at the game. I’d appreciate not reading 40 pages to figure out if someone can answer

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Lots of varying ITK on him, one says he’s very keen on, and likely to go to, RM (which I think is most probable), some say he really wants to come here but we have no interest and an other has said he’s on the list but unlikely. I don’t think anyone has said he’s a probable option for us but it does seem to be ether we don’t want him or keeping him as a back up option.

Tbh the most concert info we have seen is Perez posting a picture of his laptop screens and on it were an article about us. Doesn’t really mean anything major, but obviously suggests Poch, or at least his team, are keeping tabs on us. If you pardon the pun.

wishkah said:

does the poch talk have substance or is it based off singing at the game. I’d appreciate not reading 40 pages to figure out if someone can answer

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Whatever it was the previous 15 times, it's the same now.

Poch is the wrong answer for now. He knows it, and in our hearts we know it too.

The club needs somebody with absolutely no skin in the game. Somebody completely unburdened by the past, and with an objective approach to everything. Somebody who can easily imagine the future and what it might look like. That can’t be Poch right now.

To those wanting to speed up his return, believe me: there will be another crisis for Poch to return and save the day.

zepstar said:

Poch is the wrong answer for now. He knows it, and in our hearts we know it too.

The club needs somebody with absolutely no skin in the game. Somebody completely unburdened by the past, and with an objective approach to everything. Somebody who can easily imagine the future and what it might look like. That can’t be Poch right now.

To those wanting to speed up his return, believe me: there will be another crisis for Poch to return and save the day.

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Pam Ayres.

I'd be more than happy to see Poch back now for another punt at it, if for no other reason than I'd love him back one day, and he'd clearly want to be back one day, but I don't think that the stars are going to align in another 5-10 years time.

He'll be at a different level, or we will, or he'll be in a job, or we won't need a manager when he isn't.

Right now, we're at the right level, he's free, and we probably both need a bit of what we can provide to each other.

Would be a travesty imo if he never came back before he retires, and we may not get another opportunity.

That, and he's just a very good coach anyway.

GetSpurredOn said:

Tuchel taking over Lampard. Took them from 9th to top 4 and CL winners in just 4 months, using the exact same squad of players. Our current squad is not devoid of ability and talent, they are just absolutely shot on confidence and have been coached to not play. Mourinho, Nuno and Conte have had them set up to sit off and not play with the ball, just inviting wave after wave of attacks. You sit under that much pressure for any length of time, mistakes are inevitable. Watch them with the ball and they look like rabbits in the headlights, afraid to move of make a bold play because they have been coached specifically not to. Just needs someone to come in and take the shackles off, get them playing with more bravery, but actually working on it during the week, how to find and exploit space with the ball. You have more possession, you should restrict the amount of pressure your defence comes under.
Look at Kulusevski when he first came, bold, made things happen, being praised. Now playing very within himself. Last year we played Brighton, Bissouma bossed our midfield virtually on his own, this year he’s barely had a look in, and when he has he’s been largely uninspiring. Same player, but had the bravery coached out him. Who even knows what’s happened to Son.
A change of coach can extract more out of this bunch than we are currently seeing, but keeping Conte’s team in charge will not change anything.

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Yeah - to say our squad is broken is to assume a new manager can't get anything more at all out of the players who have looked shite under Conte.

Compared to how they've looked this season, I'd amazed if a new manager can't get a lot more from Bissouma, Richarlison, Son and Kulusevski. At their best all of those players would comfortably get into teams currently playing a lot better than us like Newcastle and Brighton and would get a fair few minutes at United/Arsenal too.

I also think we've barely scratched the surface with Sarr, Porro, Spence, Gil and, for obvious reasons, Udogie. Probably Skipp too given how hard it must be to play outnumbered in a midfield 2 every single game.

There's also the possibility that a new manager can get more out of a returning player we've all written off like Reguilon or Lo Celso. Probably not, but much stranger things have happened in football.

The defence and keeper are a serious concern and we badly lack creativity, but, fingers crossed, the new manager will be given some money to spend on those areas in the summer.

As I've said previously, I wouldn't be against Poch coming back at some point but if it was to happen then I'd want and expect PochBall on steroids. 100% all in, aggressive, urgent, furious, suffocating, in the oppositions faces. Press, press, press a bit more, and the flowing football and tempo of our ball work always came on the back of what we did out of possession.

Fans, and Poch himself maybe, can piss and moan about "he wasn't backed!!!!" , but the overwhelming reason why it went wrong was that when the team couldn't or wouldn't press any more and hold the high standards of off the ball work we saw previously he didn't know what to do about it. The show was kept on the road enough to sneak some top four finishes still, we had the freaky/fluky cup run in the CL, but at the base level we never got close to restoring any standards to our play.

For anyone who says oh he could adapt.... I watched at least a dozen of his PSG games, and every one was a bit of a shambles tbh. Compromise to the max. where the rest of the team was set up to carry the three forwards, really disjointed and just winging it on individual talent, and Poch always looking a bit miserable and like he was going through the motions on the touchline. I don't want that thanks.

But yeah, tough decisions would have to be made at the top of the pitch for starters if you had any hope of instilling his brand of energy and football. Who'd have the bollocks to do it?

I've seen so many posts saying Conte, Jose and even Poch's style of football is outdated.
I'm just watching a Roy Hodgson pre match interview lol.

slartibartfast said:

I've seen so many posts saying Conte, Jose and even Poch's style of football is outdated.
I'm just watching a Roy Hodgson pre match interview lol.

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I'm at a loss with that kind of thing. Were Ranieri's tactics contemporary when Leicester won the title? I've no idea but they certainly worked for that period of time.

Hotspur88 said:

As much as I love Poch, people easily forget the last year he was in charge. I'm telling you now, the place was toxic towards the end. Many of those players are still at the club and I think we need a completely new manager in, a different voice. All three managers I mentioned play attacking football, it's not only Poch who plays this kind of football. Add to this how stubborn Poch was over transfers and some very good players we missed out on because of that. I'll say it again, I love Poch, but then weighing everything up, I don't think now is the time for him to return. Maybe in 5-10 years when we have a completely different playing staff and the club has hopefully progressed further. Not everyone will agree with me thinking a Poch return now isn't the best move and that's natural, I may be completely wrong and his return could be brilliant, I just personally feel one of the managers I mentioned should be who we are pushing for.

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Maybe employing him will rectify that situation