Best attacking performance without Eriksen of the past 8 years?

[SUIYHA]

Was discussing this last night with a mate how badly we miss him. I genuinely can't think of any that stand out. Sure, there have been a few flashes of brilliance, often inspired by Bale or Son running through teams, or Kane picking out a world class finish. But how many times since Modric and Van Der Vaart left, have we really turned on the style, taken the game to the opposition and played crisp, passing football, without Eriksen in the side? I know he was first choice for a long time and rarely got injured, but in the season before he joined, the season he left, and all the games he missed whilst here either through injury, squad rotation or even just starting on the bench, you'd think there might be a few examples of us being able to cope without him?

I've re-watched some old highlights in the last couple of weeks since the season ended, some of the passing Eriksen did was ridiculously good - not just for direct assists but in creating attacking situations for his team mates. I look at our side now and wonder, even if Hojbjerg supposedly "frees up" Lo Celso and Ndombele, who is going to do that kind of thing for us again? Most of our goals seem to come from us hitting teams on the counter when they've pushed their defence up, long balls over the top, individual mistakes from the opposition, or moments of quick footwork from one of our star players to manouvre a bit of space and get a shot away from a difficult position. There are far fewer examples of eye of the needle passes or multiple quick passes in a build-up to open teams up, nor many examples of us being able to sustain attacking dominance over a period of time. I'm not expecting us to be Bayern Munich, but watching them the other night I have to wonder if I could ever imagine our current squad creating so many chances even against one of the newly promoted sides, let alone a Barcelona.

Mourinho sides have been famous for being well organised defensively. But all of the successful ones have had a top class attacking playmaker who can really hurt the opposition, even when up against an organised defence of their own. Real had Ozil, Chelsea had Lampard and then Fabregas, Inter had Sneijder, Porto had Deco. Who currently plays this role for us? Lo Celso appears to be better deployed from deep and Alli appears to be better running in behind, unless Ndombele steps up we have a gaping hole in our attacking unit as far as I'm concerned. Worryingly, AM seems to be fairly low down the priority list of signings if transfer rumours are to be believed, and whilst we clearly need improvements at full-back and someone to take the burden off Kane, I really think this is a position that we should be prioritising more than we appear to be.

To answer the original point - best we could come up with was beating Leicester 6-1 on the final day in 2017, which was great but it was a final day game so not much to take from it. Other than that, maybe the first half against West Ham last season? Hardly top class opposition though. Any others people can think of?

 

[Legacy]

Tottenham 5-0 Burnley?

 

[C0YS]

I think it's hard for any particular match to stand out because the request is so specific.

 

[SUIYHA]

Tottenham 5-0 Burnley?

That kind of illustrates my point. A good attacking display overall, but the first four goals were all because of individual brilliance from Kane and Son creating goals for themselves out of nothing, as opposed to effective team build-up play.

Watch this again for an example of what I mean

 

[C0YS]

Ok, I'm looking through his games, and one major thing sticks out. Eriksen doesn't get injured. There only 5 or so games a season he misses, and maybe there are only 4-5 or five great attacking performances a year too, so it is very hard for these things to align. It's only this season really.

5-0 red star
Monaco 4-1?

and a few 4-0 in his first season.

I think it's too early to say it's an issue. Like, since he has been here he has played the vast majority of games. He is a remarkably fit player. Under Poch he has missed a total of 10 games thanks to injury. Ok he might have been rested a few times, but it's a very small number of games.

 

[C0YS]

Firstly, you seem to have a very specific view of what a team attacking performance is. The Redknapp team in particular, was super entertaining, because of the naive kick about fearless approach we had. We don't have the players to play that way, and if we did play that way, we wouldn't have been as successful.

OK lets actually look at the games he has missed. I'm not going to count this season, because with or without eriksen there hasn't been that much fluidity this season.

18/19 CL and PL
Palace 1-0 W
Cardiff 1-0 W
Huddersfield 2-0 W
Barca 2-4 L
Cups
Watford D (won on pens)
Tranmere 7-0 W
Palace 2-0 L

17/18 CL PL
APOEL x2 W W 3-0
Southampton D 1-1
Cups
Wimbledon W 3-0
Newport D 1-1
Rochdale x2 D W 2-2 6-1
Barnsley W 1-0

16/17 CL PL
Sunderland W 1-0
Leicester W 6-1
Cups
Villa W 2-0
Wycombe W 4-3
Liverpool L 2-1

15/16 PL
Leicester D 1-1
Everton D 0-0
Sunderland W 1-0
Cups
Qarabag W 3-1
Monaco W 4-1
Dortmund L 2-1

14/15 PL
-
Cups
Limassol x2 W W 2-1 3-0
Partizan x2 D W 0-0 1-0
Besiktas x2 D L 1-1 0-1
Burnley W 4-2
Forest W 3-1
Brighton W 2-0

I'm not doing the last season, as Eriksen was in and out of that squad. But the Newcastle 4-0 sticks out as a good performance. I'm not going to comment, but could help with discussion.

