How close are we to challenging City & Liverpool ?

[DogsOfWar]

We're not realistically challenging for the title next year.
If we pick up the more likely transfers of Spence, Eriksen, Richarlison, McKennie, and Torres we have the bare minimum of a squad which will allow a bit of tactical flexibility and depth.
If this can help us consolidate 3rd/4th and get to the quarter finals of the CL then next seasons budget can go towards a couple of key players who can help us push on but I believe there is too much work necessary in terms of player volume in to buy the necessary quality to challenge this season coming.

 

[sparx100]

We are a fair amount behind Liverpool and Man City in my opinion. I think the full backs, centre backs and midfield all need improvement in terms of depth of quality and although i think we have a strong front 3, i think we need more strength for competition.

There are a lot of average players in the squad that need selling that can't be relied on to change games or to compete in the cups.

Reguilion, Sanchez, Tanganga, Emerson, Doherty, Winks, Lucas all lacking in my mind. Don't get me wrong, not bad players but not to the level we need to aspire to. I cannot see them influencing Champions League games either from the start or from the bench.

 

[Timberwolf]

Think we could be closer than people think. New signings, Conte pre-season, etc.

That said, for us to make a genuine challenge we'd some very big swings of fortune. We'd probably need injuries to key players at both Liverpool and City, plus no serious injury issues ourselves and all our signings hitting the ground running.

 

[nipponyid]

Lucas, I cannot see them influencing Champions League games either from the start or from the bench.

 

[sparx100]

Yup I know...., but that was then and to be fair a one off. Can't live off one game to cement a place in the squad!

 

[mattspur1]

The signings/potential signings of Forster, Perisic, Bissouma, Eriksen, Spence, Torres, and Richarlison, makes me ask myself where does that catapult us to?
At the minute we are 4th but surely it takes us to at least 3rd, on par if not better than Chelski (I know they will add to the squad too).

How far off City & Liverpool will we be?

 

[Delboy75]

We will get closer I really think we could come 3rd. But this transfer pot is going to spread pretty thin as we need 6 or 7 players. We need Conte to stay another 3 years. Once the majority of the squad is sorted and then next window we only need 2 or 3 we can try to get absolute elite players that’s when we have a chance. But imo this is the beginning, and it’s first time in my lifetime that we are really gonna be solidly at the top table and a proper force. For all that levy has been derided. In another 10 years people could really look back and see the stadium being multipurpose was a touch of genius.

 

[worcestersauce]

As a little cameo of where we can improve to put us up in contention I'd offer the game at home against Brighton. We weren't good but we really weren't able to break their defence and score which led to a late 0-0 situation and their very late goal. Our problem was that being unable to get the goal we needed we had nobody we could bring on to change anything, if we can address that we will be massively more competitive.

 

[Japhet]

As a little cameo of where we can improve to put us up in contention I'd offer the game at home against Brighton. We weren't good but we really weren't able to break their defence and score which led to a late 0-0 situation and their very late goal. Our problem was that being unable to get the goal we needed we had nobody we could bring on to change anything, if we can address that we will be massively more competitive.

If we get Bissouma in we'll have much better depth in midfield. We really did wring Bentancur and Hojbjerg dry at the end of last season with Skipp being out, but we managed to hang on. Skipp and Bissouma would give us fantastic rotation options of equal quality across all 4 CM options and enable us to keep them all fresh and not fall apart if we get injuries or suspensions. I think that will be a game changer for. Same can be said for LWB if we can keep Sessegnon fit. I'm almost expecting a contingency signing at LWB (Udogie, Estupinan?) to cover that.

 

[Amo]

We weren't that far off them if looking at the table after Conte took over.

And that was with

• a managerial transition
• severe squad deficiencies (in breadth, depth, and quality) owing to years of neglect/mismanagement
• a horrible meltdown-inducing run of poor form that took Conte to the limit of his tolerance
• no pre-season when it's a crucial pillar of his strategic ethos
• no acclimatisation period for the two new signings (who came near deadline day in the winter)

Not saying we're going to win the league: I thought we'd challenge after thumping Roma 5-0 under Ramos. I thought we'd challenge after selling Bale (what a fun window that was). There may be nearly as much chance we regress in PPG than there is we improve in PPG

But even a modest improvement on Conte's points tally last season will see us close to City and Liverpool's totals from last season. Or closer than any other team, at least.

