A Change in Formation?

[Larryjanta]

When we don't have the ball, it's clearly a 4-2-3-1. When we do, it evolves and shifts into whatever the fuck we want it to. This is 4-2-3-1, and this is modern football. Do not judge a formation by unsuccessful attempts at playing it.

I can't agree with this either I'm afraid. When we lose the ball, we seem to pack the midfield with either he attacking CM or one of the wider players tucking in to make a three man midfield with Dier anchoring. To call it a 4-2-3-1, we'd expect Dier to only patrol one side of the pitch when we don't have the ball which just isn't the case - he covers the full width, which he'd only do in a 4-3-3 4-4-2 diamond.

It certainly is modern football and, as I said in my first post, I think trying to pigeon-hole it into a formation is incorrect

 

[14/04/91]

How will Bentaleb (our best midfielder in last two seasons) and Chadli get back in the team ?

If we carry on like this, or even continue to improve, they won't get back in as regular first choices.

 

[Yid-ol]

How will Bentaleb (our best midfielder in last two seasons) and Chadli get back in the team ?

With the amount of cards we are picking up they will get a chance! And also cup games. But it will be hard. Good squad players to have to rotate though.

 

[mpickard2087]

I think the foundations are 4-2-3-1, but we morph into more of a 4-1-4-1 (or even 4-1-3-2, with Alli pushing up to make a second striker) when we are attacking. If we lose the ball that leaves Dier anchoring and patrolling across the whole pitch to cut out the counter attacks, and then if the opposition does keep the ball for a spell and we are forced to drop in behind the ball then we settle back in to 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

I can't agree with this either I'm afraid. When we lose the ball, we seem to pack the midfield with either he attacking CM or one of the wider players tucking in to make a three man midfield with Dier anchoring. To call it a 4-2-3-1, we'd expect Dier to only patrol one side of the pitch when we don't have the ball which just isn't the case - he covers the full width, which he'd only do in a 4-3-3 4-4-2 diamond.

It certainly is modern football and, as I said in my first post, I think trying to pigeon-hole it into a formation is incorrect

I think you just think very little of 4-2-3-1, and if it's working try to pigeon hole another formation in instead. How come it's okay for a 4-3-3 to be flexible but not a 4-2-3-1? In no formation do the players stick rigidly in line - even in a 4-4-2 we see full backs overlapping and wingers running ahead of strikers etc. You need to get this idea out of your head that 4-2-3-1 is a rigid formation where the two central midfielders sit and patrol one side of the pitch each. That is one way to approach the formation. What we are seeing from our side is another - yes Dier sits more than his partner. Yes we are seeing the most central of the three drop deep to pick the ball up a lot. But this is just a successful 4-2-3-1.

 

[faze_coys]

I like how Dembele and Ali have been fluid in their positions and can easily rotate and fill in for each other, while Dier keeps his position. Causes all kinds of problems for the opposition, kinda resembles a 4-3-3 in the central areas

 

[Larryjanta]

I think you just think very little of 4-2-3-1, and if it's working try to pigeon hole another formation in instead. How come it's okay for a 4-3-3 to be flexible but not a 4-2-3-1? In no formation do the players stick rigidly in line - even in a 4-4-2 we see full backs overlapping and wingers running ahead of strikers etc. You need to get this idea out of your head that 4-2-3-1 is a rigid formation where the two central midfielders sit and patrol one side of the pitch each. That is one way to approach the formation. What we are seeing from our side is another - yes Dier sits more than his partner. Yes we are seeing the most central of the three drop deep to pick the ball up a lot. But this is just a successful 4-2-3-1.

We have 3 central midfielders, the question is whether, on the whole, they look more like this:

.....................Player1...................Player2............................

....................................Player3.............................................

Or like this:

....................................Player1.............................................

.....................Player2...................Player3............................

For me, it's clearly the second and would suggest it's more a 4-4-2/4-3-3 than a 4-2-3-1.

you could make a compelling case that we are actually playing a 2-1-4-2-1...

It's a nonsense argument anyway, we're playing well and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest what formation Poch considered us to be playing with. Essentially, for me, each player has a role, it's not defined solely by a rigid position on the pitch but a series of actions and responsibilities each has to perform during the game.

Poch did say he was experimenting with a different formation to what he used last season which was a much more rigid 4-2-3-1 for me.

It just looks, to me, like we have a much more defined CM that doesn't look anything like it did last season

 

[spids]

When we have the ball we sometimes shift to a 3-3-3-1...

Kane
Eriksen Alli Son
Rose Demebele Walker
Verts Dier Alderweireld​

 

[nedley]

I don't know what it is. But I fucking loves it.

 

[thinktank]

I don't know what it is. But I fucking loves it.

It's 4231.

 

[Mr Pink]

I think the foundations are 4-2-3-1, but we morph into more of a 4-1-4-1 (or even 4-1-3-2, with Alli pushing up to make a second striker) when we are attacking. If we lose the ball that leaves Dier anchoring and patrolling across the whole pitch to cut out the counter attacks, and then if the opposition does keep the ball for a spell and we are forced to drop in behind the ball then we settle back in to 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1.

That's the most accurate description IMO.

 

[Larryjanta]

I like how Dembele and Ali have been fluid in their positions and can easily rotate and fill in for each other, while Dier keeps his position. Causes all kinds of problems for the opposition, kinda resembles a 4-3-3 in the central areas

Because it is ;-)

 

[JerryGarcia]

Now that we're ticking along nicely it's clear as day the difference between AVB's formation and Poch's version. There were people saying they were too similar when Poch first joined but looking back it's almost as if AVB didn't fully grasp his own tactics or maybe didn't have Poch's ability to make the squad believe in him. I liked AVB and don't wish to start a debate over him but seeing how we're playing now shows just how good Pochettino is in comparison.

Poch had the vision to get the right players for his system, the high line isn't suicidal anymore like it was with Dawson, and we're able to pass the ball forward at will. It used to be such a struggle for the midfield to find a forward pass that Tim Sherwood was able to improve our fortunes in front of goal!

I don't care if you call it 4-2-3-1, "Diamond 4-4-2/4-3-3 Hybrid", reverse Christmas tree or reverse cowgirl. It's working and long may it continue.