Ex-Manager watch: Antonio Conte

[Stuart Leathercock]

Conte doesn't think about the long term because he's not a long term manager, nor was he hired to be one. He was hired because we had two world class talents at their peak and we didn't want to waste them by rebuilding but that ship has clearly sailed now.

Yeah, Conte probably does play the players he think will give him the best chance of winning, but that doesn't mean that there can't be an issue or that other managers can't be better at playing young players. If for example, he has a much more conservative view on the risk young players bring than an alternative, he's still going to play them less than that other coach would.

No manager at Spurs can afford to think long-term. The chairman will sack them if they even have the temerity to deliver a par finish.
There is no 'probably' about it here by the way. Conte will pick the players he feels are the best ones to get a result in the game. If we had a chairman with some long term thinking who was prepared to allow a rebuild then our manager (whoever they may be) could start to think long-term. I agree with you that Conte isn't traditionally a 'long term' manager. However even if we brought in an (e.g.) Thomas Franke, he would also only be able to focus on the here and now, as slipping to an 8th place finish would see the chairman sack him.

 

[mil1lion]

It's a bit unfair comparing a 343 system that has been worked on since the day Conte arrived to the handful of occasions he's been pretty much forced to use 352, and even then had to throw in players like Bissouma (in the wrong position) when he'd hardly kicked a ball for us.

How is that different to playing 343 with key players missing though?

 

[TOLBINY]

Conte has pretty much never had a successful season where he's also gone deep in the Champions League for exactly this reason. If his players have a week off, then 2 top CMs can match a 3 if they're less fit or more tired. It's just not possible with the current schedule and he seems to have absolutely no solutions or adjustments that he can make. Probably a big part of why we've dropped off from last season too.

Do you think they outplayed us in the second half on Sunday? I accept hey were 2-0 up and did not need to force any issues, in which case it ought to be more difficult to break them down, yet we created a few decent chances second half.

 

[AtoubaToothpaste]

Do you think they outplayed us in the second half on Sunday? I accept hey were 2-0 up and did not need to force any issues, in which case it ought to be more difficult to break them down, yet we created a few decent chances second half.

But that's the crux of the issue this season, isn't it? We only complete for about 30mins a game. What if we played in the 1st half like we played in the 2nd half? Perhaps we'd do better against the top six + Newcastle, but our record against them under Conte is shocking. I'm not expecting another miracle, but at the very least, a man of his history and record should be able to coach a decent squad like ours to compete for the majority of the game. Eddie Howe has managed to do that with an inferior squad at Newcastle, and I doubt many here would accept the likes of Schar and Burn in our defence or Willock in CM.

 

[Stuart Leathercock]

But that's the crux of the issue this season, isn't it? We only complete for about 30mins a game. What if we played in the 1st half like we played in the 2nd half? Perhaps we'd do better against the top six + Newcastle, but our record against them under Conte is shocking. I'm not expecting another miracle, but at the very least, a man of his history and record should be able to coach a decent squad like ours to compete for the majority of the game. Eddie Howe has managed to do that with an inferior squad at Newcastle, and I doubt many here would accept the likes of Schar and Burn in our defence or Willock in CM.

Schar is a better CB than Dier IMO.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Conte has pretty much never had a successful season where he's also gone deep in the Champions League for exactly this reason. If his players have a week off, then 2 top CMs can match a 3 if they're less fit or more tired. It's just not possible with the current schedule and he seems to have absolutely no solutions or adjustments that he can make. Probably a big part of why we've dropped off from last season too.

The season he won the title with Inter, which is only 2 years ago, he reached the quarter finals of CL, Cup final and won the league.

 

[H-SF]

The season he won the title with Inter, which is only 2 years ago, he reached the quarter finals of CL, Cup final and won the league.

This is literally a lie. He got knocked out in the CL group stages in 20/21. Plus the prem is a completely different kettle of fish to Seria A as I've said before. More competitive managers and squads, tactical level is much higher.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

This is literally a lie. He got knocked out in the CL group stages in 20/21. Plus the prem is a completely different kettle of fish to Seria A as I've said before. More competitive managers and squads, tactical level is much higher.

It may have been the season before where he won the cup and came second in the league, but he’s definitely done it before.

PL also runs the least in ALL competitive leagues across Europe, and waste the most time with the least actual ball playing time.

This thing that the PL is the most tough league in the world is just another fallacy everyone holds on to. It’s the biggest by viewership, not performance metrics.

If anything, LaLiga trumps PL on European results alone. Never mind the competitive nature of their league, and the fact that they run almost 2x more than PL teams do.

 

[Spursfan1414]

The season he won the title with Inter, which is only 2 years ago, he reached the quarter finals of CL, Cup final and won the league.

Great aside from the fact it did not happen.

 

[Japhet]

How is that different to playing 343 with key players missing though?

