ENIC...

[mpickard2087]

Of course that spending wouldn't have guaranteed us winning anything, but it certainly would've given us a better chance. I completely agree with @mpickard2087 that football is unpredictable and it was often fine margins and small tactical/individual mistakes that cost us, but equally, if we'd acted decisively and daringly in the summer of 15/16, as liverpool did in 18/19 and bought a higher tier of player than Vinny fucking Janssen and a last minute Sissoko then we may well have won the league that year.

Think that's looking back on it with the benefit of hindsight as well to be honest. In that summer (2016) we signed Janssen, Wanyama, and Sissoko as our main buys. As a team in 16/17 we got better overall I think most agree, and to be fair we couldn't quite catch a Chelsea team that had a machine like second half of the season even better than ours. But back to those transfers:

Wanyama that year pre-injuries made a huge difference and I'd say we were a better team because of it.

The others on paper make sense and were trying to address and improve things - Janssen was a young striker who could come in as back up to Kane, fitted the mould of a Poch No.9, and who had enjoyed his breakthrough season in Holland and scored a ton of goals for club and was scoring for country too, this is the exact type of player/situation fans every window scream we should be getting and being ahead of the curve. He couldn't adapt to a higher level of football, but I have always thought the reason behind the signing was very sound and on paper he ticked a lot of boxes.

Sissoko many (including I) didn't want, but he added additional power to the midfield area and gave us proper box-to-box running ability we didn't have in the squad and was also PL and International proven. I can see why Poch wanted him. Of course he has his (huge) limitations and he/we couldn't find his role and how to fit him in, but in a perfect world that was adding a solid and versatile squad option and subsequently we have seen you can get some use out of him.

Looking at it objectively, the thought behind them on paper was sound. As we know it didn't work out to varying degrees so yes we can blame the recruitment and whoever identified them but the team didn't suffer for it. Probably many better years than can used as an example.

 

[wrd]

When concerns are brought up at the time it's called kneejerk and wait and see, when it's pointed out after the fact it's called hindsight.

 

[dontcallme]

When concerns are brought up at the time it's called kneejerk and wait and see, when it's pointed out after the fact it's called hindsight.

In some cases yes.

There are knee-jerk threads but the term has become a bit of a lazy term to write off any dissenting voices.

 

[Timberwolf]

Think that's looking back on it with the benefit of hindsight as well to be honest. In that summer (2016) we signed Janssen, Wanyama, and Sissoko as our main buys. As a team in 16/17 we got better overall I think most agree, and to be fair we couldn't quite catch a Chelsea team that had a machine like second half of the season even better than ours. But back to those transfers:

Wanyama that year pre-injuries made a huge difference and I'd say we were a better team because of it.

The others on paper make sense and were trying to address and improve things - Janssen was a young striker who could come in as back up to Kane, fitted the mould of a Poch No.9, and who had enjoyed his breakthrough season in Holland and scored a ton of goals for club and was scoring for country too, this is the exact type of player/situation fans every window scream we should be getting and being ahead of the curve. He couldn't adapt to a higher level of football, but I have always thought the reason behind the signing was very sound and on paper he ticked a lot of boxes.

Sissoko many (including I) didn't want, but he added additional power to the midfield area and gave us proper box-to-box running ability we didn't have in the squad and was also PL and International proven. I can see why Poch wanted him. Of course he has his (huge) limitations and he/we couldn't find his role and how to fit him in, but in a perfect world that was adding a solid and versatile squad option and subsequently we have seen you can get some use out of him.

Looking at it objectively, the thought behind them on paper was sound. As we know it didn't work out to varying degrees so yes we can blame the recruitment and whoever identified them but the team didn't suffer for it. Probably many better years than can used as an example.

I can't deny there was an element of 'in hindsight' to the post and yes, on paper, we filled some positions that needed filling, but Wanyama aside, we paid the price for choosing 2nd/3rd rate options rather than being brave and investing more in real quality.

I suppose we were all hopeful about Janssen, but honestly if you look back at his goals for AZ it's quite stunning that Poch and Levy (and a lot of us on SC) thought he was the answer. A couple of the goals were quite nice but on the whole he really looked a slow, pedestrian striker. Sissoko was a last minute panic buy who was signed, in some way, to appease Poch &the fans and was almost definitely a result of other, better deals falling through.

