ENIC...

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

haha typo!

but yeah... as expected the happy clappers rating my post as spam ..i see you... you see me...

What you’re being neg repped for is gratuitously trying to agitate bad feeling among Spurs fans. We’re surely all feeling shit enough at the moment without you further trying to stir things up?

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

haha, this again.

The ENIC/Levy thing has been quite a long running affair going back years. And more years. Longer than some of you have been members.

Some people who have been against whoever, Levy or ENIC have, over that time, had all sorts of stuff thrown at them, ridicule, abuse, the piss being ripped out of them, whatever you care to call it. It's been give and take to a degree but when you're massively outnumbered, I guess you end up fed up with it.

So now, when I see people saying 'we feel shit enough already' and they shouldn't gloat, i'm sort of 50/50 (ish). For a long time you ripped it out of people and now you want it to stop because you "feel bad". I mean, seriously? Nobody stood up and said stop making them feel bad when the shoe was on the other foot, nobody said stop agitating anyone who bashed ENIC. It was like piranha fish had been thrown a bone, people were literally ripped to shreds.

So complaining when the shoe is on the other foot comes across as a bit bollocksy

Personally, it hasn't occurred to me to say I told you so or anything, I take no great pleasure in it either way, i've always tried to be light hearted about it as much as possible and not take it all too seriously, I don't particularly agree with twisting the knife right now and would prefer not to see it, but I do understand why some people do it. You just aren't going to stop it, it's human nature, stop making me feel bad is a bit rich though. Take it on the chin like the people you didn't agree with had to.

I fully expect this to upset some people, it's not intended that way, it's just the truth as I see it.



TLDR; Yeah it's a crying arse shame that it's happening, ideally it wouldn't be, but meh, how did you expect it all to unfold.

 

[dontcallme]

haha, this again.

The ENIC/Levy thing has been quite a long running affair going back years. And more years. Longer than some of you have been members.

Some people who have been against whoever, Levy or ENIC have, over that time, had all sorts of stuff thrown at them, ridicule, abuse, the piss being ripped out of them, whatever you care to call it. It's been give and take to a degree but when you're massively outnumbered, I guess you end up fed up with it.

So now, when I see people saying 'we feel shit enough already' and they shouldn't gloat, i'm sort of 50/50 (ish). For a long time you ripped it out of people and now you want it to stop because you "feel bad". I mean, seriously? Nobody stood up and said stop making them feel bad when the shoe was on the other foot, nobody said stop agitating anyone who bashed ENIC. It was like piranha fish had been thrown a bone, people were literally ripped to shreds.

So complaining when the shoe is on the other foot comes across as a bit bollocksy

Personally, it hasn't occurred to me to say I told you so or anything, I take no great pleasure in it either way, i've always tried to be light hearted about it as much as possible and not take it all too seriously, I don't particularly agree with twisting the knife right now and would prefer not to see it, but I do understand why some people do it. You just aren't going to stop it, it's human nature, stop making me feel bad is a bit rich though. Take it on the chin like the people you didn't agree with had to.

I fully expect this to upset some people, it's not intended that way, it's just the truth as I see it.



TLDR; Yeah it's a crying arse shame that it's happening, ideally it wouldn't be, but meh, how did you expect it all to unfold.

I think the point for people like myself is I have never seen myself as having to assign myself to a side regarding the board. When I thought Levy and ENIC were overall good for the club I didn't see myself as BSODL and now I think Levy needs to step away I don't see myself as anti-ENIC or part of the Levy out brigade.

I just enjoy debating points. Your post is suggesting there is an us and them, one side or the other.

I have never seen it like that and the handful of posters trying to bait the other side are really bad for discussion in my view and are the ones being called out.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I was a huge defender of Levy, and I still stand by any defence I made at the time as I always made that defence based on the facts available and tried to keep it objective, while also being aware of his failings. The reason I no longer defend him as I feel the reasons I had to defend him are no longer true, and that the facts available now suggest he’s doing a pretty shit job.

I hope that, while I know I argue in quite an opinionated way, I never belittled or abused anyone or took the piss, though I know I’m a sarcastic **** so maybe I did without realising. If I did then I definitely regret it.

 

[ohtottenham!]

I think we just have to focus on the broadening consensus we have right now among the fanbase regarding ENIC/Levy. It’s become much more negative and critical across the board on the job they’ve done on the football side in recent years, and rightly so.