And they were already incredibly productive, so any improvements in efficiency they make next season will be more marginal.

 

[mil1lion]

We're getting there in this window, Perisic, Bissouma and Eriksen will really help push us on. I think the 2 points behind Chelsea can be a bit misleading. They found themselves out of the title race but also comfortable in top 4 so switched focus to the cups. They do have some work to do this summer but are capable of 80+ points. I see us contending with them for 3rd but see us, Chelsea, Liverpool and City as clear top 4 next season.

For me we have 2 stages of transfers. This year we're working on the bulk of that. We need/needed to replace the following this window;

Gollini not good enough back up (Forster)
Reguilon who is more suited to full back so replaced with a wing back (Perisic)
Emerson who same as Reguilon needs to be replaced with a wing back (Spence?)
Rodon who is clearly not fancied (left centre back who can play out)
Tanganga who is raw and may be best to loan, I don't think has found his best position (ideally someone that can play the Dier role and organise)
Winks (Bissouma)
Bergwijn (Ideally someone who can lead the line)
Dele needs replacing for numbers (Eriksen?)
Lo Celso (Kulusevski)
Ndombele (Bentancur)

I think that gives us the strength in depth to really close the gap. Its a lot of changes though so next season will be tough to get 90+ points and compete in the cups.

Next year we need to complete the rebuild and replace Sanchez, Doherty and Moura. Monitor the progress of Dier, Davies, Sess, Hojbjerg and determine if we can improve. Then from there we should be in a similar position to City and Liverpool where we only need a couple of signings each summer (2 years for example we replace Lloris and possibly Perisic).

 

[ItsBoris]

Man City scored 99 goals without a real striker. De Bruyne, Sterling, Mahrez were the top scorers. Now they've signed a goal per game striker I don't see how anyone will get close to them next season honestly

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I have no intention of being pragmatic here, with a couple of astute purchases I think we can win the league next season.

Look at the efficiency we produced with a team which basically had only maybe 15 players who could contribute from January. I think the talk of juggling Champions League is valid, I think that we will be able to suddenly go from 3-4 reasonable rotation options to 8 very good ones in the summer, I think that'll help the Champions League conumdrum.

The reason I think we can do it is because our style suits teams who play attacking football. We have arguably the best two players for a counter attack in world football at the moment for me in Son and Kane, if they're not the best then they're up there but Son finishing statistics in 1v1s and Kane a number 9 with his passing range, you'll do well to find better in that method of attacking. So already despite limitations in the squad we have scene our style suits playing against Liv and City despite them being better footballing teams, our system means we're better than the sum of it's parts and we can get results vs teams who are set the bar high for attacking football.

Our issue has been breaking down teams who sit deep because we lack the quality to find ways through because they can so easily overwhelm our main attacking outlets because they know they can maintain shape when the ball goes to certain players. Honestly you replace Emerson with Spence and already you're going to see a significant output increase from that area, then you talk of replacing Hojbjerg with a deep lying playmaker, you add the possibility of adding Eriksen as a component. Suddenly we are going to be able to become ruthlessly efficient.

For me though the big one is Bastoni, Romero already elevates us to signifcantly higher levels as a team with not only his front foot defending but his ability to play the ball and become the extra man in attack. If you add Bastoni on the other side then all of a sudden we are going to be extremely difficult to sit back against, the guy has a wand of a left foot, he's also italian so we don't even need to mention his defending ability. No disrespect to Davies who has been superb or any of the other players I've suggested be upgraded but you can see quite easily how suddenly teams will just not be able to contain us with that level of quality.

Look at the chances we gave away vs Liverpool and City over the 3 games under Conte. We are extremely risk averse in our approach and when you combine a defence that severely limits chances already, two absolute world class forwards in Kane and Son and then add ontop the additional quality in playing out from back with a player potentially like Bastoni with players who have the technical ability to make the system just become ruthless then I really think we can do it next season.

