Jose Mourinho

[-Afri-Coy-]

I was using the example to purely show that some of the media criticism is a bit harsh. What exactly has Mourinho done so badly previous to us that he gets such a harsh ride with the media? Fact is we have gone through a bad run of games after a very very good run of games which left us top of the league with the best defence & best strikeforce.

I get we have played badly, and I also think there needs to be some blame shown towards Mourinho however Klopp gets a completely free ride despite Liverpool being worse than us during the exact same period. It's all just the continuation of the Liverpool love-in. Even Guardiola was getting heat last season after City had won the league & they started the next season badly. A lot of the media were calling for his head. Fact is, Guardiola hasn't been through a period anywhere near as bad as Liverpools current run & yet we hear nothing on Klopp.

Keane had a right go at Klopp and it was fucking beautiful to see. They have spent so much time licking their own arses they have started to believe the hype. Once you have a team doing this it is all down hill from there.

 

[ajspurs]

Maybe all guns blazing is a hyperbolic.

10 shots, 60% possession in the first half. For us, that is pretty attack-minded football, especially in relative terms to some of our other performances. Did i say we were good or played well?? No, just that we came out with attacking intent. Son missed two sitters, Kane missed a great chance too we should have been 3 up by half time.

Leeds I think is the only recent league game that I believe we have had more first-half shots.

No but my point is also that like @fishhhandaricecake initially said, it was not a great performance, despite whatever context may be applied to it. Regardless of what the stats say about that half, I would not want to see a performance like that again. The stats may have been worse at HT from yesterday's game, I haven't checked but they were at least in scoreline but there was a massive improvement in what we saw yesterday despite that than what we saw against Fulham.

Sometimes it's about what's in between. We missed good chances yesterday in the first half but the football in between those chances was really positive. The football in between the chances at home to Fulham was terrible.

 

[dudu]

No but my point is also that like @fishhhandaricecake initially said, it was not a great performance, despite whatever context may be applied to it. Regardless of what the stats say about that half, I would not want to see a performance like that again. The stats may have been worse at HT from yesterday's game, I haven't checked but they were at least in scoreline but there was a massive improvement in what we saw yesterday despite that than what we saw against Fulham.

Sometimes it's about what's in between. We missed good chances yesterday in the first half but the football in between those chances was really positive. The football in between the chances at home to Fulham was terrible.

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. I thought we played some great football in the first half of that game, opened them up countless times and had we gone in 3-0 at HT and saw out the game like we did yesterday I don't think anyone would have been complaining.

 

[Japhet]

Keane had a right go at Klopp and it was fucking beautiful to see. They have spent so much time licking their own arses they have started to believe the hype. Once you have a team doing this it is all down hill from there.

Looks to me like they're having a few confidence issues. They've played pretty gung-ho football for quite a while now and the majority of teams haven't been keen to have a go at them. Suddenly the confidence drops and mistakes creep in and it has the 2 pronged effect of their form dropping off and the opposition no longer being fearful and nervous playing them. Of course, their fans will pin absolutely all of it on losing Van Dijk but they were already regressing before he got injured.

 

[Shadydan]

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. I thought we played some great football in the first half of that game, opened them up countless times and had we gone in 3-0 at HT and saw out the game like we did yesterday I don't think anyone would have been complaining.

1st half was excellent, 2nd half was a bag of shite, it was like the West Ham, Palace and Newcastle matches where couldn't finish for shit then put the handbrake on.

 

[ajspurs]

I hear what you're saying but I disagree. I thought we played some great football in the first half of that game, opened them up countless times and had we gone in 3-0 at HT and saw out the game like we did yesterday I don't think anyone would have been complaining.

Yeah that's fair enough, I know you're not the only one. To be honest mate, that's easy to say as I wouldn't be 'complaining' about any 1st half if we were 3-0 up. But also as ironic and demanding as it sounds, that doesn't mean that there can't be things wrong either. I actually thought from about 30 minutes in the West Ham game, we were really poor too, even with a 3-0 lead after 16 minutes.

 

[dudu]

1st half was excellent, 2nd half was a bag of shite, it was like the West Ham, Palace and Newcastle matches where couldn't finish for shit then put the handbrake on.

Agree.

 

[anders magnusson]

First of all, I appreciate the effort in listing our perfomances. However, result is always biasing the analysis. Games vs Leeds and Fulham were, in my opinion, very similar with the main difference being us conceding vs Fulham whilst not scoring on several great chances. Expected goals from Understat 2.53-1.16 vs Leeds, 3.14-1.05 vs Fulham supports that view.

Our main problem this year has been to create once we have conceded. The approach to protect the lead we very often found ourselves in (particularly first half of the season) was surely very defensive (and boring to some), but we were also a bit unlucky to concede late on in so many games. We took the lead in soo many games, we really should have benefitted even more from those situations.

Trailing matches we have been awful. We have scored twice against Liverpool (with Hojbergs screamer clearly lucky), against Southhampton and Utd. In all other games (and against Liverpool 2nd game after PEHs goal) we have been properly outplayed, looking clueless on how to create let alone to score at all.

