Controversial opinion

[jimbo]

Here’s a grenade to chuck in here…

The we’ve got our Tottenham back sentiments….. I mean what a bunch of charlatans, really. Most of the fans threw any concept of their footballing ideals under the bus when it suited them.

The bellows of we need a winner, we need to be winners, that’s all that matters, etc.

About 90% of the fanbase were all for Mourinho.

Mass huddles around the campfire chanting “fuck possession, fuck pretty football, all about the result” and so on.

Then 99% of the fanbase demanded Conte was brought in.

The constant clamour for whoever they deem is the “biggest name” when these decisions have to be made.



Unfortunately the stupid chairman ended up listening to a lot of these narratives. But yeah, Fans were as complicit in some of the bollocks we’ve seen as anyone else, and deserved what they were served up.

Xx

I find it a weird concept generally - what is 'our Tottenham'? Plucky cup winning amateurs, relegation candidates, double-winners, 2nd division promotion scrapers? It's like how every football club in existence has its own 'way' and they're all broadly the same. Apart from Chelsea, who have no soul.

 

[muppetman]

I find it a weird concept generally - what is 'our Tottenham'? Plucky cup winning amateurs, relegation candidates, double-winners, 2nd division promotion scrapers? It's like how every football club in existence has its own 'way' and they're all broadly the same. Apart from Chelsea, who have no soul.

It always amuse me when we claim to own attacking, front foot football. Yeah mate, everyone else is playing 11 behind the ball and always have.

Almost every fan base believes their own team invented this style of football.

Waiting now for comments on Arthur Rowe and how we did.

 

[SUIYHA]

It always amuse me when we claim to own attacking, front foot football. Yeah mate, everyone else is playing 11 behind the ball and always have.

Almost every fan base believes their own team invented this style of football.

Waiting now for comments on Arthur Rowe and how we did.

It's a chip the shoulder that our fans have had for decades. We haven't won the league since 1961 so couldn't claim to be the "best" team around when others around us were sweeping up league titles, so the psyche was that we were the great entertainers, the purists, the loveable mavericks who played exciting attacking football even if it didn't always work out. It was in particular contrast to "boring boring Arsenal" who pre-Wenger had won some league titles but were famous for negative, defensive football and 1-0 wins, whereas we had the "moral" victory by insisting on good football amongst everything. Hoddle and Ginola just weren't appreciated by other teams who expected players to track back and to defensive work, only at Tottenham could their talents be truly appreciated for what they were.

The thing is - if you're of a certain age you've seen Tottenham managed by Gerry Francis, George Graham, Jacques Santini, Andre Villas-Boas, Jose Mourinho, Nuno Espirito Santo and Antonio Conte - none of whom captured this spirit at all. For me the most important thing for a new manager is always whether they are going to have us playing good football - because I've seen so many managers bore me to tears that it's become an absolute non-negotiable for me.

 

[easley91]

This wasn't as bad a window as some would have you believe. And they hate hearing it, but it doesn't all happen in one window unless you have Todd Boehly funding it. Even then they struggled to shift Lukaku until the very end themselves at the Bridge.

We literally only have the league until January so I think the squad can cope until then.

And unless I have missed it in the past few hours, we weren't the only ones who struggled to shift some deadwood. Arsenal still have Pepe and Holding, United Maguire and McTominay. United were finalising deals today, even scrambling for our LB. So no it isn't just a Tottenham Hotspur problem.

 

[easley91]

This wasn't as bad a window as some would have you believe. And they hate hearing it, but it doesn't all happen in one window unless you have Todd Boehly funding it. Even then they struggled to shift Lukaku until the very end themselves at the Bridge.

We literally only have the league until January so I think the squad can cope until then.

And unless I have missed it in the past few hours, we weren't the only ones who struggled to shift some deadwood. Arsenal still have Pepe and Holding, United Maguire and McTominay. United were finalising deals today, even scrambling for our LB. So no it isn't just a Tottenham Hotspur problem.

Okay so I missed Holding to Palace. But he didn't go until the very end so point still stands.

 

[muppetman]

This wasn't as bad a window as some would have you believe. And they hate hearing it, but it doesn't all happen in one window unless you have Todd Boehly funding it. Even then they struggled to shift Lukaku until the very end themselves at the Bridge.

We literally only have the league until January so I think the squad can cope until then.