I suppose with Janssen it was just a punt that didn't come off and it's hard to persuade players to come in and deputise for someone like Kane, but I'm more using this window as an example of the small margins that have cost us in multiple past windows. Sure we're saved a few million on certain deals, but I think we've also lost out on some very good players and settled for second rate ones by having that very attitude. Perhaps I'm asking too much and you can't have the good without the bad, but I don't think it's a coincidence that in about 70-80% of transfer windows our fans have collectively felt that we've missed out on big opportunities. It's happened to such an extent that the end-of-window sense of disappointment and resignation has practically become a meme on this forum.

In Levy's defence last summer was a good window and we've done well this Jan (striker aside) so perhaps things are changing. It's just a shame we hadn't pushed that extra 10-20% on just a couple of occasions as I think it could've made a real difference.

 

[dontcallme]

I can't deny there was an element of 'in hindsight' to the post and yes, on paper, we filled some positions that needed filling, but Wanyama aside, we paid the price for choosing 2nd/3rd rate options rather than being brave and investing more in real quality.

I suppose we were all hopeful about Janssen, but honestly if you look back at his goals for AZ it's quite stunning that Poch and Levy (and a lot of us on SC) thought he was the answer. A couple of the goals were quite nice but on the whole he really looked a slow, pedestrian striker. Sissoko was a last minute panic buy who was signed, in some way, appease Poch/the fans and was almost definitely a result of other, better deals falling through.

I suppose with Janssen it was just a punt that didn't come off and it's hard to persuade players to come in and deputise for someone like Kane, but I'm more using this window as an example of the small margins that have cost us in multiple windows. Sure we're saved a few million on certain deals, but I think we've also lost out on some very good players and settled for second rate ones due to having that attitude. Perhaps I'm asking too much and you can't have the good without the bad, but I don't think it's a coincidence that in about 70-80% of transfer windows our fans have collectively felt that we've missed out on big opportunities. It's happened to such an extent that the end-of-window sense of disappointment and resignation has practically become a meme on this forum.

Thing with Janssen was he was a young Dutch International who had put in a good performance against England and had hit 27 goals in his first season in the Eredivisie.

He seemed a good option as a backup with a plan to develop.

We have tried experienced backups, young backups and inside forwards who aren't like for like. None have really worked out.

 

[dudu]

We've finished in the top 5 ELEVEN times in the last 15 seasons. I would say we’ve been strong on many many occasions in those years and haven’t pushed on

Every season there is an excuse for not buying those 1 or 2 extra players to strengthen our squad and help us to fight on all fronts

End of the day ENIC only invest when it makes good business sense. No point buying players when we don’t really have to!

As I’ve said before, the business will always outweigh the glory

Again, Auier, Sanchez, Moura all say Hi.

 

[DogsOfWar]

Here's an interesting Deloitte graphic:

20 years ago we were a fifth tier club languishing with the likes of West Ham and Everton. One look at the names in those top 3 tiers will show you the perennial winners of domestic leagues and the CL and where we needed to be to even consider ourselves competitive.
Last season saw us top the third tier as shown above, whilst this season should see us enter the bottom of the second tier.
Levy has turned us into a club that will be competing at the same level as City, Liverpool, Bayern or PSG.

And, yes, we're all frustrated by the lack of silverware but Levy has grown this club way beyond anyone could have imagined and put us in a position where we can compete for years to come.

 

[WePlayWednesday]

Again, Auier, Sanchez, Moura all say Hi.

Stalteri, Perry and Dominguez wave back.

We have massively improved under the current owners. Just don’t expect miracles.

 

[Saoirse]

Here's an interesting Deloitte graphic:
View attachment 62469
20 years ago we were a fifth tier club languishing with the likes of West Ham and Everton. One look at the names in those top 3 tiers will show you the perennial winners of domestic leagues and the CL and where we needed to be to even consider ourselves competitive.
Last season saw us top the third tier as shown above, whilst this season should see us enter the bottom of the second tier.
Levy has turned us into a club that will be competing at the same level as City, Liverpool, Bayern or PSG.

And, yes, we're all frustrated by the lack of silverware but Levy has grown this club way beyond anyone could have imagined and put us in a position where we can compete for years to come.

Levy has done very well to get us to that position off the pitch. If he provides the funding that should come with it to succeed on it, then IMO his job is down to finding the right manager to put the pieces together - and love him or hate him, few disagreed with the logic of getting Mourinho in to take that final step.