 

[Haddock]

Whilst I agree with the overall sentiment - Eriksen was (is) a fantastic player and we miss his playmaking - you can look at Liverpool this season and I wouldn't say that they have a designated playmaker.

Liverpool seem to thrive on their insane pressing and aggression, their pace and their trickery. So I wouldn't say a good team is solely defined on a a playmaker.

Anyway. Mourinho is obviously angling to make us a less possession based team and a more aggressive and direct team. An Eriksen type of player could still be an effective player in that system but I wouldn't say it's the most important position. IMHO.

 

[Shadydan]

Sample size is too small, Eriksen was the heartbeat of our team over the last 6 years, you're not going to get too many good performances over that period when he wasn't in the team as he was a key player, last season we were a mess in general.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Was discussing this last night with a mate how badly we miss him. I genuinely can't think of any that stand out. Sure, there have been a few flashes of brilliance, often inspired by Bale or Son running through teams, or Kane picking out a world class finish. But how many times since Modric and Van Der Vaart left, have we really turned on the style, taken the game to the opposition and played crisp, passing football, without Eriksen in the side? I know he was first choice for a long time and rarely got injured, but in the season before he joined, the season he left, and all the games he missed whilst here either through injury, squad rotation or even just starting on the bench, you'd think there might be a few examples of us being able to cope without him?

I've re-watched some old highlights in the last couple of weeks since the season ended, some of the passing Eriksen did was ridiculously good - not just for direct assists but in creating attacking situations for his team mates. I look at our side now and wonder, even if Hojbjerg supposedly "frees up" Lo Celso and Ndombele, who is going to do that kind of thing for us again? Most of our goals seem to come from us hitting teams on the counter when they've pushed their defence up, long balls over the top, individual mistakes from the opposition, or moments of quick footwork from one of our star players to manouvre a bit of space and get a shot away from a difficult position. There are far fewer examples of eye of the needle passes or multiple quick passes in a build-up to open teams up, nor many examples of us being able to sustain attacking dominance over a period of time. I'm not expecting us to be Bayern Munich, but watching them the other night I have to wonder if I could ever imagine our current squad creating so many chances even against one of the newly promoted sides, let alone a Barcelona.

Mourinho sides have been famous for being well organised defensively. But all of the successful ones have had a top class attacking playmaker who can really hurt the opposition, even when up against an organised defence of their own. Real had Ozil, Chelsea had Lampard and then Fabregas, Inter had Sneijder, Porto had Deco. Who currently plays this role for us? Lo Celso appears to be better deployed from deep and Alli appears to be better running in behind, unless Ndombele steps up we have a gaping hole in our attacking unit as far as I'm concerned. Worryingly, AM seems to be fairly low down the priority list of signings if transfer rumours are to be believed, and whilst we clearly need improvements at full-back and someone to take the burden off Kane, I really think this is a position that we should be prioritising more than we appear to be.

To answer the original point - best we could come up with was beating Leicester 6-1 on the final day in 2017, which was great but it was a final day game so not much to take from it. Other than that, maybe the first half against West Ham last season? Hardly top class opposition though. Any others people can think of?

When did Redknapp leave? We had some amazing attacking performances under him with Modric, Bale, Lennon, VDV, Crouch, Defoe etc.

At times that Redknapp 4-4-1-1 was probably the most exciting spurs team i've watched, pure pace and directness, Poch's peak teams were also great to watch but in a different more intense and methodical way.

But yes of course we miss Eriksen, he was world class on his day (of which he had many).

Lo Celso is not the same player so we still need to properly replace him or change the style of the way we play.,

 

[RikkiRocket]

“I ain’t missing you at all”

 

[TheSpillage]

Erik-sen-sen!
Our lost number 23
Erik-sen-sen!
Was a Yid like you and me
To the left
To the right
I recall that dynamite.
Now he plays for Inter Milan
He’s makes Lo Celso, Ndombele, Winks, Sissoko, Skipp and Dier (when he plays in midfield) look shite

 

[jamesc0le]

eriksen was hardly ever rested/ dropped and was hardly ever injured due to the way he looks after himself and approaches playing.