Performances against Liverpool (after Harry got injured), Brighton and Chelsea (first half especially) were all awful. This highlights how reliant we have been on plan A and have revealed the root cause of a lot of problems we have seen with our "reserves" playing - without Harry we are mid table at best.

This was not at all so obvious a few years back when our strategy was different. Son could fill in and other players created. Nowadays everything revolves around Harry. Sadly, the only one really taking advantage of Harrys passing ability is Son.

 

[dudu]

Yeah that's fair enough, I know you're not the only one. To be honest mate, that's easy to say as I wouldn't be 'complaining' about any 1st half if we were 3-0 up. But also as ironic and demanding as it sounds, that doesn't mean that there can't be things wrong either. I actually thought from about 30 minutes in the West Ham game, we were really poor too, even with a 3-0 lead after 16 minutes.

Yeah, I know what you mean and know that even in the best of results we could massive improve for big portions of a game.

 

[yido_number1]

What is missing here, glaringly, is context.

For example - the 0-0 Chelsea. Pretty sure they were in form at ta the time and we had them sandwiched in between two other very difficult matches. a 0-0 was a great result and i know you thought so at the time, performance aside.

The 1-1 vs Fulham - we came out the blocks in that game absolutely all guns blazing and should have put the game to bed with any number of clear cut, missed chances before we let them back in.

I think we just have different expectations as fans. I do not expect to win with a flourish when we are playing every 3 days, constantly missing our creative midfield influences through injury.

We barely have time to work on anything on the training ground other than preparing for the next game, we are in 4 comps, played more football than anyone this season, have a less settled squad and new manager than all our rivals bar + Chelsea who we are on par with pretty much and Arsenal who are below us.

Not getting at your over all point but Fulham had the better chances in that game and absolutely nailed us in the 2nd half and should easily have won that game. Similar to your chelsea comment but in reverse they were whipping boys at that point. That was a really bad performance in a game we should be winning.

 

[McFlash]

There's just so many considerations to take into account this season, that it's really hard to gain a decent idea of where we are.
By that I mean, Man City aside, pretty much every team has had some great results alongside some terrible ones.
I think the lack of fans, frequency of games and the whole covid thing has had a massive effect on everyone from coaching staff, to players.
Both mentally and physically.

 

[spursfan77]

Big Dav says they’ve been working on attacking. Let’s see if there is a change of approach going forward in the majority of games.


The defeats against Liverpool, Brighton and Chelsea showed a Spurs team lacking in creativity and belief.

"Of course, we’ve been thinking about it, we’ve been working hard to change that and change our situation," said Sanchez.

"We know that it’s been difficult. We’ve been trying, we need more performances and to play like this more, you know.

"To enjoy our football, play quick, pass the ball around, to create the chances, use the opportunities to do it and then we need to carry on playing like this as a team."

 

[Shadydan]

Not getting at your over all point but Fulham had the better chances in that game and absolutely nailed us in the 2nd half and should easily have won that game. Similar to your chelsea comment but in reverse they were whipping boys at that point. That was a really bad performance in a game we should be winning.

They didn't, maybe you're remembering the 2nd half but their keeper kept them in it at HT

Xg was 3.14 - 1.05

 

[cliff jones]

First of all, I appreciate the effort in listing our perfomances. However, result is always biasing the analysis. Games vs Leeds and Fulham were, in my opinion, very similar with the main difference being us conceding vs Fulham whilst not scoring on several great chances. Expected goals from Understat 2.53-1.16 vs Leeds, 3.14-1.05 vs Fulham supports that view.

Our main problem this year has been to create once we have conceded. The approach to protect the lead we very often found ourselves in (particularly first half of the season) was surely very defensive (and boring to some), but we were also a bit unlucky to concede late on in so many games. We took the lead in soo many games, we really should have benefitted even more from those situations.

Trailing matches we have been awful. We have scored twice against Liverpool (with Hojbergs screamer clearly lucky), against Southhampton and Utd. In all other games (and against Liverpool 2nd game after PEHs goal) we have been properly outplayed, looking clueless on how to create let alone to score at all.

Performances against Liverpool (after Harry got injured), Brighton and Chelsea (first half especially) were all awful. This highlights how reliant we have been on plan A and have revealed the root cause of a lot of problems we have seen with our "reserves" playing - without Harry we are mid table at best.

This was not at all so obvious a few years back when our strategy was different. Son could fill in and other players created. Nowadays everything revolves around Harry. Sadly, the only one really taking advantage of Harrys passing ability is Son.

we weren’t unlucky to concede at Palace and Wolves or to lose at Liverpool when our slide from the summit began. All three results reflected the balance of play, no matter what the expected goals droid says.

Fulham was different in that we really should have scored a second.

we’ve only actually been unlucky against Newcastle - and unprofessional against West Ham.

 

[dudu]

Not getting at your over all point but Fulham had the better chances in that game and absolutely nailed us in the 2nd half and should easily have won that game. Similar to your chelsea comment but in reverse they were whipping boys at that point. That was a really bad performance in a game we should be winning.

