Joe Lewis and insider trading

[brasil_spur]

The post you initially agreed with literally was saying exactly that

It didn't, unless again you starting "reading" things into what the poster is saying rather than reading the actual words.

As you seemingly aren't interested in actually posting what has been said, here's the post I replied to:

Can people stop playing the good morals card now whenever changing ownership comes up. Because these lot are awful people.

All that's said here is that we don't have a "good morals card". That's 100% accurate - we don't. We have a "bad morals but still not as bad as your morals" card that we can play, depending on which ownership regime is being discussed.

The other part of this comment is "Because these lot are awful people." - again 100% accurate.

I really don't see what you're reading in all this that isn't there, but it isn't there. Although if you think it is then please quote something rather than just saying things that aren't true.

Your post says that now nobody can have a moral high ground over Qatari owners.

Again please quote, because here is the verbatim words I wrote and they literally do not say that:

brasil_spur said:
Sure he isn't as bad, morally, as the Saudi's, probably not the Qatari's either. But the man is morally bankrupt (we've known this since black Wednesday).

I'm actually saying, verbatim, that he isn't probably as bad, morally, as the Qatari's. At no point have I state that nobody can have a moral high ground over Qataris.

I think your confusion here is coming because of the use of the phrase "good morals card" by the OP and your use of "moral high ground". You can still have the moral high ground whilst also not having a good morals card to play, the two aren't mutually exclusive.

The point here is that I've never mentioned "moral high ground" - that's a phrase you've claimed that I've used (and the OP) that in fact was your phrase, hence the strawman accusation.

I'm glad you're rowing back...but paddle in hand you certainly are.

I'm not rowing back, but you've created a set of words that you think I've said, or agreed with (side note - quoting a post doesn't equate to agreeing with a post) - but in reality the "rowing back" is not real because I never said the things you claim I said or agreed with, you came up with that wording and are now arguing that I'm rowing back wording that I never said.


tl:dr; the specific words people use matter in understanding what they are saying.

 

[muppetman]

 

[ukdy]

A few quick points from there:

• This is a grand jury indictment, so it's pretty fucking serious.
• There are 19 counts in total that he's been indicted on that relate to 4 separate companies: AAC, Solid Biosciences, Mirati Therapeutics and BCTG.
• "Using the information stolen by JOSEPH LEWIS" - so corporate theft also on the list of things he did wrong, albeit not something he's been indicted for here.
• There are 13 overt acts committed by Joe Lewis that are specifically listed in this document.

IMO although he'll have some decent lawyers on this he's a bit fucked by the looks of it.

Guess what being a billionaire buys you.....?

 

[talkshowhost86]

I see the BSoDL and BSoJL are out in So we really don't have a moral high ground from which to preach right now. "our owner is less morally corrupt and less of a crook than your's" - doesn't really have much of a ring to it.

Here you go @brasil_spur

"We don't have a moral high ground"

That's equating Lewis with Qatar/Saudi

 

[mil1lion]

Another strawman fighter out in the wild today. Where has this been said? Where is the absolute moral outrage in this thread that you're referring to? What's being said, when you read the posts properly, is that Lewis is very far from squeeky clean, something that was well known anyway, but the fact that as of today he could potentially be looking at a 10-50yr+ prison sentence adds a bit more seriousness to some of the shit he's likely done.

Where has what been said? What absolute moral outrage did I mention? I merely suggested it's as if people haven't broken the law because people are sticking the knife in. First of all he hasn't been found guilty and secondly people don't know the facts and yet are calling for his head. There's also comments suggesting the Middle East owners don't seem so bad either. Name any owner who doesn't have some dirt on them. Some are just way worse than others. Well just have to see what comes of this first before we know how bad Lewis is.

 

[ShriekinKnight]

 

[brasil_spur]

Here you go @brasil_spur

"We don't have a moral high ground"

That's equating Lewis with Qatar/Saudi

I mean the words right after this are: "our owner is less morally corrupt and less of a crook than your's"

So it doesn't equate it at all, I'm literally saying that Joe Lewis is less morally corrupt than Qatar (i'm not sure there's ever been take over interest from Saudi has there?).

Are they both morally corrupt - yep, but as I've said - less so than Qatar etc..

But that's a fair point, i'll rephrase that to an amended:

So we really don't have much of a moral high ground from which to preach right now. "our owner is less morally corrupt and less of a crook than your's" - doesn't really have much of a ring to it.

