Jose Mourinho

[Gb160]

coin is coming? What does that mean?

its a typo..he means Colin.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

coin is coming? What does that mean?

What do you think it means?

 

[Metalhead]

thanks mate interesting stuff. But I don't think Poch was that different. Or brave- did we ever truly understand what that meant?

After Peak Poch/Danny/Kyle/Mousa/Victor, his philisophy was to bore the opposition to death by endlessly rolling the ball across the back line. Inferior teams tended to sit back and think fine, we only want a point. Very few came to press.

I remember having to explain to my son during many a sterile first half that we weren't actually trying to score, just tease the opposition out/make them chase. He said well they're not coming out, so we'd beat the queues for half time grub.

I have come to the conclusion that he can only have been referring to being brave in relation to the transfer market because his in game management was not particularly brave by the end - the style was pretty pedestrian as you have alluded to in your post and he didn't seem to like making impact substitutions.

 

[daryl hannah]

What do you think it means?

However, he says 'it looks like' coin is coming.

 

[Monkey boy]

What do you think it means?

he’s since edited the post so that it makes sense. The original post made no sense especially to someone whose English is their second language. Smart ass

 

[Deleted member 27995]

its a typo..he means Colin.

Millions of Colins ...That has tickled me.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

he’s since edited the post so that it makes sense. The original post made no sense especially to someone whose English is their second language. Smart ass

ooooh touchy

 

[Metalhead]

he’s since edited the post so that it makes sense. The original post made no sense especially to someone whose English is their second language. Smart ass

Hopefully - optimistically, it would seem that he is suggesting that although the stadium has impacted on the transfer budget, more money will be available.

 

[CowInAComa]

True in theory but to do what you say requires defenders and MFs who are comfy on the ball (wont lose it). Who do you trust to be able to do that? the only one i trust is Lo Celso and he's not even a nailed on starter. Maybe Winks. But Dier? Our FBs? Our CBs? nah. Hoofing forward beats losing the ball in your own third.

How did we used to maintain 70% possession in endless games with exactly those players, Dier and CBs.

Dont make me laugh, There are a dozen teams in the division who manage to play a decent progressive passing game with players half as talented.

These attempts at justifying our weird hide behind the sofa tactics (oooooo look its scary Norwich and southampton.) are getting increasingly bizarre. All of a sudden our best tactic is to hoof it long every time because every player in our first team is a leaden footed half wit incapable of playing a passing game? OuR SqUads The WorSted SquAd EvA! Its like everyone has lost their mind over a couple injuries (we played not unlike this with Kane and definitely whilst we had Son)

Literally picking a team of internationals and brought 5 ball players in the last 2 windows and yet we cant risk trying to play a bit...

 

[mpickard2087]

The one thing that is both surprising and concerning though is our lack of ability to defend. I can understand the tactics of retreating, conceding possession and playing on the counter, but in doing so you would have expected him to have at least made us more difficult to break down in the process.

We are not frustrating the opposition, in fact we’re giving up numerous chances for them to score no matter who we play.

*Long post alert*

I'll be repeating a lot of what I said over the weekend, but it gets me out of doing some work so why not. Anyhow, once again to pick out this post and others with similar sentiments, why was this to be expected with what's available?

Just pick apart the options available in the squad:

Defence

Aurier - His instinct, in addition to the current tactics, is to bomb forward. Positionally isn't great and prone to switching off, some weeks does the job many weeks doesn't.

Alderweireld - Past it. Reduced to slow, timid, passive defending. Some weeks does ok, this is by no means a given though anymore.

Vertonghen - Definitely past it.

Sanchez - Not perfect, not the finished article yet, but a decent robust option.

Foyth - Barely seen these days but he's an option so we'll include him. A very raw defender learning his trade (who many Spurs fans will argue will never be good enough). In any case, he's an attack minded, ball playing centre back bought for the sort of team that enjoys the vast majority of the ball, dominating proceedings and wanting centre backs to play out and get involved in play.

Tanganga - Robust, athletic, versatile, keen as mustard. But also a total rookie who will, and has, made errors.