So, what needs to be done right now and going forward? That’s the focus of debate. I completely agree with @Archibald&Crooks , that Levy needs to be completely removed as Chairman/CEO/COO…or from any role which gives him control of football decisions.

The hiring of a DoF doesn’t cut it in any shape or form as Levy will still make the key decisions, including the choice of DoF. We can’t do much re ENIC unless they sell up but we can protest in various ways to pressure the removal of Levy as Chairman. It’s really up to fans in the end!

We’ve already seen how some of that pressure can work with Levy having to give that “state of the union” interview a few weeks back in which he admitted taking his eye off the ball and making mistakes on the football side.

I think we’re at the point now where most fans agree that there is a problem with Levy’s overarching control of the club. That problem will remain until he’s actually forced to give up control. That simply won’t happen unless and until we get a new chairman. That's my view.

 

[dontcallme]

I was a huge defender of Levy, and I still stand by any defence I made at the time as I always made that defence based on the facts available and tried to keep it objective, while also being aware of his failings. The reason I no longer defend him as I feel the reasons I had to defend him are no longer true, and that the facts available now suggest he’s doing a pretty shit job.

I hope that, while I know I argue in quite an opinionated way, I never belittled or abused anyone or took the piss, though I know I’m a sarcastic **** so maybe I did without realising. If I did then I definitely regret it.

This is pretty much where I am.

I generally debate people on the strength of the points they make. So when we were in an upward trajectory I was mostly in favour of Levy. A lot of the posts against Levy was the amount of money we were spending on the first team. I personally don't believe this was our problem so would disagree with people on this point.

Looking back the weaknesses of Levy and ENIC have been a failure to put in a long-term plan for the playing side, scattergun managerial hires and during the stadium build and Poch's time a failure to continue the conveyor belt or buying young players to develop.

But of course few spoke against Redknapp's hiring as the results were good despite the purchases during this time being for aged players with less sell on value.

Few spoke out about the manager hires lacking continuity.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

haha, this again.

The ENIC/Levy thing has been quite a long running affair going back years. And more years. Longer than some of you have been members.

Some people who have been against whoever, Levy or ENIC have, over that time, had all sorts of stuff thrown at them, ridicule, abuse, the piss being ripped out of them, whatever you care to call it. It's been give and take to a degree but when you're massively outnumbered, I guess you end up fed up with it.

So now, when I see people saying 'we feel shit enough already' and they shouldn't gloat, i'm sort of 50/50 (ish). For a long time you ripped it out of people and now you want it to stop because you "feel bad". I mean, seriously? Nobody stood up and said stop making them feel bad when the shoe was on the other foot, nobody said stop agitating anyone who bashed ENIC. It was like piranha fish had been thrown a bone, people were literally ripped to shreds.

So complaining when the shoe is on the other foot comes across as a bit bollocksy

Personally, it hasn't occurred to me to say I told you so or anything, I take no great pleasure in it either way, i've always tried to be light hearted about it as much as possible and not take it all too seriously, I don't particularly agree with twisting the knife right now and would prefer not to see it, but I do understand why some people do it. You just aren't going to stop it, it's human nature, stop making me feel bad is a bit rich though. Take it on the chin like the people you didn't agree with had to.

I fully expect this to upset some people, it's not intended that way, it's just the truth as I see it.



TLDR; Yeah it's a crying arse shame that it's happening, ideally it wouldn't be, but meh, how did you expect it all to unfold.

Meh….whataboutery, mate.

And, for what it’s worth, I’m not one of those who has ever ridiculed or abused anyone for either attacking or supporting ENIC, even if I might have disagreed with them on occasion.

So I have to disagree with you. Gratuitously trying to stir up ill feeling among fellow Spurs fans shouldn’t ever be excusable - no matter which side of the argument it comes from.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Meh….whataboutery, mate.

And, for what it’s worth, I’m not one of those who has ever ridiculed or abused anyone for either attacking or supporting ENIC, even if I might have disagreed with them on occasion.

So I have to disagree with you. Gratuitously trying to stir up ill feeling among fellow Spurs fans shouldn’t ever be excusable - no matter which side of the argument it comes from.

I agree, it didn't need to be said in the way he said it but it ain't "gratuitous", just some frustration expressed about something we all care about. We all do it.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

Meh….whataboutery, mate.

And, for what it’s worth, I’m not one of those who has ever ridiculed or abused anyone for either attacking or supporting ENIC, even if I might have disagreed with them on occasion.

So I have to disagree with you. Gratuitously trying to stir up ill feeling among fellow Spurs fans shouldn’t ever be excusable - no matter which side of the argument it comes from.