 

[brasil_spur]

Where has what been said? What absolute moral outrage did I mention? I merely suggested it's as if people haven't broken the law because people are sticking the knife in. First of all he hasn't been found guilty and secondly people don't know the facts and yet are calling for his head. There's also comments suggesting the Middle East owners don't seem so bad either. Name any owner who doesn't have some dirt on them. Some are just way worse than others. Well just have to see what comes of this first before we know how bad Lewis is.

Yeh fair point, bad wording, this was in reference to the: "The way people go on at times is like they never broke the law." - are people in this thread going on like they never broke the law?

I think what's happened is that many people don't realise quite how serious the charges against Joe are and the potential length of prison sentence that could come with them.

I'd guarantee that every user in this thread (assuming that's what you mean but "people") has never been indicted by a grand jury and could potentially spend 10-50+ years in prison if found guilty of the indictments. That's a bit more serious than say doing 80mph down the motorway or whatever trivial law breaking you're referring to.

 

[yankspurs]

Just when people were starting to get dreams of an OJ Simpson esque slow car chase but with boats. Shame.

 

[sundanceyid10]

Is there any chance we will be stripped of all our titles during the ENIC reign including the Audi Cup, Peace Cup and the big prize - League Cup 2009?

God forbid we lose the cheese room.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Just when people were starting to get dreams of an OJ Simpson esque slow car chase but with boats. Shame.

With Lewis chucking unwanted Spurs players off the back to try and slow the authorities down.

"Stop right there Mr Lewis"

*Ndombele flies through the police windscreen*

 

[dovahkiin]

Tottenham will face no action despite Joe Lewis indictment in US

Premier League believes British billionaire – who US attorney alleges ran “brazen insider trading scheme” – is not involved in running club

www.telegraph.co.uk

Lewis gave up any significant control in Tottenham last year and it has emerged that he also gave up control of ENIC, the company that owns Spurs.
The Premier League have confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they are satisfied that Lewis is not part of the ownership of Tottenham and that he has nothing to do with the running of the club

Spoiler: full text

Tottenham Hotspur do not face any threat of Premier League action over the club’s former owner Joe Lewis being indicted by US prosecutors over an alleged “brazen insider trading scheme”.
Lewis gave up any significant control in Tottenham last year and it has emerged that he also gave up control of ENIC, the company that owns Spurs.
The Premier League have confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they are satisfied that Lewis is not part of the ownership of Tottenham and that he has nothing to do with the running of the club.
Spurs, therefore, face no threat of sanctions or even being forced to sell the club should Lewis be found guilty of “classic corporate corruption”.
Lewis, who bought a controlling stake in Tottenham from Alan Sugar in 2001, is accused of leaking information to “romantic partners, his personal assistants, his pilots and his friends”.
The 86-year-old billionaire faces a total of 19 charges, all of which carry lengthy jail terms. “Joe Lewis is a wealthy man, but as we allege he used insider information to compensate his employees, or to shower gifts on his friends and lovers,” alleges Damian Williams, attorney for the southern district of New York. “That’s classic corporate corruption. It’s cheating and it’s against the law.”
There are 13 counts of securities fraud, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; three further counts of securities fraud, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison; and three counts of conspiracy, each of which carries a maximum five years.
According to the indictment unsealed in Manhattan federal court on Tuesday, Lewis enabled his associates to collectively make millions of dollars using the stolen information, which included favourable results from clinical trials.
Lewis, one of Britain’s richest men, immediately denied the charges in a statement via a lawyer. “The government has made an egregious error in judgement in charging Mr Lewis, an 86-year-old man of impeccable integrity and prodigious accomplishment,” the statement said. “Mr Lewis has come to the US voluntarily to answer these ill-conceived charges and we will defend him vigorously in court.”
Tottenham quickly moved to distance themselves from the case. “This is a legal matter unconnected with the club and as such we have no comment,” a spokesman told Telegraph Sport.
In October last year, Tottenham issued an update to Companies House of a reorganisation of the Lewis Family Trusts that was accompanied by a Tottenham briefing that the running of the club would in no way change.
It emerged on Wednesday, following news of the indictment, that the Family Discretionary Trust, of which Lewis is not a beneficiary, has also taken majority control of ENIC.
Lewis’s multi-billion pound investments are largely held through a portfolio company, Tavistock Group. He is alleged to have shared information about publicly traded life science groups Solid Biosciences and Mirati Therapeutics, as well as beef producer Australian Agricultural Company (AAC) and a special purpose acquisition company, BCTG. Tavistock Group has yet to comment.
Lewis is alleged to have shared information with a girlfriend, personal assistants aboard the superyacht on which he sometimes lives, and two of his private pilots.
The allegations are said to stretch across a period of at least eight years when he used information he was given as a board member of certain companies to help those in his orbit.
In 2019, he allegedly told his pilots about the financial losses that AAC would incur as a result of flooding in Queensland. The pilots were unable to execute the trades in time, and one of them allegedly emailed their stockbroker: “just wish the Boss would have given us a little earlier heads up”.
Prosecutors also claim Lewis told a girlfriend about an upcoming transaction and the results of a clinical trial involving Solid Biosciences.