Davies - At this best a steady eddie. But however he is going, lets be honest as soon as anyone runs at him there is a big problem and he is often badly exposed.


Other defensive-minded players/options

Dier - At his best can sit and screen the defence. 2020 version of him though is really struggling and his mobility has declined so much that midfield no longer looks an option for him.

Wanyama - Common consensus is totally finished after numerous injuries. Disappeared from the squad and the club has been trying to offload him since last summer.

Sessegnon - Versatile option down the left flank. No one, including those at the club apparently, knows what his best/long term role is. Can play left back, but as an attack minded one and is also a rookie when it comes to defensive nous.


Quick summary - some options there, how many in present condition are reliable though in terms of a defensive, safety first, soak up pressure approach? Sanchez, possibly Davies, possibly on a good day Alderweireld and Aurier. With a rookie in Tanganga. That's not much.......

Then we have:


Midfielders

Sissoko - Nearly included him in defensive options, but I don't think he is. Will run around all day for you, can disrupt play, positionally isn't very good and his use is to get stuck into players rather than sit and screen in a low block.

Winks - Neat and tidy ball playing midfielder. The defensive aspect is the weaker part of his game, but what can he do in regards to this? Well he is tenacious, reasonably quick and mobile, and can and has demonstrated ability to press aggressively and win the ball back in decent areas higher up the pitch.

Lo Celso - More attacking ball playing midfielder. Like Winks his defensive qualities are being tenacious and not afraid to muck in, will and can press the opposition and disrupt play and win the ball back earlier, but not his forte to screen the defence.

Ndombele - Common consensus seems to be that his attitude and aptitude for the defensive side of things is......… lacking. Not seen any evidence he is a viable candidate to sit and screen in a low block.

Gedson - Not someone we know a huge amount about, nor have been able to conclude much in his outings so far. Seems a fairly mobile, versatile player but by all accounts a more attack minded player.

Skipp - A smidgen more robust and tenacious version of Winks. He is still a rookie though and from what I have seen of him coming through the system isn't really an out and out true sitting midfielder who will shield the back four.


Attackers/Wide players

Alli - Will drop in and do a job in midfield. Usually at the expense of anything from him going forward though.

Lamela - Gives 200% when we don't have the ball, but is only instinct is to chase, harry, and get about the opposition. Cant really be trusted to tuck back in on a flank and make the 'two banks of four' or whatever we are going with.

Son - Tries to get back and help do defensive duties on his flank. Quite often not very good at it though, and this only gets magnified more and more in a low block system in behind the ball. Just not someone who would spring to mind as a good 'defensive winger'.

Moura - Utterly random footballer. If the ball is in his immediate vicinity he will try his heart out to compete for it, but in general he has nearly zero nous or ability to read a game or be proactive in what's happening around him and getting in the right positions, this includes when we dont have the ball. Cannot be trusted to defend a flank.

Bergwijn - Early days, but most of what has been said in regards to other wide players I'd apply to him too on the little evidence thus far.



Now with Mourinho style football, both his park the bus extreme stuff and the more usual low-ish block to draw the opposition out and then quick counters, this requires a lot of individual quality, and that's just defensively before we even get on to what you do with the ball. Very good pure defenders. Because you have to be able to soak up pressure and have a very disciplined two banks of four, at the minimum back four and cm2.

As I've done, on paper does that look a suitable approach to go with? For the 'defensive' players you have a mix of declining or declined, rookies, and possibly a couple of solid reliable options.

Then you have a couple of attack minded fullbacks, a Sissoko, small ball playing midfielders whose only real defensive abilities are to press and nick in, not sit, and attacking players who also want to have the ball at their feet and are not diligent and probably don't have the ability in getting back in behind the ball.

With this post I've largely tried to just focus on defending/without the ball, and the state of play regarding options. I'm constantly scratching my head at the claims we have to play this way, when most of the squad is just totally ill-suited to it. It's no wonder we don't look defensively secure at all. Like fuck is this the optimal way to play with the squad at our disposal.