If we tried to go toe to toe with City and Liv at their own game then it's a different conversation but we aren't. We are about to see what happens when you give Kane and Son the tools around them so they dont have to do it all themselves, we have already seen what Kulusevski and Bentancur added. I don't think the rest of the world appreciates just how much Kane and Son have had to do on their own, they're about to find out what happens when the rest of the team has the capability to support them properly.

I think that whilst pep and klopp are there, they’re both such well oiled machines it’ll be so so difficult to close the gap but if we can give conte 7 signings that fit what he needs this summer and we can keep son and Kane fit then with conte we will get a close as is possible to get.

We beat city twice last year and drew with Liverpool twice so on our day we can match or beat them and towards the back end of the season I think we won 8 out of 10 something like that.

We know from his time at Chelsea that conte can build teams with his system to go on incredible runs of wins and amass title winning points totals.

If we think lpool and city will get about 95 points again, I think with the right signings we could get within 10 points, then to win the title we’d have to hope they drop off a bit next season and we hit a rhythm early and keep it going, not impossible if we make 7 quality signings this summer.

So to answer the Q I think we are about 7 decent signings away from them at this point but the way this summer is going and with the £150m cash investment + player sales, that could happen ?

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Man City scored 99 goals without a real striker. De Bruyne, Sterling, Mahrez were the top scorers. Now they've signed a goal per game striker I don't see how anyone will get close to them next season honestly

You have to hope that in a way then having that striker in their system might somehow go against them but I think you’re right and they’ll be almost impossible to catch again next season.

That being said, dare to do and city & lpool can’t keep their form up season in season out, as we saw the other season when Liverpool got Van dijk injured they were a shadow of themselves.

City aren’t quite so reliant on one player as they have a cheat code with their squad and billions of pounds etc but maintaining that intensity and consistency is almost impossible, at some point something has to give.

That is when we step in and take the chance.

If we can get Conte this summer something like the below then why not believe we can close the gap with a bit of luck.

Forster
Bastoni
Spence
Kostic
Bissouma
Eriksen
Perisic
Richarlison

 

[THOWIG]

You have to hope that in a way then having that striker in their system might somehow go against them but I think you’re right and they’ll be almost impossible to catch again next season.

That being said, dare to do and city & lpool can’t keep their form up season in season out, as we saw the other season when Liverpool got Van dijk injured they were a shadow of themselves.

City aren’t quite so reliant on one player as they have a cheat code with their squad and billions of pounds etc but maintaining that intensity and consistency is almost impossible, at some point something has to give.

That is when we step in and take the chance.

If we can get Conte this summer something like the below then why not believe we can close the gap with a bit of luck.

Forster
Bastoni
Spence
Kostic
Bissouma
Eriksen
Perisic
Richarlison

Thing is. None of those players get in the city first 11. That’s the reality.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Thing is. None of those players get in the city first 11. That’s the reality.

Sum of parts and suitability to contes style and system is the key not just individual quality.

For example Man.U are testament to this, they signed Ronaldo, Varane, Sancho, Van Der Beek etc and went from 2nd to 6th.

The 7 players i mentioned would be the pieces we need for Contes puzzle.

Half of Liverpools team wouldn’t get in city’s team on an individual basis but they’re perfect for Klopps system etc.

 

[double0]

Man City and Liverpool are clearly better teams they have a much better mental capacity to gride out results. In terms of player qualities, I feel we are closing that gap, especially if Liverpool sell Mane and Sterling leaves Man City.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

ATM I would say we are about 20 points behind them.
Let's see how the first six games go, maybe the gap will shrink, at least with one of them.
It's not just about players, it's how other teams play against the three of us. How fans react, including our own. How officials and media narratives impact games and mindsets.
So many variables including the collective histories, beliefs and attitudes each club brings to the (league) table

 

[N17-77]

ATM I would say we are about 20 points behind them.
Let's see how the first six games go, maybe the gap will shrink, at least with one of them.
It's not just about players, it's how other teams play against the three of us. How fans react, including our own. How officials and media narratives impact games and mindsets.
So many variables including the collective histories, beliefs and attitudes each club brings to the (league) table

I think this mentality, belief piece is a big factor. Deki, Bentancur, Perišić are all players who've won trophies at big clubs.

 

[dontcallme]

I don't think we're that far off.

But to compete next season we need Kane and Son on top form from the beginning of the season and the new players to settle in quickly.