Joe Kinnear. Dementia.

[TheChosenOne]

Saw this article re Joe, a player of my younger fan days, many don't like him
as having been a manager of opposing teams in the past.

To me he wore the shirt, got medals too. If he was good enough for Billy Nick he was good enough for me.

Another footballer with dementia. Sad.

 

[Flashspur]

Sad news. Was a great full back and part of a great Spurs side. Thanks for the wonderful memories Joe.

 

[DCSPUR64]

Very sad, he was in my first Spurs supporting team.

 

[Shelf59]

Very sad to hear this. A quality player and not really old. Played alongside Pat Jennings, Cyril Knowles and Mike England in a very good teqm that never realised its full potential. Famous for engaging in a bit of biffo with Brian Kidd when both got sent off in aan FA cup tie at WHL.

 

[fortworthspur]

terrible disease. mother in law has it. the saying about grieving for them twice seems true.

 

[whitesocks]

If there was an industry where workers were routinely bumped on the head as part of their job, and it was having serious long term effects, then it would be regulated.
A cap like the one petr cech wore might be enough to deaden the impacts.

There weren't many players from the 60's on display for the chelsea game, and for people who were the fittest of their generation, you'd like to think they'd live longer healthier lives than most, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

 

[hellava_tough]

If there was an industry where workers were routinely bumped on the head as part of their job, and it was having serious long term effects, then it would be regulated.
A cap like the one petr cech wore might be enough to deaden the impacts.

There weren't many players from the 60's on display for the chelsea game, and for people who were the fittest of their generation, you'd like to think they'd live longer healthier lives than most, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

I think this generation's rugby players might have serious problems with all sorts of life reducing injuries too

But yeah, a 1960s football was definitely not safe to head

 

[allatsea]

If there was an industry where workers were routinely bumped on the head as part of their job, and it was having serious long term effects, then it would be regulated.
A cap like the one petr cech wore might be enough to deaden the impacts.

There weren't many players from the 60's on display for the chelsea game, and for people who were the fittest of their generation, you'd like to think they'd live longer healthier lives than most, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

Well said. Something is going to have to be done. The multi millionaire footballers of today will demand it.

 

[Marty]

If there was an industry where workers were routinely bumped on the head as part of their job, and it was having serious long term effects, then it would be regulated.
A cap like the one petr cech wore might be enough to deaden the impacts.

There weren't many players from the 60's on display for the chelsea game, and for people who were the fittest of their generation, you'd like to think they'd live longer healthier lives than most, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

The fact that Martin Chivers still seems to be at his full wits has to be some kind of miracle.

Very sad to hear about Kinnear. A figure of fun in his later life but you do start to wonder how early he was showing signs of this terrible illness.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

Its terribly sad but its not a disease that hits only footballers as sadly I know to well -

for football though the balls now are so much lighter than they were even back to seventies but before then how anyone headed one of the lace up leather ones is beyond me I remember kicking one that some brought over to training and it nearly broke my foot

Thing is training kids give them half the chance and they all want to 'do headers'

 

[Spurslove]

More sad news for us this week...

Our former player, Joe Kinnear has had to be admitted into full-time care with late stage dementia. Only 74...

His wife Bonnie said "It's just awful. They insure footballers against breakages, so why not against dementia? There must be enough money in football to help those that need it, and they must take further steps to make the game safer for those playing now and in the future. More has to be done in both areas. This is not about us, it's about the whole of football.

In 2014 he began to get moody and depressed. I thought this isn't right. Then he got aggressive in certain situations. It just wasn't Joe". (The Times)

Another old hero with this terrible condition...

.

Doesn't the PFA help these footballers?

 

[MJW]

First game I ever attended back in 74/75 was Joes’ testimonial at the Goldstone Ground Brighton after Joe had signed for them.

Brighton 1 Tottenham 6 and the things this then 9 year old remembered most was Micky Steads’ back heel for the 6th (I think) and Joes’ penalty for the seagulls.

Cameo appearances from Terry Venables, Dave Mackay and (topically) Jimmy Greaves.

Good memories with my now departed father.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

?

 

[chinaman]

The fact that Martin Chivers still seems to be at his full wits has to be some kind of miracle.

Very sad to hear about Kinnear. A figure of fun in his later life but you do start to wonder how early he was showing signs of this terrible illness.

Actually I never thought that it could have affected Martin Peters as most of his headers were glancing ones instead of meeting the ball full force.

