Financial Fair Play (general thread)

[SirHarryHotspur]

Different period, isn't it?

Everton are a financial mess - decent chance if they get relegated they could be down for a few seasons. Where are they on the stadium? I half expect them to see more financial difficulties due to that.

Supposed to be completed end of this year but costs up something like 50%..

"Building a £760m stadium, one of the best in the country, is an enormous challenge for a club," Moshri

 

[Marty]

Be interesting to see how their argument goes down - they knew when the deadline was, but delayed to get more money.. sometimes you have to sell for below market value, because the player has a short contract, is out of favour on high wages, and so on. every club has had to do it, often because of poor decisions one way or another.

Instead they got a very tasty price for Johnson and elected to not hit their FFP commitments. Doesn't sound like the strongest line of defence really.

I'd be more sympathetic to Forest if they hadn't signed 50 players over the last three windows before selling Johnson.

 

[neilp]

The big change is in the bringing the discovery of losses forward much earlier so that they are punished quicker, which is a very good thing in my book.

 

[joey55]

I can't be be the only one who loves it when other clubs get in trouble. Sometimes I read people saying they pity the fans of those clubs, but I'm more a schadenfreude kind of guy.

 

[rabbikeane]

Almost all clubs are in FFP struggle atm, so I expect them to demand FFP to go away in the end. But this is our window, we can make sure that at least for now we position us on top for a while.

 

[Japhet]

City have the right of appeal , if you split the charges into sections appeals could go on for years & years .

Bit weird though. It's like saying 'We won't arrest and charge that serial killer in case he goes on and murders a load more people and we can nick him for those too'. If we keep waiting for all of the evidence they'll just keep going and we'll never catch up with their offences.

 

[FibreOpticJesus]

So Everton have been charged again for a period they have already been punished for?

Probably because it is a rolling three year period which they have to keep there losses below £105m.

 

[Trix]

Two minutes of listening to anything on Talksport is enough, for that Martin bloke to say that the Everton punishment came out of the blue is total rubbish.
Everton were referred to the Independent Commission last March and the 10 point penalty desicion reached in November as the charges were far simpler than the Man C case, how is that out of the blue everyone knew the commission were sitting.

The only real precedence in England for breaching spending rules was Sheff Wed who were deducted 12 points in July 2020 by a Football League independent panel this was later on appeal reduced to 6 points which is what I expect to happen to Everton i,e getting their 10 reduced to 5 deduction.

We then get how sorry we are supposed to be for Dyche & players etc , well that is down to the owners and their irresponsible actions, as Levy has said many many times clubs need to be run sustainably.

We then get this Martin geezer going on about how Man C haven't yet had any desicion on their charges, it took four years for the PL to investigate and come up with the charges, if he was paying attention he would know that this case is going to take far longer than the Everton case.
He also says that maybe Man C have better lawyers !!!!!!, the PL independent commissions are headed by King's Council you can't get much higher than that in the legal world unless you are appointed a Judge.
Gave up listening after about two minutes.

As the KC who summed up in the Everton case said fining clubs with wealthy owners is a waste of time a sporting sanction is the only suitable punishment and the only thing they understand, roll on points deductions for Everton, Forest and Man City

The reason the Everton case has been dealt with much faster than the City one is because Everton admitted to the charges and City have not. Pleading guilty means there is no need for either side to build a case and with 100+ charges it's clearly going to be much more complicated, and time consuming.

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

Almost all clubs are in FFP struggle atm, so I expect them to demand FFP to go away in the end. But this is our window, we can make sure that at least for now we position us on top for a while.

Doubt FFP will go away , one purpose of the new football regulator is "Club sustainability - the financial sustainability of individual clubs."

Any more financial trouble and even a club like Everton could need help, I seem to remember a certain Alan Sugar bailing out a club that was badly run,

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

The reason the Everton case has been dealt with much faster than the City one is because Everton admitted to the charges and City have not. Pleading guilty means there is no need for either side to build a case and with 100+ charges it's clearly going to be much more complicated, and time consuming.