 

[Bulletspur]

Believing that people who disagree with you are "dumb" simply because they disagree with you is actually a trait of a narcissist leaning toward the psychopathic side of life.... or ironically of a dumb person. Lumping everybody into the same bracket by saying "You guys..." is just lazy.

I haven't posted on this forum for ages specifically because of people like you. The small-mindedness of yourself and similar posters isn't limited to this debate, it can be seen in players threads, match threads, even general chat. It is painful to read and has made me not want to be involved with the rest of the folk on here.

If you take the time to read people's posts properly and try to remove your own opinion bias as much as possible you will start to see that many pro-ENIC people point out times when they messed up. Just as many anti-ENIC people can appreciate good things they do. There are some very eloquent posters on both sides of the argument, although probably still out-numbered by the one-liners we see! There are lots of good arguments for and against if you take the time to "see" instead of just "look".

The idea of pro-ENIC is not something limited to this forum. People on the outside (press, pundits etc.) never have the full story and are paid to deliver stories, so listening to them verbatim is not the recipe for the truth. Many normal fans of our club are overall happy with the owners. Many normal fans of other clubs are jealous of our owners. Your post above is simply incorrect.

I'm not saying you are the only person who has ever said something bad, but making posts like these genuinely spoils the experience for other people. And consider this; if you really don't care about other people and what they think, then perhaps that means your own views are inherently limited.

If you choose to not consider other people's points of view you do not limit their potential to be right... you limit your own.


PS. Don't bother replying to this because I doubt I'll be posting again any time soon. The Norwich game last week was my first trip to the new stadium and it massively re-ignited my passion for the club, so I wanted to pop my head up and say "Hi" to my fellow fans who are feeling a bit jaded by this debate. There are many positives around the club at the moment, don't let the naysayers get you down.

I wish I could "winner" this multiple times! Well said, as it puts in writing what most rational fans are thinking. One point though @vegassd , do not let them put you off contributing in this great forum. If needs must, identify the usual suspects and put them on ignore

 

[yido_number1]

Stalteri, Perry and Dominguez wave back.

We have massively improved under the current owners. Just don’t expect miracles.

It's impossible to argue we aren't better off now than under Alan Sugar which appears to be your point there. There was life before Sugar though and we did actually once win the league, UEFA Cup, Fa Cup, League Cup etc. You could see it as a problem with Enic or a problem with football in general now but too many clubs see finishing 2-4 as a big achievement and a barometer of success. The unfortunate thing for us is that aside from Liverpool, who will do it this year, all of the other clubs competing the top 4-6 mini league have won the league including Leicester just outside that previously.

It's time we move on now and actually create a squad that will compete to win the league. To do that we need to correct the one thing that is our cryptonite for making the next step and that is improve our transfer strategy. Every window we as fans can clearly see what we need to do and what needs to improve and yet every window we find our selves on a day like today staring at glaring weaknesses and getting told the transfer market is difficult.

We need to decide what we are. We are either signing the best young talent available before they are stars and progressing them into the squad. Or we are a big club signing big players like the rest of the teams in that window. At the moment we don't seem to know what to do. You can do both of these things but it needs to be a long term strategy. Signing players like Baloteli, Giroud, Llorente etc on the last day of the window doesn't point to long term squad management and anyone that points to Kanes injury should point to the previous injuries he's had and why it was plainly obvious to get that right in the summer and not wait for the event.

So yes, stadium, facilities, commercial great stuff. Player recruitment must improve or we need to accept we support a club that doesn't want to win major honours competing against Man City, Man UTD, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool & even Leicester.

 

[Metalhead]

Stalteri, Perry and Dominguez wave back.

We have massively improved under the current owners. Just don’t expect miracles.

Pity about Dominguez. He would have been a very useful player if he could have stayed on his feet.

 

[carmeldevil]

It's impossible to argue we aren't better off now than under Alan Sugar which appears to be your point there. There was life before Sugar though and we did actually once win the league, UEFA Cup, Fa Cup, League Cup etc. You could see it as a problem with Enic or a problem with football in general now but too many clubs see finishing 2-4 as a big achievement and a barometer of success. The unfortunate thing for us is that aside from Liverpool, who will do it this year, all of the other clubs competing the top 4-6 mini league have won the league including Leicester just outside that previously.