 

[whitesocks]

Its terribly sad but its not a disease that hits only footballers as sadly I know to well -

for football though the balls now are so much lighter than they were even back to seventies but before then how anyone headed one of the lace up leather ones is beyond me I remember kicking one that some brought over to training and it nearly broke my foot

Thing is training kids give them half the chance and they all want to 'do headers'

But the balls are not lighter.
It is true that the old scuffed up balls we played with at school would soak up water and become medicine balls but professionals would have shiny new balls to play with. They would be polished and water proof. Yet still dangerous.

It is funny to think this problem has only appeared in footballers from the 60's generation onwards as maybe the earlier generations had wars to attend and that gave their brains time to recover...if they weren't vaporised.

 

[Jules77]

I think this generation's rugby players might have serious problems with all sorts of life reducing injuries too

But yeah, a 1960s football was definitely not safe to head

People say that today’s ball is no better to head. It may be lighter, but it travels faster.

force = mass x acceleration

 

[ralphs bald spot]

But the balls are not lighter.
It is true that the old scuffed up balls we played with at school would soak up water and become medicine balls but professionals would have shiny new balls to play with. They would be polished and water proof. Yet still dangerous.

It is funny to think this problem has only appeared in footballers from the 60's generation onwards as maybe the earlier generations had wars to attend and that gave their brains time to recover...if they weren't vaporised.

honestly ? I guess you must be right when you think about it balls have to weigh a certain weight I don't know if that's change over the years be interesting to know

I do remember getting a point blank volley on the head and it knocked me senseless explains lot when I look back

 

[Spurslove]

If there was an industry where workers were routinely bumped on the head as part of their job, and it was having serious long term effects, then it would be regulated.
A cap like the one petr cech wore might be enough to deaden the impacts.

There weren't many players from the 60's on display for the chelsea game, and for people who were the fittest of their generation, you'd like to think they'd live longer healthier lives than most, but it doesn't seem to work like that.

You mean like boxing?

.

 

[Spurslove]

This from today's telegraph...

Kinnear ‘living with dementia’ as family urge football to act

(by Jeremy Wilson CHIEF SPORTS REPORTER)

The family of Joe Kinnear have announced that the former Tottenham Hotspur defender and Wimbledon manager is living with dementia, and have called for urgent action to tackle the national game’s care crisis.

Joe Kinnear was first diagnosed in 2015, but his condition has recently deteriorated

Kinnear was diagnosed with an aggressive form of early onset vascular dementia in 2015, the year after leaving Newcastle United, and his condition is being made public with the blessing of his wife Bonnie and daughter Russelle, who want football to mitigate the risk facing current and future generations and establish a fund for those incapacitated by neuro-degenerative disease.

Kinnear, 74, was diagnosed in his late sixties but has deteriorated to a “late stage” of his illness and the family are preparing to admit him into full-time care. Having seen many of her husband’s team-mates and football friends suffer at a similarly young age, Bonnie suspects that Kinnear’s dementia was caused by repetitive heading.

“I’ve been greatly saddened to see so many former players battling dementia,” she said. “It’s just awful. There must be enough money in football to help those who need it. And they must take further steps to make the game safer for those playing now and in the future. More has to be done. This is not about us – it’s about the whole of football.”


‘It is devastating. You’re watching someone you love disappear’

The family of Joe Kinnear tell of their heartbreak at his decline with dementia and the part heading a ball played in it

For Bonnie Kinnear, it was the drastic shift in her husband Joe’s once happy-go-lucky personality that told her something was seriously wrong. “He started to get moody – a bit depressed,” she says, casting her mind back to the end of 2014. “I thought, ‘This isn’t right.’ Then he got aggressive in certain situations. It just wasn’t Joe. It was a problem trying to get him to see somebody, but we eventually got him to a doctor and he was diagnosed in 2015.

“They classed it as early onset vascular dementia and, since then, he has just deteriorated. He’s in the late stage. It is heartbreaking to see how someone can change. He was larger than life. He loved people. He’d walk in a pub, buy everyone a drink, tell funny stories and be the life and soul of the party.”

Bonnie and Joe had first met in 1969 through a mutual friend after she had also joined his Tottenham Hotspur team-mates Jimmy Greaves and Dave Mackay for a pub lunch at the Old Hall Tavern in Chingford. That Bonnie would not be overly impressed by the company of some of the most celebrated footballers in the country was evident when she greeted Greaves with the opening line: “So what do you do?” She now laughs: “That was my knowledge of football, but Jimmy didn’t mind – a lovely, lovely guy. There was such camaraderie. It was an honour to put the shirt on – finances didn’t come into it.”