In a video on social media, Williams said: “Today I’m announcing that my office, the southern district of New York, has indicted Joe Lewis, the British billionaire, for orchestrating a brazen insider trading scheme.
“We allege that for years Joe Lewis abused access to corporate boardrooms and repeatedly provided inside information to his romantic partners, his personal assistants, his pilots and his friends.
“Those folks then traded on that inside information and made millions of dollars on the stock market. Thanks to Lewis, those bets were a sure thing.”
Lewis, who was born above an east London pub, left school at 15, joined the family catering business and went on to build up his own restaurant business. He left the UK for the Bahamas in 1979.
Lewis’ Tavistock Group, which is based in the Bahamas, has publicly-declared investments in more than 200 companies across 13 countries, including art collection works by Pablo Picasso, Henri Matisse and Gustav Klimt.

 

[yankspurs]

If it has not been posted - this is a copy of the indictment itself. I haven't finished reading it yet:

https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rlpoL.0rp2Vg/v0

One main thing is, the Grand Jury indicted him. So that means, this has been in the works for quite a while. And that fact makes the whole estate planning reasoning the club gave last October for Lewis ceasing control a bit dicey. Could very well have been done to shield the club.

 

[the yid]

Tottenham will face no action despite Joe Lewis indictment in US

Premier League believes British billionaire – who US attorney alleges ran “brazen insider trading scheme” – is not involved in running club

www.telegraph.co.uk

Lewis gave up any significant control in Tottenham last year and it has emerged that he also gave up control of ENIC, the company that owns Spurs.
The Premier League have confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they are satisfied that Lewis is not part of the ownership of Tottenham and that he has nothing to do with the running of the club

Spoiler: full text

Tottenham Hotspur do not face any threat of Premier League action over the club’s former owner Joe Lewis being indicted by US prosecutors over an alleged “brazen insider trading scheme”.
Lewis gave up any significant control in Tottenham last year and it has emerged that he also gave up control of ENIC, the company that owns Spurs.
The Premier League have confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they are satisfied that Lewis is not part of the ownership of Tottenham and that he has nothing to do with the running of the club.
Spurs, therefore, face no threat of sanctions or even being forced to sell the club should Lewis be found guilty of “classic corporate corruption”.
Lewis, who bought a controlling stake in Tottenham from Alan Sugar in 2001, is accused of leaking information to “romantic partners, his personal assistants, his pilots and his friends”.
The 86-year-old billionaire faces a total of 19 charges, all of which carry lengthy jail terms. “Joe Lewis is a wealthy man, but as we allege he used insider information to compensate his employees, or to shower gifts on his friends and lovers,” alleges Damian Williams, attorney for the southern district of New York. “That’s classic corporate corruption. It’s cheating and it’s against the law.”
There are 13 counts of securities fraud, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; three further counts of securities fraud, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison; and three counts of conspiracy, each of which carries a maximum five years.
According to the indictment unsealed in Manhattan federal court on Tuesday, Lewis enabled his associates to collectively make millions of dollars using the stolen information, which included favourable results from clinical trials.
Lewis, one of Britain’s richest men, immediately denied the charges in a statement via a lawyer. “The government has made an egregious error in judgement in charging Mr Lewis, an 86-year-old man of impeccable integrity and prodigious accomplishment,” the statement said. “Mr Lewis has come to the US voluntarily to answer these ill-conceived charges and we will defend him vigorously in court.”
Tottenham quickly moved to distance themselves from the case. “This is a legal matter unconnected with the club and as such we have no comment,” a spokesman told Telegraph Sport.
In October last year, Tottenham issued an update to Companies House of a reorganisation of the Lewis Family Trusts that was accompanied by a Tottenham briefing that the running of the club would in no way change.
It emerged on Wednesday, following news of the indictment, that the Family Discretionary Trust, of which Lewis is not a beneficiary, has also taken majority control of ENIC.
Lewis’s multi-billion pound investments are largely held through a portfolio company, Tavistock Group. He is alleged to have shared information about publicly traded life science groups Solid Biosciences and Mirati Therapeutics, as well as beef producer Australian Agricultural Company (AAC) and a special purpose acquisition company, BCTG. Tavistock Group has yet to comment.
Lewis is alleged to have shared information with a girlfriend, personal assistants aboard the superyacht on which he sometimes lives, and two of his private pilots.
The allegations are said to stretch across a period of at least eight years when he used information he was given as a board member of certain companies to help those in his orbit.
In 2019, he allegedly told his pilots about the financial losses that AAC would incur as a result of flooding in Queensland. The pilots were unable to execute the trades in time, and one of them allegedly emailed their stockbroker: “just wish the Boss would have given us a little earlier heads up”.
Prosecutors also claim Lewis told a girlfriend about an upcoming transaction and the results of a clinical trial involving Solid Biosciences.