 

[DanNolan]

watching that video i forgot how good lamela was in the Leicester season. Also how great was dele on the counter! he could thrive in our new system this year if he stays fit. Eriksen is a huge loss but with the right players behind him i do see GLC improving that side of his game

 

[spids]

I agree with the OP and posted similar in the Winks thread. In a 4-2-3-1 I think Jose is looking to line up something like this:

Lloris
NewRB Toby/Sanchez Dier Davies
Højbjerg LoCelso
Moura/Bergwijn CAM Son
Kane
​

Of the runners and riders for the CAM:

LoCelso (if Winks or Ndombele partner Højbjerg). But I personally think Lo Celso is a better #8 than a #10, and is also a grafter who is not scored to put his foot in. He also does not seem to be as prolific as a top class #10 should be either.

Ndombele. He is more suited to playing in a deeper role alongside Højbjerg, but I do not think Mourinho will trust him in that role as he is not disciplined enough out of possession That is Ndombele's big challenge - show Jose that he can be trusted positionally to partner Højbjerg.

Winks. Definitely more of a #8 than a #4, where he is fairly naive defensively. If he can get back to the form he showed away at Real Madrid then we'll have a real asset. However, I see him competing with Ndombele and Lo Celso for the #8 role alongside Højbjerg rather than being a #10. His shooting and creativity is not up to a #10.

Dele. Dele has the goal and assist output and needs to play somewhere across the attacking midfield/wide forward positions. He is better as a second striker making diagonal runs from a wide starting position than a creative #10. If he played there he'd need to move the ball a lot quicker and forget the nutmegs and flicks.

Lamela. Probably his best position but does not offer goals or assists to be first choice #10 and is too often injured. Much better as an impact sub across any of the advanced midfield positions as he always adds intensity and aggression in cameo performances and is tactically very aware.

The team above is crying out for a peak years Eriksen or a Coutinho type player. Deadly shooting boots and set pieces, defence unlocking passing.

 

[SUIYHA]

Whilst I agree with the overall sentiment - Eriksen was (is) a fantastic player and we miss his playmaking - you can look at Liverpool this season and I wouldn't say that they have a designated playmaker.

Liverpool seem to thrive on their insane pressing and aggression, their pace and their trickery. So I wouldn't say a good team is solely defined on a a playmaker.

Anyway. Mourinho is obviously angling to make us a less possession based team and a more aggressive and direct team. An Eriksen type of player could still be an effective player in that system but I wouldn't say it's the most important position. IMHO.

Couple of points on Liverpool's case:

1. They don't play with a "dedicated" playmaker in midfield but all of their players can pass and move the ball quickly to a highly competent degree
2. So much of their playmaking ability comes from full-backs that get high up the pitch and can pick out a lethal pass - you could put Alexander-Arnold in an attacking midfield role at Spurs and he'd do a better job of replacing Eriksen than most of our attempts have done thus far.
3. They also actually don't score as many goals as you might expect. A solid number for sure, but not as many as Man City or as many as they used to score under Rodgers. They used to be far more free-flowing when they actually had a proper playmaker, Coutinho, in the side.
4. They are literally trying to address this by sniffing around Thiago.

And as for Mourinho - he has never had success anywhere without an Eriksen type player thriving in midfield.

Sample size is too small, Eriksen was the heartbeat of our team over the last 6 years, you're not going to get too many good performances over that period when he wasn't in the team as he was a key player, last season we were a mess in general.

We've had some brilliant performances without Kane. Brilliant performances without Alli. And Vertonghen. And Toby. And Lloris. But not Eriksen. Over an eight year period, I'd like to think that there might be a few either before or after he signed, where he was injured, rested, suspended, or even just on the bench. But they're really hard to think of.

Firstly, you seem to have a very specific view of what a team attacking performance is. The Redknapp team in particular, was super entertaining, because of the naive kick about fearless approach we had. We don't have the players to play that way, and if we did play that way, we wouldn't have been as successful.

OK lets actually look at the games he has missed. I'm not going to count this season, because with or without eriksen there hasn't been that much fluidity this season.