And unless I have missed it in the past few hours, we weren't the only ones who struggled to shift some deadwood. Arsenal still have Pepe and Holding, United Maguire and McTominay. United were finalising deals today, even scrambling for our LB. So no it isn't just a Tottenham Hotspur problem.

Good post, but could you add a bit more about how it’s all Levy’s fault and how he’s holding us back?????

 

[easley91]

Good post, but could you add a bit more about how it’s all Levy’s fault and how he’s holding us back?????

Oh he holds us back in some regards for sure. But it isn't always 100% his fault for everything. There is a blind hatred towards him now where even if it's a player or another club who turned down the offer, it's all down to Levy for not making them accept what's on the table.

Some only see Tottenham problems and don't see other clubs have issues too. We really are not the worst run club, far from it. We weren't going to get everything done in this window or any singular window. Kane was leaving now or next summer, you don't replace him with one player. You replace him with a team and style.

United got their midfielder yesterday and still have Maguire and McTominay. Arsenal only just got rid of Holding and as far as I know still have Pepe on the books. Lukaku left Chelsea on loan in the final days of the window. Liverpool only got Gravenberch last minute and I still don't think they solved the defensive side of their midfield.

It's not just us and that's what people need to remember.

 

[muppetman]

Oh he holds us back in some regards for sure. But it isn't always 100% his fault for everything. There is a blind hatred towards him now where even if it's a player or another club who turned down the offer, it's all down to Levy for not making them accept what's on the table.

Some only see Tottenham problems and don't see other clubs have issues too. We really are not the worst run club, far from it. We weren't going to get everything done in this window or any singular window. Kane was leaving now or next summer, you don't replace him with one player. You replace him with a team and style.

United got their midfielder yesterday and still have Maguire and McTominay. Arsenal only just got rid of Holding and as far as I know still have Pepe on the books. Lukaku left Chelsea on loan in the final days of the window. Liverpool only got Gravenberch last minute and I still don't think they solved the defensive side of their midfield.

It's not just us and that's what people need to remember.

I absolutely agree with you and think this is an excellent post.

There is so much lazy thinking on here.

 

[Gassin's finest]

It always amuse me when we claim to own attacking, front foot football. Yeah mate, everyone else is playing 11 behind the ball and always have.

Almost every fan base believes their own team invented this style of football.

Waiting now for comments on Arthur Rowe and how we did.

Pete McWilliam, and it was the passing game he was influential in.

Attacking was the only way anyone played football from the first draft of the FA rules in the 1800s. Everyone had 5 forwards and passing was considered cheating.

 

[Marty]

Levy makes a rod for his own back at (many) times, and I would prefer a change of ownership but not at any cost. I don't want Tottenham to be taken over by a nation state that wants to sportswash its reputation. If that happened I would have a very hard time accepting it and might not ever be able to.

But the point I was going to make was about Levy. Because for all his missteps on the way, I think he has also been unlucky in more ways than one.

He set about wanting to put Spurs back amongst the big boys after a long decade of wilderness. He wanted to deliver CL football, that much has always been clear. To then see Chelsea and later Man City being doped into oblivion to overtake us was something he could never have predicted back in 2001. Yet despite those setbacks we made it in 2010 and have been steadily top 5/6 for most of the last 15 years.

Did Levy react too slowly to the changing landscape? Probably. Did he make mistakes on the football side along the way? Definitely, and we all know what they were. From sacking Jol in a horrible manner to turfing out Redknapp for AVB to not refreshing Poch's squad to the disaster summer of 2021, all the while pinching pennies and being a pain in the arse to negotiate transfers with, he has got many things wrong.

And there's also the factor of a brand new stadium opening less than 12 months before a worldwide pandemic that rendered it a white elephant for over a year and set the coffers back by millions. Again, mistakes were made in that time, but the timing was incredibly bad luck for us.

So while I am not a Levy supporter and have since summer 2021 hoped someone else would come in and run the club, he is not the hideous villain some portray him as. And the disparaging comments you see here belittling his height, his lack of hair, even his religion (thankfully very few of the latter that I've seen), are uncalled for.

 

[RuskyM]

Levy makes a rod for his own back at (many) times, and I would prefer a change of ownership but not at any cost. I don't want Tottenham to be taken over by a nation state that wants to sportswash its reputation. If that happened I would have a very hard time accepting it and might not ever be able to.