In a video on social media, Williams said: “Today I’m announcing that my office, the southern district of New York, has indicted Joe Lewis, the British billionaire, for orchestrating a brazen insider trading scheme.
“We allege that for years Joe Lewis abused access to corporate boardrooms and repeatedly provided inside information to his romantic partners, his personal assistants, his pilots and his friends.
“Those folks then traded on that inside information and made millions of dollars on the stock market. Thanks to Lewis, those bets were a sure thing.”
Lewis, who was born above an east London pub, left school at 15, joined the family catering business and went on to build up his own restaurant business. He left the UK for the Bahamas in 1979.
Lewis’ Tavistock Group, which is based in the Bahamas, has publicly-declared investments in more than 200 companies across 13 countries, including art collection works by Pablo Picasso, Henri Matisse and Gustav Klimt.

But he told Levy to sell Kane

 

[CantSmileWithoutYou]

But he told Levy to sell Kane

Spot on....I've been thinking of this all day

 

[tony_parkes]

I am writing this message from my high horse on morally high ground whilst navigating with my moral compass and I think it's fair to say that I can barely see Joe Lewis from my lofty position.

 

[yankspurs]

Tottenham will face no action despite Joe Lewis indictment in US

Premier League believes British billionaire – who US attorney alleges ran “brazen insider trading scheme” – is not involved in running club

www.telegraph.co.uk

Lewis gave up any significant control in Tottenham last year and it has emerged that he also gave up control of ENIC, the company that owns Spurs.
The Premier League have confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they are satisfied that Lewis is not part of the ownership of Tottenham and that he has nothing to do with the running of the club