Yeah, you're right. Meh.

 

[worcestersauce]

Abramovic? City owners? PSG owners?

Debatable but either way you've got a dodgy billionaire with dubious origins an oil rich sheikhdom and another oil rich sheikhdom so comparison is a little unfair I think. Not forgetting that those clubs are all playing in the same grounds they were when the cashflow tap was turned on.

 

[vegassd]

Looking back the weaknesses of Levy and ENIC have been a failure to put in a long-term plan for the playing side, scattergun managerial hires and during the stadium build and Poch's time a failure to continue the conveyor belt or buying young players to develop.

I think one of Levy's biggest weaknesses has been a fear of getting anything wrong. I have no inside track on that of course, but the current manager "search" seems to highlight a deep seated lack of decisiveness, one which has been amplified by the inclusion of another point of view from Paratici. I think it's plausible that from Levy's perspective he believes it is better for the club to be avoiding as much risk as possible. I also think that's not a very modern tactic.

So I'm not sure that there's been a lack of a plan... it's just that every step along the route has taken far longer than it needed to and therefore the plan itself doesn't come together fast enough to survive the world of modern football. I seems to me that the plan was for the training ground and stadium to make the club an appealing place to be, then make a Mourinho level managerial appointment to push for honours... but it's taken too long to work properly.

When ENIC were starting out, that slow and steady process didn't seem much of a problem. In fact, it was probably a useful thing. But as the standing of the club has risen, the expectations have risen, and it requires more to be competitive. Whilst City and Chelsea are around we will always need to move that little bit quicker and take a few risks here and there, and I don't think Levy is the right man for that.

I have a lot of respect for him and I don't think he should be forced to resign or anything like that. I'm actually fine with him being in charge of the "grand plan" for the club, but I think we need somebody with a bit more freedom who can make timely decisions about how to execute that plan. It would seem a DOF is the answer but given the royal fuck up over the manager search I'm not so sure! Maybe it needs more time to settle and for Levy to stay out of these decisions.

Coming out of Covid this summer (fingers crossed) could be seen as a huge opportunity, and if we had a settled DOF and manager I think it would be. But I fear that we will see more of this "decision paralysis" and the root cause is a very slow moving Levy. I'm hopeful that won't be the case, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

 

[ohtottenham!]

I think one of Levy's biggest weaknesses has been a fear of getting anything wrong. I have no inside track on that of course, but the current manager "search" seems to highlight a deep seated lack of decisiveness, one which has been amplified by the inclusion of another point of view from Paratici. I think it's plausible that from Levy's perspective he believes it is better for the club to be avoiding as much risk as possible. I also think that's not a very modern tactic.

So I'm not sure that there's been a lack of a plan... it's just that every step along the route has taken far longer than it needed to and therefore the plan itself doesn't come together fast enough to survive the world of modern football. I seems to me that the plan was for the training ground and stadium to make the club an appealing place to be, then make a Mourinho level managerial appointment to push for honours... but it's taken too long to work properly.

When ENIC were starting out, that slow and steady process didn't seem much of a problem. In fact, it was probably a useful thing. But as the standing of the club has risen, the expectations have risen, and it requires more to be competitive. Whilst City and Chelsea are around we will always need to move that little bit quicker and take a few risks here and there, and I don't think Levy is the right man for that.

I have a lot of respect for him and I don't think he should be forced to resign or anything like that. I'm actually fine with him being in charge of the "grand plan" for the club, but I think we need somebody with a bit more freedom who can make timely decisions about how to execute that plan. It would seem a DOF is the answer but given the royal fuck up over the manager search I'm not so sure! Maybe it needs more time to settle and for Levy to stay out of these decisions.

Coming out of Covid this summer (fingers crossed) could be seen as a huge opportunity, and if we had a settled DOF and manager I think it would be. But I fear that we will see more of this "decision paralysis" and the root cause is a very slow moving Levy. I'm hopeful that won't be the case, but I wouldn't put any money on it.

ENIC is an investment/property company. Its priorities are simply about maximizing the profits from its investment. The success of THFC is both incidental and useful in achieving those priorities. Daniel Levy is front, centre and sideways re all of those priorities. He makes all of the operational decisions re THFC.

That needs to change, and all of us fans of the club need to realize that.

 

[Shadydan]

I think the point for people like myself is I have never seen myself as having to assign myself to a side regarding the board. When I thought Levy and ENIC were overall good for the club I didn't see myself as BSODL and now I think Levy needs to step away I don't see myself as anti-ENIC or part of the Levy out brigade.