But the point I was going to make was about Levy. Because for all his missteps on the way, I think he has also been unlucky in more ways than one.

He set about wanting to put Spurs back amongst the big boys after a long decade of wilderness. He wanted to deliver CL football, that much has always been clear. To then see Chelsea and later Man City being doped into oblivion to overtake us was something he could never have predicted back in 2001. Yet despite those setbacks we made it in 2010 and have been steadily top 5/6 for most of the last 15 years.

Did Levy react too slowly to the changing landscape? Probably. Did he make mistakes on the football side along the way? Definitely, and we all know what they were. From sacking Jol in a horrible manner to turfing out Redknapp for AVB to not refreshing Poch's squad to the disaster summer of 2021, all the while pinching pennies and being a pain in the arse to negotiate transfers with, he has got many things wrong.

And there's also the factor of a brand new stadium opening less than 12 months before a worldwide pandemic that rendered it a white elephant for over a year and set the coffers back by millions. Again, mistakes were made in that time, but the timing was incredibly bad luck for us.

So while I am not a Levy supporter and have since summer 2021 hoped someone else would come in and run the club, he is not the hideous villain some portray him as. And the disparaging comments you see here belittling his height, his lack of hair, even his religion (thankfully very few of the latter that I've seen), are uncalled for.

We have also pretty consistently been top six and competed. Given that we don’t have the resources of many of the top six, and we’ve not had sincere questions about our future like Liverpool did under Hicks or Chelsea under Abramovich. We’ve not flirted with or been relegated like Everton, Villa, Newcastle, West Ham.

Things could undoubtedly be better, but they could also be much worse.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

It's a chip the shoulder that our fans have had for decades. We haven't won the league since 1961 so couldn't claim to be the "best" team around when others around us were sweeping up league titles, so the psyche was that we were the great entertainers, the purists, the loveable mavericks who played exciting attacking football even if it didn't always work out. It was in particular contrast to "boring boring Arsenal" who pre-Wenger had won some league titles but were famous for negative, defensive football and 1-0 wins, whereas we had the "moral" victory by insisting on good football amongst everything. Hoddle and Ginola just weren't appreciated by other teams who expected players to track back and to defensive work, only at Tottenham could their talents be truly appreciated for what they were.

The thing is - if you're of a certain age you've seen Tottenham managed by Gerry Francis, George Graham, Jacques Santini, Andre Villas-Boas, Jose Mourinho, Nuno Espirito Santo and Antonio Conte - none of whom captured this spirit at all. For me the most important thing for a new manager is always whether they are going to have us playing good football - because I've seen so many managers bore me to tears that it's become an absolute non-negotiable for me.

The managers who had us playing good football also had us performing well (Jol, Harry, Poch and seemingly now Ange), whereas the managers with a negative / boring approach failed (Francis, Graham, AVB, Jose, Nuno, Conte). Can't be a coincidence.

The thing is - if you're of a certain age you've seen Tottenham managed by Gerry Francis, George Graham, Jacques Santini, Andre Villas-Boas, Jose Mourinho, Nuno Espirito Santo and Antonio Conte

Did Jacques Santini stick around long enough for us to even establish a style of play?

 

[Pistols At Dawn]

I wonder if we could move Kulu to midfield in place of Sarr (he prefers the no 10) and bring Johnson in at RW…

 

[HodisGawd]

Here’s a grenade to chuck in here…

The we’ve got our Tottenham back sentiments….. I mean what a bunch of charlatans, really. Most of the fans threw any concept of their footballing ideals under the bus when it suited them.

The bellows of we need a winner, we need to be winners, that’s all that matters, etc.

About 90% of the fanbase were all for Mourinho.

Mass huddles around the campfire chanting “fuck possession, fuck pretty football, all about the result” and so on.

Then 99% of the fanbase demanded Conte was brought in.

The constant clamour for whoever they deem is the “biggest name” when these decisions have to be made.



Unfortunately the stupid chairman ended up listening to a lot of these narratives. But yeah, Fans were as complicit in some of the bollocks we’ve seen as anyone else, and deserved what they were served up.

Xx

Great post. I've been arguing this all along too.

The chairman is the chairman, and he's far from perfect (like all chairmen).

But fans need to look at themselves in the mirror as well. We've had a part to play in this too (and yes, I was all for Jose and Conte too, and Ndombele).