18/19 CL and PL
Palace 1-0 W
Cardiff 1-0 W
Huddersfield 2-0 W
Barca 2-4 L
Cups
Watford D (won on pens)
Tranmere 7-0 W
Palace 2-0 L

17/18 CL PL
APOEL x2 W W 3-0
Southampton D 1-1
Cups
Wimbledon W 3-0
Newport D 1-1
Rochdale x2 D W 2-2 6-1
Barnsley W 1-0

16/17 CL PL
Sunderland W 1-0
Leicester W 6-1
Cups
Villa W 2-0
Wycombe W 4-3
Liverpool L 2-1

15/16 PL
Leicester D 1-1
Everton D 0-0
Sunderland W 1-0
Cups
Qarabag W 3-1
Monaco W 4-1
Dortmund L 2-1

14/15 PL
-
Cups
Limassol x2 W W 2-1 3-0
Partizan x2 D W 0-0 1-0
Besiktas x2 D L 1-1 0-1
Burnley W 4-2
Forest W 3-1
Brighton W 2-0

I'm not doing the last season, as Eriksen was in and out of that squad. But the Newcastle 4-0 sticks out as a good performance. I'm not going to comment, but could help with discussion.

Thanks for sorting the list - though I don't remember beating Newcastle 4-0?

To be clear on the point - I mean attacking displays whereby the team as a unit are moving the ball around well, opening the opposition up and creating a high number of big chances. Basically - a high xG!

 

[SUIYHA]

I agree with the OP and posted similar in the Winks thread. In a 4-2-3-1 I think Jose is looking to line up something like this:

Lloris
NewRB Toby/Sanchez Dier Davies
Højbjerg LoCelso
Moura/Bergwijn CAM Son
Kane
​

Of the runners and riders for the CAM:

LoCelso (if Winks or Ndombele partner Højbjerg). But I personally think Lo Celso is a better #8 than a #10, and is also a grafter who is not scored to put his foot in. He also does not seem to be as prolific as a top class #10 should be either.

Ndombele. He is more suited to playing in a deeper role alongside Højbjerg, but I do not think Mourinho will trust him in that role as he is not disciplined enough out of possession That is Ndombele's big challenge - show Jose that he can be trusted positionally to partner Højbjerg.

Winks. Definitely more of a #8 than a #4, where he is fairly naive defensively. If he can get back to the form he showed away at Real Madrid then we'll have a real asset. However, I see him competing with Ndombele and Lo Celso for the #8 role alongside Højbjerg rather than being a #10. His shooting and creativity is not up to a #10.

Dele. Dele has the goal and assist output and needs to play somewhere across the attacking midfield/wide forward positions. He is better as a second striker making diagonal runs from a wide starting position than a creative #10. If he played there he'd need to move the ball a lot quicker and forget the nutmegs and flicks.

Lamela. Probably his best position but does not offer goals or assists to be first choice #10 and is too often injured. Much better as an impact sub across any of the advanced midfield positions as he always adds intensity and aggression in cameo performances and is tactically very aware.

The team above is crying out for a peak years Eriksen or a Coutinho type player. Deadly shooting boots and set pieces, defence unlocking passing.

Very good post - although I do wonder what Ndombele would be like if we tried to push him forward into the number 10 role with Lo Celso and Hojbjerg doing the dirty work behind him. He'd still need to learn to run though.

 

[emiley heskey]

That kind of illustrates my point. A good attacking display overall, but the first four goals were all because of individual brilliance from Kane and Son creating goals for themselves out of nothing, as opposed to effective team build-up play.

Watch this again for an example of what I mean

1st goal came from Kane's individual brilliance , 3rd one was pure counter attack ...

 

[SUIYHA]

8 years and counting without a fluid attacking performance without Eriksen on the pitch.

Could have signed James Rodriguez for £12m this summer. Instead he tore us apart today.

Everyone is so fixated on signing a backup striker when the most obviously glaring player we are missing from our first XI is a playmaker. If we don't sign a backup CF then we can always rotate Son, Bergwijn, Lucas and co. If we don't sign an Eriksen replacement then we can look forward to a season of not being able to pass the ball forwards

 

[Haddock]

8 years and counting without a fluid attacking performance without Eriksen on the pitch.

Could have signed James Rodriguez for £12m this summer. Instead he tore us apart today.

Everyone is so fixated on signing a backup striker when the most obviously glaring player we are missing from our first XI is a playmaker. If we don't sign a backup CF then we can always rotate Son, Bergwijn, Lucas and co. If we don't sign an Eriksen replacement then we can look forward to a season of not being able to pass the ball forwards

Indeed. Another elephant in the room is Dele. As long as he's shoehorned into the number 10 position we'll continue to look lackadaisical.