But then reality has to kick in. Lets be honest, we're playing this way because Mourinho wants us to. It's what he does, what he knows, what he believes in. Now, whether I personally agree with it or not or it fits my footballing tastes and ideas, I think it's entirely possible he could have success in future with us and he gets to shape the squad in his image etc. Right now he is effectively shoe-horning his approach onto mostly unsuited players and it is no surprise we look a bit of a mess and, again lets be honest, stole some results that have given some mask to performances. With these players, what we do in the defensive aspect isn't going to change for however long they last at the club. It's more suited, I'd argue as set out above, to playing a different way but that is never going to happen as we're off down a different path and the squad will be changed to reflect this.

 

[daryl hannah]

I love José atm - he's so very clear and right about everything. Much more wisdom than in his previous managerial posts. Please watch if you haven't.

 

[CowInAComa]

has anyone ever avoided relegation when theyve lost 2-3 first team players to injury before?

Its hard to play half a season with only 8 players on the pitch.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

has anyone ever avoided relegation when theyve lost 2-3 first team players to injury before?

Its hard to play half a season with only 8 players on the pitch.

Bet you that they haven't lost two thirds of their goals among those three players.

 

[dagraham]

*Long post alert*

I'll be repeating a lot of what I said over the weekend, but it gets me out of doing some work so why not. Anyhow, once again to pick out this post and others with similar sentiments, why was this to be expected with what's available?

Just pick apart the options available in the squad:

Defence

Aurier - His instinct, in addition to the current tactics, is to bomb forward. Positionally isn't great and prone to switching off, some weeks does the job many weeks doesn't.

Alderweireld - Past it. Reduced to slow, timid, passive defending. Some weeks does ok, this is by no means a given though anymore.

Vertonghen - Definitely past it.

Sanchez - Not perfect, not the finished article yet, but a decent robust option.

Foyth - Barely seen these days but he's an option so we'll include him. A very raw defender learning his trade (who many Spurs fans will argue will never be good enough). In any case, he's an attack minded, ball playing centre back bought for the sort of team that enjoys the vast majority of the ball, dominating proceedings and wanting centre backs to play out and get involved in play.

Tanganga - Robust, athletic, versatile, keen as mustard. But also a total rookie who will, and has, made errors.

Davies - At this best a steady eddie. But however he is going, lets be honest as soon as anyone runs at him there is a big problem and he is often badly exposed.


Other defensive-minded players/options

Dier - At his best can sit and screen the defence. 2020 version of him though is really struggling and his mobility has declined so much that midfield no longer looks an option for him.

Wanyama - Common consensus is totally finished after numerous injuries. Disappeared from the squad and the club has been trying to offload him since last summer.

Sessegnon - Versatile option down the left flank. No one, including those at the club apparently, knows what his best/long term role is. Can play left back, but as an attack minded one and is also a rookie when it comes to defensive nous.


Quick summary - some options there, how many in present condition are reliable though in terms of a defensive, safety first, soak up pressure approach? Sanchez, possibly Davies, possibly on a good day Alderweireld and Aurier. With a rookie in Tanganga. That's not much.......

Then we have:


Midfielders

Sissoko - Nearly included him in defensive options, but I don't think he is. Will run around all day for you, can disrupt play, positionally isn't very good and his use is to get stuck into players rather than sit and screen in a low block.

Winks - Neat and tidy ball playing midfielder. The defensive aspect is the weaker part of his game, but what can he do in regards to this? Well he is tenacious, reasonably quick and mobile, and can and has demonstrated ability to press aggressively and win the ball back in decent areas higher up the pitch.

Lo Celso - More attacking ball playing midfielder. Like Winks his defensive qualities are being tenacious and not afraid to muck in, will and can press the opposition and disrupt play and win the ball back earlier, but not his forte to screen the defence.

Ndombele - Common consensus seems to be that his attitude and aptitude for the defensive side of things is......… lacking. Not seen any evidence he is a viable candidate to sit and screen in a low block.