 

[Gassin's finest]

I wonder if we could move Kulu to midfield in place of Sarr (he prefers the no 10) and bring Johnson in at RW…

I'm down for this. Bring back natural footed wingers.

 

[King of the Lane]

I know this is the controversial opinion thread and this is anything but a controversial opinion but...

We are winning the league and the CL even though we arent in it.

 

[PaulM]

The managers who had us playing good football also had us performing well (Jol, Harry, Poch and seemingly now Ange), whereas the managers with a negative / boring approach failed (Francis, Graham, AVB, Jose, Nuno, Conte). Can't be a coincidence.



Did Jacques Santini stick around long enough for us to even establish a style of play?

Graham won a trophy. As much as I hated him, he did something that neither Poch, Harry or Jol did.

Results wise Conte did well here. He got us 4th after inheriting an absolute mess. And, when he left, we were 4th albeit it was a slightly false position based on a number of factors. The way he left coloured many people’s opinion of him but he did well in terms of results.

Also, referring to another post above, if anyone thinks we are one of the worst run clubs in the league, they need to take off the anti-ENIC specs. We’re very well run in most respects. There is quite a bit to criticise Levy for but there are a lot of clubs run a lot worse than us.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Graham won a trophy. As much as I hated him, he did something that neither Poch, Harry or Jol did.

Ramos and Graham both won trophies, but both also averaged an 11th-place league finish. Levy has since sacked multiple managers for doing less badly. Graham has the excuse of taking on a side that was fresh from a relegation scrap, but we'd finished 5th in consecutive seasons (only missing out on 4th due to "lasagna gate") before Ramos dragged us back down to mediocrity.

For context, Jol averaged 5th, Harry averaged 4th and Poch averaged 3rd. Francis averaged 8th and Hoddle averaged 10th, yet both of them are looked back on as flops, despite each having improved upon the league finish of their predecessor.

For further context, after the League Cup win under Ramos, players came out and said Ramos didn't deserve any of the credit for that achievement.

What I will say is Graham's tenure probably would have lasted longer if we had achieved the same results with a bit more flare and if it wasn't for his history with Arsenal. Hoddle's appointment was almost certainly intended to directly address both of these criticisms of Graham.

Results wise Conte did well here. He got us 4th after inheriting an absolute mess. And, when he left, we were 4th albeit it was a slightly false position based on a number of factors. The way he left coloured many people’s opinion of him but he did well in terms of results.

Totally agree. I will add that the negative tactics (despite their effectiveness) added to people's negative opinion.

Also, referring to another post above, if anyone thinks we are one of the worst run clubs in the league, they need to take off the anti-ENIC specs. We’re very well run in most respects. There is quite a bit to criticise Levy for but there are a lot of clubs run a lot worse than us.

Yup!

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Here’s a grenade to chuck in here…

The we’ve got our Tottenham back sentiments….. I mean what a bunch of charlatans, really. Most of the fans threw any concept of their footballing ideals under the bus when it suited them.

The bellows of we need a winner, we need to be winners, that’s all that matters, etc.

About 90% of the fanbase were all for Mourinho.

Mass huddles around the campfire chanting “fuck possession, fuck pretty football, all about the result” and so on.

Then 99% of the fanbase demanded Conte was brought in.

The constant clamour for whoever they deem is the “biggest name” when these decisions have to be made.



Unfortunately the stupid chairman ended up listening to a lot of these narratives. But yeah, Fans were as complicit in some of the bollocks we’ve seen as anyone else, and deserved what they were served up.

Xx

I was apprehensive about both at the time of appointment (but not entirely against either). I was fully behind both appointments when our results were at a peak (flying high at the top of the PL under Mourinho and then that late run of form to clinch CL qualification under Conte).

On the day of Mourinho's appointment, I wished Poch had been given more time.

When Conte was in the picture ahead of Nuno's appointment, I thought he'd be a bad fit (due to his likely financial demands / expectations and personality, rather than his style of play). I was feeling far less against it by the end of Nuno's brief tenure.

 

[Ickle73]

If I hear the phrase 'he's a breath of fresh air' in relation to Ange one more time I think I might have Michael Douglasesque inspired meltdown from Falling Down.

Is it possible for anyone in the social media space to have an original thought? ...ggrrr

Sorry, now that I've got that off my chest I feel better