I just enjoy debating points. Your post is suggesting there is an us and them, one side or the other.

I have never seen it like that and the handful of posters trying to bait the other side are really bad for discussion in my view and are the ones being called out.

Amazing you had to actually explain this

 

[Yacob1964]

Levy needs to go. This club is going so backwards under him. We can’t even sell Sissoko because he’s overvalued him. He shouldn’t be in football because all of his decision making is an absolute shambles. Nobody likes working with him. No wonder Brendan and a hat full of other managers turned us down. Levy is an absolute nightmare to work with. Remember what Sir Alex Ferguson said about him. It seems he’s totally right! "That whole experience was more painful than my hip replacement!” I know he won’t go but I won’t have such an interest in this club until he’s gone. I just can’t support him in anyway at all anymore.

I wholeheartedly agree. ENIC have owned the club now for more than 2 decades and their track record is abysmal, 1 carling cup for a club of Spurs size is a joke, hell Leicester have won more than us and they've been in the Premier League for half the time we have. Unfortunately unless some multi billionaire with a spare £2-3 billion in his pocket, I don't see the situation improving anytime soon.

 

[Hazelton]

It's not about current or past allegiances, nor is it about personal opinions or bias. Factually, realistically, this is blatantly going wrong and only one man is responsible.

The self-imposed transfer embargo, the failure to realise it was going downhill before it was too late, the ESL and subsequent handling of it, the manager fiasco we've found ourselves in... it all stems from one person. If he could step back and read the room, he'd see it. He's sacked people for doing less damage than he is currently causing.

 

[the lad]

I have said it before and I will say it again, the club I love won’t last another five years under the incompetence of levy & ENIC.

 

[rossdapep]

Levy and a lot of his supporters have stated multiple times how things will be tough for a while but its about where the club will be in 5 or 10 years time. Or something along those lines regarding why we can't spend now and that we need to see the bigger picture.

I'm sorry but this just isn't washing with me. The bigger picture is more about what is at stake now.

Our position as one of the bigger teams in England is at risk. If we lose that pulling power, there are NO guarantees we get that back and the road to the top doesn't take 5 or so years but ends up taking much longer.

Arsenal are about to spend 50m on a very decent CB who I believe has the potential to be one of the best in the league. What if Arsenal follow that up with a couple more solid signings such as Aouar and Isak? Their coach isn't what I believe to be a promising coach but they are at least making the right moves and all of a sudden a crisis club is looking more stable and positive.

Leeds - they dont have the pull of previous years but they are looking at some interesting signings this summer. They are investing and looking up. They have the fan base and the name, how long before they start knocking on the door?

Leicester - once again they are investing smartly and always planning for the future and the next stages. They use smart recruiting and have a happy camp. Young promising talent will choose Leicester as they believe it's a place where they can make a name for themselves.

United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea aren't going anywhere.

So when people say we need to be cautious and we can't invest heavily, we are taking a massive risk in that we are giving these clubs a chance to overtake us. And it may be a position we struggle to recover.

I'm not saying we need to spend 200m+ in a window but we need to be signing the best options a club of our recent stature can and should be getting. That goes for coaches too.

It's not about the future, it's about the NOW and I wish people within the club and those still defending Levy wake up because if we sit here believing it's just a rocky patch and our stadium alone will get us through it whilst being shrewd, then I fear for us.

 

[FuturistiC123]

Our current behavior seems like a giant smoke screen for something like the sale of the club. We appoint Kline, sack Jose and bring in a DOF. When you sell a business you get rid of the assets the buyer does not want and add/keep what will attract. You keep your customers/creditors/debtors in the dark and do as little as possible until the deal is announced. We certainly have a big smoke screen at the moment, with a whole team of bull shitters fanning the flames. Its either that or Levy has lost the paddle for his canoe.

When you sack a guy like Mou a few days before a cup final, other managers will wonder what awaits them; I think he is finding out that his rep and that of the club has been damaged. Shifting from Conte to Fonseca, from a 15 mill per annum candidate to one who will take 2.5 smacks of panic to me.

 

[Blockbuster]

haha, this again.

The ENIC/Levy thing has been quite a long running affair going back years. And more years. Longer than some of you have been members.

Some people who have been against whoever, Levy or ENIC have, over that time, had all sorts of stuff thrown at them, ridicule, abuse, the piss being ripped out of them, whatever you care to call it. It's been give and take to a degree but when you're massively outnumbered, I guess you end up fed up with it.