Can't find any reports on Evertons response when charged in March 2023 but this in Forbes magazine, sounds like at first they might have believed they were innocent.
Man City is different as it is about a multitude of charges like state aid , payments to Mancini etc.

It’s noteworthy that while Everton F.C. eventually agreed with the EPL that they breached the $131.3 million limit, the parties dispute by how much. The EPL ’s final assertion was that Everton F.C.’s PSR calculation for the three fiscal years ending in 2022 was a $155.6 million loss, while Everton F.C.’s final PSR calculation was $143.4 million, a difference of $12.3 million.

 

[aliyid]

I can't be be the only one who loves it when other clubs get in trouble. Sometimes I read people saying they pity the fans of those clubs, but I'm more a schadenfreude kind of guy.

I pity the fans of clubs who went down because they didn't break the rules more than fans of clubs who stayed up because they did

 

[yido-1989]

Does anyone know in detail what’s going on with Chelseas FFP and supposed payments to offshore accounts for transfers regarding William, Hazard, Conte etc.

 

[Trix]

Can't find any reports on Evertons response when charged in March 2023 but this in Forbes magazine, sounds like at first they might have believed they were innocent.
Man City is different as it is about a multitude of charges like state aid , payments to Mancini etc.

It’s noteworthy that while Everton F.C. eventually agreed with the EPL that they breached the $131.3 million limit, the parties dispute by how much. The EPL ’s final assertion was that Everton F.C.’s PSR calculation for the three fiscal years ending in 2022 was a $155.6 million loss, while Everton F.C.’s final PSR calculation was $143.4 million, a difference of $12.3 million.

But they did agree they had breached the rules. City still dispute all of charges as far as I understand it.

 

[Colonel_Klinck]

Bit weird though. It's like saying 'We won't arrest and charge that serial killer in case he goes on and murders a load more people and we can nick him for those too'. If we keep waiting for all of the evidence they'll just keep going and we'll never catch up with their offences.

People convicted of white collar crimes can very often remain out of jail while the appeals process takes its course. Man City are charged with the footy equivalent of white collar crimes and haven't even been convicted yet. Fingers crossed they are only delaying the inevitable and they'll cop an even harsher punishment for fighting it all the way.

 

[Dr Know]

The reason the Everton case has been dealt with much faster than the City one is because Everton admitted to the charges and City have not. Pleading guilty means there is no need for either side to build a case and with 100+ charges it's clearly going to be much more complicated, and time consuming.

This is a completely outside my understanding but if Everton pleaded guilty, how are they now appealing?

 

[luRRka]

This is a completely outside my understanding but if Everton pleaded guilty, how are they now appealing?

I'd imagine it's like 'yes we over spent but we did it due to this reason and these mitigating factors and covid etc' whereas city are just outright denying any wrongdoing

 

[Marty]

This is a completely outside my understanding but if Everton pleaded guilty, how are they now appealing?

Because they disagree with the extent of the punishment. They want to either reduce the points deduction or take it away altogether and be replaced by a fine.

 

[Trix]

This is a completely outside my understanding but if Everton pleaded guilty, how are they now appealing?

Unless I've got it completely wrong they aren't appealing the charge, just the sentence.

 

[Dr Know]

Thanks for the response guys.

Either way, this stinks. You admit you did wrong but blame someone else, if that was the case then why not just say “it wasn’t me” instead of pleading guilty.
I want Everton as a club to disappear of the face of the planet but I’m sure Man City and the Chavs have done worse.

 

[neilp]

This is a completely outside my understanding but if Everton pleaded guilty, how are they now appealing?

I think they should succeed in their appeal and have 50% of their punishments suspended.

Also, I believe that for a second offence they should receive a 20 point penalty.

Shame…. But fuck em.