Gedson - Not someone we know a huge amount about, nor have been able to conclude much in his outings so far. Seems a fairly mobile, versatile player but by all accounts a more attack minded player.

Skipp - A smidgen more robust and tenacious version of Winks. He is still a rookie though and from what I have seen of him coming through the system isn't really an out and out true sitting midfielder who will shield the back four.


Attackers/Wide players

Alli - Will drop in and do a job in midfield. Usually at the expense of anything from him going forward though.

Lamela - Gives 200% when we don't have the ball, but is only instinct is to chase, harry, and get about the opposition. Cant really be trusted to tuck back in on a flank and make the 'two banks of four' or whatever we are going with.

Son - Tries to get back and help do defensive duties on his flank. Quite often not very good at it though, and this only gets magnified more and more in a low block system in behind the ball. Just not someone who would spring to mind as a good 'defensive winger'.

Moura - Utterly random footballer. If the ball is in his immediate vicinity he will try his heart out to compete for it, but in general he has nearly zero nous or ability to read a game or be proactive in what's happening around him and getting in the right positions, this includes when we dont have the ball. Cannot be trusted to defend a flank.

Bergwijn - Early days, but most of what has been said in regards to other wide players I'd apply to him too on the little evidence thus far.



Now with Mourinho style football, both his park the bus extreme stuff and the more usual low-ish block to draw the opposition out and then quick counters, this requires a lot of individual quality, and that's just defensively before we even get on to what you do with the ball. Very good pure defenders. Because you have to be able to soak up pressure and have a very disciplined two banks of four, at the minimum back four and cm2.

As I've done, on paper does that look a suitable approach to go with? For the 'defensive' players you have a mix of declining or declined, rookies, and possibly a couple of solid reliable options.

Then you have a couple of attack minded fullbacks, a Sissoko, small ball playing midfielders whose only real defensive abilities are to press and nick in, not sit, and attacking players who also want to have the ball at their feet and are not diligent and probably don't have the ability in getting back in behind the ball.

With this post I've largely tried to just focus on defending/without the ball, and the state of play regarding options. I'm constantly scratching my head at the claims we have to play this way, when most of the squad is just totally ill-suited to it. It's no wonder we don't look defensively secure at all. Like fuck is this the optimal way to play with the squad at our disposal.

But then reality has to kick in. Lets be honest, we're playing this way because Mourinho wants us to. It's what he does, what he knows, what he believes in. Now, whether I personally agree with it or not or it fits my footballing tastes and ideas, I think it's entirely possible he could have success in future with us and he gets to shape the squad in his image etc. Right now he is effectively shoe-horning his approach onto mostly unsuited players and it is no surprise we look a bit of a mess and, again lets be honest, stole some results that have given some mask to performances. With these players, what we do in the defensive aspect isn't going to change for however long they last at the club. It's more suited, I'd argue as set out above, to playing a different way but that is never going to happen as we're off down a different path and the squad will be changed to reflect this.

Sorry I mentioned it now .

 

[swarvsta]

I love José atm - he's so very clear and right about everything. Much more wisdom than in his previous managerial posts. Please watch if you haven't.

I am not calling for Jose’s head and I am willing to give him time.

However, what baffles me is just now negative he is. For a serial winner, he has such a negative attitude.

I feel like the great sportsmen in history would never make such excuses. They would remain focused and positive.

I am told he is a master psychologist. How does banging this negative drum help us? He is basically saying to the players - you are doing me so proud. I don’t expect you to be able to win any games this season. It’s impossible to win without Kane and Son.

I am going to find it hard to listen to this for another two months.

 

[thebenjamin]

Just to come from the other side, arguably he is protecting the players by constantly talking about how exhausted they are and how with Kane and Son out the squad isn't equipped.

He's putting the blame for results everywhere but on the players and I suspect they will appreciate that.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Just to come from the other side, arguably he is protecting the players by constantly talking about how exhausted they are and how with Kane and Son out the squad isn't equipped.

He's putting the blame for results everywhere but on the players and I suspect they will appreciate that.