So now, when I see people saying 'we feel shit enough already' and they shouldn't gloat, i'm sort of 50/50 (ish). For a long time you ripped it out of people and now you want it to stop because you "feel bad". I mean, seriously? Nobody stood up and said stop making them feel bad when the shoe was on the other foot, nobody said stop agitating anyone who bashed ENIC. It was like piranha fish had been thrown a bone, people were literally ripped to shreds.

So complaining when the shoe is on the other foot comes across as a bit bollocksy

Personally, it hasn't occurred to me to say I told you so or anything, I take no great pleasure in it either way, i've always tried to be light hearted about it as much as possible and not take it all too seriously, I don't particularly agree with twisting the knife right now and would prefer not to see it, but I do understand why some people do it. You just aren't going to stop it, it's human nature, stop making me feel bad is a bit rich though. Take it on the chin like the people you didn't agree with had to.

I fully expect this to upset some people, it's not intended that way, it's just the truth as I see it.



TLDR; Yeah it's a crying arse shame that it's happening, ideally it wouldn't be, but meh, how did you expect it all to unfold.

You've articulated in a way I never could, Thanks for posting this, my sentiments exactly.

I think a lot 'Anti-Levy/Enic' comes from the fact we are treated like a big club (ticket prices, season tickets, club membership) but when it comes to the first team its not exactly given back.

Cannot fault Levy for the training ground & stadium, its all amazing but end of the day we support this club & the players, thats where we need this level of investment - otherwise it seriously only looks like its there to generate profits for the owners.

 

[SecretLemonadeDrinker]

Levy and a lot of his supporters have stated multiple times how things will be tough for a while but its about where the club will be in 5 or 10 years time. Or something along those lines regarding why we can't spend now and that we need to see the bigger picture.

I'm sorry but this just isn't washing with me. The bigger picture is more about what is at stake now.

Our position as one of the bigger teams in England is at risk. If we lose that pulling power, there are NO guarantees we get that back and the road to the top doesn't take 5 or so years but ends up taking much longer.

Arsenal are about to spend 50m on a very decent CB who I believe has the potential to be one of the best in the league. What if Arsenal follow that up with a couple more solid signings such as Aouar and Isak? Their coach isn't what I believe to be a promising coach but they are at least making the right moves and all of a sudden a crisis club is looking more stable and positive.

Leeds - they dont have the pull of previous years but they are looking at some interesting signings this summer. They are investing and looking up. They have the fan base and the name, how long before they start knocking on the door?

Leicester - once again they are investing smartly and always planning for the future and the next stages. They use smart recruiting and have a happy camp. Young promising talent will choose Leicester as they believe it's a place where they can make a name for themselves.

United, City, Liverpool and Chelsea aren't going anywhere.

So when people say we need to be cautious and we can't invest heavily, we are taking a massive risk in that we are giving these clubs a chance to overtake us. And it may be a position we struggle to recover.

I'm not saying we need to spend 200m+ in a window but we need to be signing the best options a club of our recent stature can and should be getting. That goes for coaches too.

It's not about the future, it's about the NOW and I wish people within the club and those still defending Levy wake up because if we sit here believing it's just a rocky patch and our stadium alone will get us through it whilst being shrewd, then I fear for us.

I agree that we are very much in danger of falling back into mid table mediocrity. The lack of any evident sense of urgency from the club about the current situation beggars belief - especially given how far we have fallen over the past few years. This, more than any previous summer over the past 10 years, required decisive action and a statement of ambition. But what has happened is the complete opposite. And it is as baffling as it is frustrating that Levy appears to be unable to see it.

But I disagree with you that there are many, if any, who are still backing Levy in the precise way that you say they are. Whatever they might have said in the past (about our decline being a mere blip) is no longer pertinent. This shambolic, inexcusably protracted manager search has shone a new light on the club's direction and how it is run.

This summer hasn't thrown up merely more of the same old causes for complaint about Levy. It has revealed a new and altogether more worrying absence of leadership, along with a concomitant presence of internal division. Before now, there has always been the sense that there was a plan; that there might be backward steps along the way but that the overall direction of travel was forward and up. No longer. We now appear to be rudderless. A backward step now is less a blip and more just one step in the overall direction of travel.

Levy would have to pull several rabbits out of several hats to set us back on the path to where we were just a few years ago. It's not impossible that he does it but the signs aren't promising right now.