It's time we move on now and actually create a squad that will compete to win the league. To do that we need to correct the one thing that is our cryptonite for making the next step and that is improve our transfer strategy. Every window we as fans can clearly see what we need to do and what needs to improve and yet every window we find our selves on a day like today staring at glaring weaknesses and getting told the transfer market is difficult.

We need to decide what we are. We are either signing the best young talent available before they are stars and progressing them into the squad. Or we are a big club signing big players like the rest of the teams in that window. At the moment we don't seem to know what to do. You can do both of these things but it needs to be a long term strategy. Signing players like Baloteli, Giroud, Llorente etc on the last day of the window doesn't point to long term squad management and anyone that points to Kanes injury should point to the previous injuries he's had and why it was plainly obvious to get that right in the summer and not wait for the event.

So yes, stadium, facilities, commercial great stuff. Player recruitment must improve or we need to accept we support a club that doesn't want to win major honours competing against Man City, Man UTD, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool & even Leicester.

Personally I think we need a scouting director. Another voice to look around and provide these strategies and a list of players. Someone with a bit of a vote in the transfer discussion room so that it's not down to just two people.

 

[yido_number1]

Personally I think we need a scouting director. Another voice to look around and provide these strategies and a list of players. Someone with a bit of a vote in the transfer discussion room so that it's not down to just two people.

There was an article from Commoli basically saying that people laugh at our scouting system. I know he will be bitter but I think he has a point. We need to decide if we are able to buy big players with big wages and if not we need to be scouting the best talent that hasn't broken through yet. At the moment we are neither.

 

[Bulletspur]

It's impossible to argue we aren't better off now than under Alan Sugar which appears to be your point there. There was life before Sugar though and we did actually once win the league, UEFA Cup, Fa Cup, League Cup etc. You could see it as a problem with Enic or a problem with football in general now but too many clubs see finishing 2-4 as a big achievement and a barometer of success. The unfortunate thing for us is that aside from Liverpool, who will do it this year, all of the other clubs competing the top 4-6 mini league have won the league including Leicester just outside that previously.

It's time we move on now and actually create a squad that will compete to win the league. To do that we need to correct the one thing that is our cryptonite for making the next step and that is improve our transfer strategy. Every window we as fans can clearly see what we need to do and what needs to improve and yet every window we find our selves on a day like today staring at glaring weaknesses and getting told the transfer market is difficult.

We need to decide what we are. We are either signing the best young talent available before they are stars and progressing them into the squad. Or we are a big club signing big players like the rest of the teams in that window. At the moment we don't seem to know what to do. You can do both of these things but it needs to be a long term strategy. Signing players like Baloteli, Giroud, Llorente etc on the last day of the window doesn't point to long term squad management and anyone that points to Kanes injury should point to the previous injuries he's had and why it was plainly obvious to get that right in the summer and not wait for the event.

So yes, stadium, facilities, commercial great stuff. Player recruitment must improve or we need to accept we support a club that doesn't want to win major honours competing against Man City, Man UTD, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool & even Leicester.

And which club is that? Certainly not The Spurs where most of us support. I do not know who you support. Also saying that the club needs to move forward, what evidence do you have that they are not? Things do not happen in a day or to suit your particular agenda or schedule. Signing Ballotelli, Giroud and Llorente etc does point to long term squad management, contrary to what you say, as they would only be temporary solution, until we get the striker that would fit into our future plans. Also contrary to what you believe, we did have a squad to that did compete and should have won the league, but did not happen due to circumstances. Its all well and good to sit and criticise the Clubs Management as an armchair chairman, without knowing crucial facts and having no knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes (this is aimed at others like thinking fans as well). Tired of reading this type of shit

 

[dontcallme]

I thought he said people laughed at our scouting system before he joined us and sorted it out. I could be wrong.

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Comolli before our CL final:

No other club in the game has improved as much in recent years through its own hard work, rather than from an external benefactor. “What [Daniel and Mauricio] have achieved, I don’t think they get enough credit. I can’t think of any football club in Europe from the last 15 years that has made so much progress on and off the pitch: commercial, sponsorship revenues, quality of the squad, style of football played, the best stadium in the world, the best training ground in the world of football, getting to the Champions League final, every year competing in the Premier League, having the lowest wage bill of the top six. I don’t think they get enough credit for what they are doing, Daniel and Mauricio, and the people working with them. I think people should say what you are doing is incredible. There is no other example I can remember of doing what Daniel has done, for the last 15 years.”