The fact that Kinnear had delivered a man-of-the-match performance as the youngest player in the 1967 FA Cup final win against Chelsea was naturally also lost on Bonnie. But she was attracted by his effervescent personality and they have been together ever since. “Exciting and worrying – but I wouldn’t change it for the world,” says Bonnie, when asked to describe the roller-coaster experience of being married to a leading player and manager.

Alongside the likes of Greaves, Mackay, Terry Venables and Pat Jennings, Kinnear also won two League Cups and a Uefa Cup as part of Bill Nicholson’s legendary Spurs side. His weekly wage would eventually rise from £20 to £60, but a knee injury cut short his playing career at 30.

Kinnear initially owned a pub called The Stag, but also took his coaching badges and the lure of management proved impossible to resist. He worked in Nepal, and then Dubai and Doncaster with his mentor Mackay, before the chance to succeed Peter Withe at Wimbledon in 1992. What followed over the next seven seasons was among the best managerial achievements in the Premier League era, peaking with Wimbledon finishing a club-record sixth in 1994 and Kinnear named manager of the year. These were also classic “Crazy Gang” years off the pitch and Kinnear was among the best-known and longest-serving Premier League managers.

The answerphone message on the family home summed him up. “I can’t answer you at the moment but, if it’s the chairman of Juventus, Barcelona or Real Madrid, don’t worry, I’ll ring you right back,” it said.

“We would go on holiday to Spain and the taxi drivers would sing ‘Wimbledon, Wimbledon’ at him –Joe would be recognised wherever we went in the world,” says Bonnie.


Wimbledon were again in the top six and had reached three domestic cup semi-finals in two years by the night of March 3, 1999, when Kinnear collapsed due to a heart attack before the Premier League match against Sheffield Wednesday.

Bonnie says that he would have died if it had happened on the team bus, but that his life was saved by the instant medical attention he received at Hillsborough. A heart bypass operation meant leaving his job, but he was back in the dugout for Luton Town two years later and briefly Nottingham Forest, before his surprise appointment at Newcastle United in September 2008.

Kinnear’s tenure memorably began with an explosive, expletive-laden press conference. Bonnie laughs at the suggestion that his judgment might already have been impacted. “Oh my God! But that was Joe,” she says. “To me that was mild compared to what he could have done. He is naughty, we know that, but he has a lovable nature.”
Russelle, his daughter, also laughs. “No excusing that one,” she says. “When the newspapers came out, and he’d had a rant, we just hid.”

The pressure of management, says Bonnie, was huge. “When they lost, the kids, and even the dog, would run when they heard the key in the door. We left him alone, but it just consumes you as a manager.”

Newcastle were outside the relegation zone in 15th when Kinnear felt unwell at the team hotel in February 2009 before a match against West Bromwich Albion. He would subsequently have a triple heart bypass operation and never managed again. The Kinnears then had to deal with the tragic loss of their son Elliot from cancer. Russelle says that Kinnear has been a wonderful grandfather to her children, Nick and Dan, who are now 23 and 19.

‘He was the life and soul of the party. We need to educate the next generation so they don’t do these heading drills’

“He loved watching them play football and cricket and encouraged them hugely – they live for football and we need to be educating the next generation so they don’t do these heading drills,” she says.

Kinnear did return to Newcastle as director of football in 2013, leaving the following year, before his dementia diagnosis. The ensuing years have, to put it bluntly, been a living nightmare and, as Kinnear’s dementia has taken hold, Bonnie’s mind has been cast back to all those hours he would spend heading a football. And then seeing so many other players suffer in the same way.

“They would get called back in the afternoon and he would head a ball that was hanging from the ceiling for 40 minutes,” she says. “It’s tragic. Kathy and Martin [Peters] were close friends. I speak to Kathy all the time. Dave [Mackay] was such a vibrant man. And then suddenly you have it coming into your life.”

Bonnie received valuable advice and emotional support from the Jeff Astle Foundation and the League Managers Association. Medication has helped and, while he has no apparent memory of his career, she says there are still occasional moments of light and a twinkle again in his eye. “Dawn [Astle] and the LMA have been a great help, but we just need now to get him into full-time care. We are not at a happy state at the moment.”

Russelle points out that Kinnear was from a generation when wages were nothing like today. “They don’t have the help – and they didn’t have the money back then either,” she says. “Mum does not leave his side – she does everything for him. They are so dedicated to each other, but it is beyond exhausting. And it is devastating. You are watching someone you love disappear.”

Bloody tragic.

.

 

[Spurslove]

I'm sorry to have added this to a thread already started yesterday, my apologies but it wasn't apparent when I checked first time round.