He only played 352 when key players were missing too, otherwise you could bet your house on 343. It's the same stubborn streak that sees Son start every game in the diminishing hope that he won't be a complete passenger.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

We've played some great stuff largely in 2nd half of games though. Maybe not yet to the level we ended last season but the suggestion that it's always bad seems exaggerated. I do feel the strategy is patient first half and then more energy 2nd. Its just the patient build up is too slow. I am finding fans are not patient either though, I mean people moan as soon as we pass back in the opening minutes.

We do need a run of games with Ronero, Bentancur and Kulusevski though. We simply don't have the players to replace either of them well enough. It takes a bit more luck on the injury front and then maybe we can finish strong like last season. 2 key signings like last January though gives us a far better chance of that.

Agree with this. The reason we started struggling to create chances before the WC was because Kulu was out injured. And now our CM is weak because Bentancur has been injured.

Unfortunately we don't have a backup at the same level as Kulu so lost all his creativity for an extended period of time. And Bissouma hasn't really worked out for us yet/had injuries so we really couldn't afford for Bentancur to be injured.

 

[GutBucket]

It may have been the season before where he won the cup and came second in the league, but he’s definitely done it before.

PL also runs the least in ALL competitive leagues across Europe, and waste the most time with the least actual ball playing time.

This thing that the PL is the most tough league in the world is just another fallacy everyone holds on to. It’s the biggest by viewership, not performance metrics.

If anything, LaLiga trumps PL on European results alone. Never mind the competitive nature of their league, and the fact that they run almost 2x more than PL teams do.

He didn't win the Cup, he reach Europa League final which was delayed to date after Seria A finished because of Covid and his players had time to rest. That season he didn't win anything. Premiership is much more intensive, as you can see with Perisic who is doing well, but can't last 90 mins.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Great aside from the fact it did not happen.

I may have been wrong about it being the CL, but it was Europa so same thing. Also making it to a cup final in Italy, which completely destroys your one game a week argument.

 

[bat-chain]

Best solution we sign three good Players this window, I genuinely think Levy will do this because it is the only card he can play.

 

[TOLBINY]

Backing him does not guarantee you anything better than you have at the moment*, and certainly not top 4 or league titles and trophies - so why pay over the odds and risk finances? Levy is all about carefully managing the money, not overspending and maximising the return on capital invested..

* I do however agree that if your overriding aim is to win something then backing a manager like Conte gives you the best chance.

Levy would demand ridiculous prices for them.

Probably the reason most of them are still here.

We put Tanganga on transfer list and AC Milan, one of the best run club in the last few years was interested. Emerson last summer was linked with Atletico Madrid. So your point is?

Schar is a better CB than Dier IMO.

And so is Botman

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

He didn't win the Cup, he reach Europa League final which was delayed to date after Seria A finished because of Covid and his players had time to rest. That season he didn't win anything. Premiership is much more intensive, as you can see with Perisic who is doing well, but can't last 90 mins.

Perisic is old, and please explain intensity to me. Because that’s the line drawn out when I say PL players run around THE LEAST, so how on earth does less physical action = more intense?

That defies logic.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

He only played 352 when key players were missing too, otherwise you could bet your house on 343. It's the same stubborn streak that sees Son start every game in the diminishing hope that he won't be a complete passenger.

It's not stubborn, it's his philosophy. Same as when Liverpool used to leak goals at the end of matches - I didn't see Klopp deciding to park the bus instead of maintaining his high press. They simply just signed better defenders and a GK. During Peps first season when they didn't have the full backs to play his system, they didn't play 4 centre backs across the defence, they carried with the players who didn't work and bought better full backs in the summer.

When you have a world class coach with a philosophy that wins, you don't expect him to rip up the strategy that works for him. You back him with the players to make his system work.

 

[Spursfan1414]

View attachment 121312

I may have been wrong about it being the CL, but it was Europa so same thing. Also making it to a cup final in Italy, which completely destroys your one game a week argument.

In the season when the Europa League was played as a mini tournament after the league season had finished and so had 0 impact on the league season. And they made all the ties single legs.

The domestic cup you keep chucking in adds up to a total of 4 extra games. 4.

Go on, have a third crack at "completely destroying" my argument.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

It's not stubborn, it's his philosophy. Same as when Liverpool used to leak goals at the end of matches - I didn't see Klopp deciding to park the bus instead of maintaining his high press. They simply just signed better defenders and a GK. During Peps first season when they didn't have the full backs to play his system, they didn't play 4 centre backs across the defence, they carried with the players who didn't work and bought better full backs in the summer.

When you have a world class coach with a philosophy that wins, you don't expect him to rip up the strategy that works for him. You back him with the players to make his system work.

I have no idea why this has to be said 1000 times and it still isn’t registering.

 

[GutBucket]

Perisic is old, and please explain intensity to me. Because that’s the line drawn out when I say PL players run around THE LEAST, so how on earth does less physical action = more intense?

That defies logic.

Perisic was old last season too, and he scored twice in Cup final in 102nd and 99th minute. I can walk 20 miles today and be less tired than after sprinting for 100m. You are all wrong mate.