 

[dontcallme]

Here's Comolli's 2014 interview:

“From the outside, what I can tell you is that among the top 20 clubs in the world, in terms of wealth, Spurs are the only ones who haven’t got a scouting network.

“They are clearly understaffed in this aspect. It has become a kind of joke in the scouting community. They say, ‘have you seen a Spurs scout?’ You don’t see them. I don’t think they’ve got any.

“[When I was at Tottenham] we had 12 full-time scouts. We had a great scouting staff. The scout we had in Italy at the time is now the sporting director at Sampdoria after being sporting director at Monaco. The one we had in Spain is now head of recruitment for a big club in Spain. The one we had in Argentina is now head of recruitment for a club in Italy, so we had a strong scouting network which allowed us to sign all those players. Now it doesn’t seem to be the case.”

And their problems don’t end there, according to Comolli: “They have this fantastic [training] facility that Daniel Levy and I fought very hard to build but they need some brain power in there.

“If you look at the top clubs in the Premier League, all of them have got five fitness coaches and five physiotherapists just for the first-team but I don’t think Spurs have got anywhere near that at the moment.

 

[dontcallme]

Here's Comoli's 2017 interview:

“I think Tottenham deserve so much respect for what they’ve achieved,” the Frenchman told the Alan Brazil Sports Breakfast.

“Daniel Levy and Mauricio Pochettino are working with less money than everybody else and working on a lot smaller wage bill than any of the Premier League’s top five – we need to give them some credit.

“I’m sure they know exactly where they’re going [in the transfer market].

“The thing with Spurs which is extremely difficult for them to deal with and is probably very frustrating, is that if you take that first XI, it’s so difficult to make it better because every player is fantastic, every player is young…

“There’s was the second youngest team in Europe among the top five teams last season and yet they finished second in the Premier League which is the most competitive league.

“So to reinforce that team with players who are as good or better than those players, and as young too, it’s almost an impossible task.

“They’re probably looking for young and up-and-coming players to come an compliment that team, probably two or three and I’m sure they’ll achieve that in the end.

“It must be so difficult to find reinforcements for that team.

“Pound-for-pound, every player could play for almost every club in the world, that’s how good that starting XI is.”

 

[dudu]

Firstly, when, realistically, have we been in the position before this season to go out and spend huge amounts on players and their wages?

We have had a pretty decent starting 11 before this season, maybe last. Additions to an already good first team, with the intention of bolstering our squad since 2015/16

Son
Alderweireld
Trippier
Sissoko
Wanyama
Sanchez
Aurier
Moura
Janseen
Llorente
Foyth
Gazzaniga
Ndombele
Lo Celco
Sessegnon

During that period we sold 2 first team players I believe, only 1 of which was really any use to us at the time - Kyle Walker.

Yes, our team got stale and we should have moved some people on before we did but I personally think it is disingenuous to say that we haven't made any effort to bolster and improve our squad over the last 5 years. We have.

Our first team? Not really no but people are talking about us like we have had the finances and commercial appeal of Man United for 20 years

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Here's Comolli's 2014 interview:

“From the outside, what I can tell you is that among the top 20 clubs in the world, in terms of wealth, Spurs are the only ones who haven’t got a scouting network.

“They are clearly understaffed in this aspect. It has become a kind of joke in the scouting community. They say, ‘have you seen a Spurs scout?’ You don’t see them. I don’t think they’ve got any.

“[When I was at Tottenham] we had 12 full-time scouts. We had a great scouting staff. The scout we had in Italy at the time is now the sporting director at Sampdoria after being sporting director at Monaco. The one we had in Spain is now head of recruitment for a big club in Spain. The one we had in Argentina is now head of recruitment for a club in Italy, so we had a strong scouting network which allowed us to sign all those players. Now it doesn’t seem to be the case.”

And their problems don’t end there, according to Comolli: “They have this fantastic [training] facility that Daniel Levy and I fought very hard to build but they need some brain power in there.

“If you look at the top clubs in the Premier League, all of them have got five fitness coaches and five physiotherapists just for the first-team but I don’t think Spurs have got anywhere near that at the moment.

From the outside we are a top club but in reality levy is skimping on staff both players and physio's etc etc it has to be improved or we will not improve.