Spoiler: full text

Tottenham Hotspur do not face any threat of Premier League action over the club’s former owner Joe Lewis being indicted by US prosecutors over an alleged “brazen insider trading scheme”.
Lewis gave up any significant control in Tottenham last year and it has emerged that he also gave up control of ENIC, the company that owns Spurs.
The Premier League have confirmed to Telegraph Sport that they are satisfied that Lewis is not part of the ownership of Tottenham and that he has nothing to do with the running of the club.
Spurs, therefore, face no threat of sanctions or even being forced to sell the club should Lewis be found guilty of “classic corporate corruption”.
Lewis, who bought a controlling stake in Tottenham from Alan Sugar in 2001, is accused of leaking information to “romantic partners, his personal assistants, his pilots and his friends”.
The 86-year-old billionaire faces a total of 19 charges, all of which carry lengthy jail terms. “Joe Lewis is a wealthy man, but as we allege he used insider information to compensate his employees, or to shower gifts on his friends and lovers,” alleges Damian Williams, attorney for the southern district of New York. “That’s classic corporate corruption. It’s cheating and it’s against the law.”
There are 13 counts of securities fraud, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 20 years in prison; three further counts of securities fraud, each of which carries a maximum sentence of 25 years in prison; and three counts of conspiracy, each of which carries a maximum five years.
According to the indictment unsealed in Manhattan federal court on Tuesday, Lewis enabled his associates to collectively make millions of dollars using the stolen information, which included favourable results from clinical trials.
Lewis, one of Britain’s richest men, immediately denied the charges in a statement via a lawyer. “The government has made an egregious error in judgement in charging Mr Lewis, an 86-year-old man of impeccable integrity and prodigious accomplishment,” the statement said. “Mr Lewis has come to the US voluntarily to answer these ill-conceived charges and we will defend him vigorously in court.”
Tottenham quickly moved to distance themselves from the case. “This is a legal matter unconnected with the club and as such we have no comment,” a spokesman told Telegraph Sport.
In October last year, Tottenham issued an update to Companies House of a reorganisation of the Lewis Family Trusts that was accompanied by a Tottenham briefing that the running of the club would in no way change.
It emerged on Wednesday, following news of the indictment, that the Family Discretionary Trust, of which Lewis is not a beneficiary, has also taken majority control of ENIC.
Lewis’s multi-billion pound investments are largely held through a portfolio company, Tavistock Group. He is alleged to have shared information about publicly traded life science groups Solid Biosciences and Mirati Therapeutics, as well as beef producer Australian Agricultural Company (AAC) and a special purpose acquisition company, BCTG. Tavistock Group has yet to comment.
Lewis is alleged to have shared information with a girlfriend, personal assistants aboard the superyacht on which he sometimes lives, and two of his private pilots.
The allegations are said to stretch across a period of at least eight years when he used information he was given as a board member of certain companies to help those in his orbit.
In 2019, he allegedly told his pilots about the financial losses that AAC would incur as a result of flooding in Queensland. The pilots were unable to execute the trades in time, and one of them allegedly emailed their stockbroker: “just wish the Boss would have given us a little earlier heads up”.
Prosecutors also claim Lewis told a girlfriend about an upcoming transaction and the results of a clinical trial involving Solid Biosciences.

In a video on social media, Williams said: “Today I’m announcing that my office, the southern district of New York, has indicted Joe Lewis, the British billionaire, for orchestrating a brazen insider trading scheme.
“We allege that for years Joe Lewis abused access to corporate boardrooms and repeatedly provided inside information to his romantic partners, his personal assistants, his pilots and his friends.
“Those folks then traded on that inside information and made millions of dollars on the stock market. Thanks to Lewis, those bets were a sure thing.”
Lewis, who was born above an east London pub, left school at 15, joined the family catering business and went on to build up his own restaurant business. He left the UK for the Bahamas in 1979.
Lewis’ Tavistock Group, which is based in the Bahamas, has publicly-declared investments in more than 200 companies across 13 countries, including art collection works by Pablo Picasso, Henri Matisse and Gustav Klimt.

Besides the fact that Joe Lewis is part of the ownership group, this wasn't going to effect the immediate future of the club because he ceased control to lawyers last October. Unless there is more to come from the Prosecutors office, the club will function as normal for now. But in the medium term future? Who knows what will happen. I do think by the end of this, the club will be put up for sale.

 

[riggi]

 

[SandroClegane]

You don't become a billionaire if you have any moral compass. Capitalism is evil, eat the rich.

 

[mil1lion]

Yeh fair point, bad wording, this was in reference to the: "The way people go on at times is like they never broke the law." - are people in this thread going on like they never broke the law?

I think what's happened is that many people don't realise quite how serious the charges against Joe are and the potential length of prison sentence that could come with them.

I'd guarantee that every user in this thread (assuming that's what you mean but "people") has never been indicted by a grand jury and could potentially spend 10-50+ years in prison if found guilty of the indictments. That's a bit more serious than say doing 80mph down the motorway or whatever trivial law breaking you're referring to.

It was more in reference to how people were comparing Lewis to other owners like there is any way to get an owner who has done nothing wrong. I think any owner is going to have some dirt on them as not sure you can be that wealthy and not to be honest. At the end of the day breaking the law is breaking the law so seems pointless to compare what's worse. That's what the courts are for and we have to find out what happens first. I mean Mendy just got found not guilty yet would have been deemed it by many. It just seems people are too quick to judge. In the case of Lewis people are already anti ENIC so it feels like they're quick to jump all over this. It's actually got to a point now I even sense a level of joy when a bad news story like this pops up and people can jump over it. That's just how it comes across to me though.