Levy and Lewis will soon tire of this. He knew exactly what he was coming into.. He makes out that he was sold Miss World, but got Susan Boyle instead.

 

[Ronwol196061]

Just to come from the other side, arguably he is protecting the players by constantly talking about how exhausted they are and how with Kane and Son out the squad isn't equipped.

He's putting the blame for results everywhere but on the players and I suspect they will appreciate that.

I think that every interview is for Levys consumption. The players are doing well but we are light with players is the mantra.Mourinho is to the pressers like Trump is to Twitter

 

[Gb160]

Levy and Lewis will soon tire of this. He knew exactly what he was coming into.. He makes out that he was sold Miss World, but got Susan Boyle instead.

No, this is what you really hope will happen...do u think Levy gives a shit what whinging fans on the internet think, or is he more concerned with the stuff that actually matters right now? ie points accumulated.
All he's said is we haven't got any fit strikers, completely factually accurate.
U should stop making things up, it's a bit weird as an adult.

 

[doctor stefan Freud]

I'll say it again, this is weird. When we win we're always 'lucky' when we lose it's never unlucky. It's the negative that always counts wether that be the teams performance or an individual player.

Not aimed at you yusrisafri but the sheer weight of ignorance, pettiness and sourness on here at times like this is actually depressing to read and it's also weird how, when there's negativity to be had how a number of people seem to thrive on it. I can't be arsed to argue it much any more because there's no pleasing some people, there's no meeting in the middle, no concession just this steadfast maintaining of a negative position and a refusal to accept any sort of mitigation, people take a position and take it to an extreme and then refuse to budge. Even slightly.

It's just so draining.

It's bad enough watching the team play without coming on here only to see people at each others throats over a fucking game of football or people who rightly or wrongly, give the impression that over the top negativity actually gives them real life steel girder hard-ons. There's way of discussing things without being, as we all can be, total dickheads totally lacking in objectivity about it. I must have had about twenty PM's from people complaining that so-and-so is being abusive or a spiteful troll etc etc, we can do without all that surely.

We're not nearly as low as we could be, some of you should remember that. We all want us to be playing better football, we all want us to finish in the top 4 and this season we probably won't. It wasn't that long ago that top 4 wasn't good enough for some people. People should remember that too.

This has been coming. There's no point in going over the reasons again that's all been covered but it's been coming and if anyone thought changing the manager was going to solve what's broken then they were wrong because it was obviously a lot more than that. So perhaps don't write that off so readily like some are doing.

Now people are complaining about the 'style'. As if it's as simple as Jose saying "Here lads, knock it about at the back a bit, play it around midfield, bash bash bosh, score a goal. Holland in 1974 style. Throw in a few dragbacks, nutmegs and Cruyff turns while you're at it will you please?" Fuck me. I can't believe we still haven't won the league. We could just as easily lose by knocking it about. Come to think of it, we were losing when we were knocking it about. And people were complaining about that too.

Hasn't the penny fucking dropped yet? Perhaps it's not the managers, or us 'knocking it about', instead of people arguing about Mourinho, Dele or whoever we should be talking about how the squad was allowed to decline, how we failed, when the time was so obviously right, to freshen up the squad, how we failed, over a number of transfer windows, to even address certain positions. Or in some cases to even sign a player, because there's where what we're seeing now has its roots.

Was it Pochettino who said the rebuild was going to be painful? Well here it is and surprise surprise, its painful and performances as well as results are reflecting that. It was hardly going to be painful otherwise was it. There is no magic switch, the squad needs work doing to it and thankfully, we've started to address that but it'll take time. Yeah, yeah, I know, SC doesn't do 'time'

But of course, the die hard negativistas won't have any of the above. It's Mourinho, it's Dele, its its and its again and again and again..........It's everything except negligence at the very top.

Meh. Bollocks, shit, piss and wank. Tell me what a silly **** I am. Go on, go start a thread about it on FTL

TLDR; Some people will never be happy, we're all ****s

I swear this is the entire synopsis of Marriage Story