We had the better first half vs Fulham. Son missed two relative sitters from 8 yards. Yup, we sat back and retreated into our shells in the second half but the plan was never to come out and defend from the first whistle. We attacked them, created chances and could/should have put the game to rest in the first half.

Chelsea game im talking about the 0-0. They were 3rd, two points behind us and same GD -

Edit - ignore the Chelsea comment misunderstood what you said.

 

[Beni]

Its actually quite an interesting idea mate as to be fair you could be completely right that because SOME of the matches have been so utterly turgid and horrible that might be masking some of our views on actually what % have been, I'm interested to know actually:

Ok so here goes in the PL going on performances only:

Spurs 0-1 Everton - not acceptable performance
Saints 2-5 Spurs - very good 2nd half
Spurs 1-1- Newcastle - very good and unlucky to lose
Man.U 1-6 Spurs - obviously very good
Spurs 3-3 West Ham - very good, shame we collapsed
Burnley 0-1 Spurs - got quite lucky, pretty average performance
Spurs 2-1- Brighton - par
WBA 0-1 Spurs - not great performance considering how poor they are, city and arsenal beat them 5-0 and 4-0 there and we got a last minute goal and they had chances
*Spurs 2-0 Man.City - not that enjoyable football but tactics worked
Chelsea 0-0 Spurs - absolutely no attacking ambition whatsoever, a draw ok result but performance wasn't great to watch at all
*Spurs 2-0 Arsenal - see City above
C.Palace 1-1 Spurs - not great performance
Liverpool 2-1 Spurs - yes we missed a few chances but overall Jose was wrong to say better team lost, we got battered
Spurs 0-2 Leicester - awful
Wolves 1-1 Spurs - sat back on a 1-0 lead all game, not good
Spurs 3-0 Leeds - very good
Spurs 1-1 Fulham - not great performance
Sheff.Utd 1-3 Spurs - v good away performance
Spurs 1-3 Liverpool - awful
Brighton 1-0 Spurs - awful
Spurs 0-1 Chelsea - awful
Spurs 2-0 West Brom - Much better energy and attacking intent and enjoyable performance *but it was west brom*

So from the 23 matches we’ve so far played, in terms of performance and enjoyment I would say the following:

9x green (39%) – where the performance was very good, lots of nice football and attacking intent, OR in the 2x *’s cases the wins were important wins even if the football itself was a bit too defensive in a home match for my liking and I’m not sure its sustainable to get those results playing like that but for arguments sake because the results were very good I’ve put the wins vs City and Arsenal as green.

5x orange (21%) – where the performance was very overly defensive but we either scraped a win or draw

8x red (35%) – where the performance has either been completely turgid and devoid of any attacking moves or much possession or generally a pretty poor performance considering the standard of opposition

So overall approx. 40% of the premier league matches have been very enjoyable with 2 of those a little debateable in terms of the style but good results, 5 have been okish and 8 have been a real tough watch and/or ultimately a poor result. If you can stomach the performances in the orange matches vs (Wolves, Liverpool, Chelsea, Brighton, Burnley) then you’re actually pretty spot on with saying 60% of performances have been very good or quite good, however I suppose it very much depends on what level of attacking and entertaining performance people have a tolerance for.

Personally I didn’t particularly enjoy watching much of any of those 5 ‘orange’ matches but to my main point with Jose, if the results are very good or exceptional then I can stomach it (same for wins vs Man.City & Arsenal at home, of course I very much enjoyed both of those), however those red matches have been almost unwatchable at times, especially the recent 3 vs Brighton, Liverpool and Chelsea and so when we were sitting in 9th and for me up to that point I’d only really properly enjoyed watching us play football in about 40%-50% of our matches that isn’t an acceptable trade-off for me… however when we were top of the league, at that point we’d actually played some very decent stuff in a good probably 60-70% of the matches and then just got over the line in a few more then obviously that is a very acceptable trade-off to be 1st and enjoying a good % of matches.

I feel its all a balance between performances and results and each fan will have different tolerances to this however in my opinion because some of the matches (red ones) are so so almost unwatchable then when the results do start to be not so good and we are sitting in 9th like we were then I can absolutely see why some or it seems quite a lot of the fans do turn on Jose quite quickly.

Lets hope what we saw yesterday overcomes this recent poor form and performances and if we can play with more energy and attacking intent like that again in most matches, especially at home when we really should be attacking teams a bit more then happy days, but more recently the balance has been way off.

What are your thoughts on this mate, did you see the performances so far similarly or you’re a little more easily entertained haha?

COYS.

Plus being in the mix for 3 cups, and top 4 is certainly still achievable.

 

[spurs mental]

Not getting at your over all point but Fulham had the better chances in that game and absolutely nailed us in the 2nd half and should easily have won that game. Similar to your chelsea comment but in reverse they were whipping boys at that point. That was a really bad performance in a game we should be winning.

Fulham weren't whipping boys when they came to the Lane. They had lost 1 in 6, vs City, and beaten Leicester.

 

[ajspurs]

Yeah, I know what you mean and know that even in the best of results we could massive improve for big portions of a game.

Yeah hopefully it's something that we can improve and have us getting away with still getting positive results while maybe still missing a few chances. Much like yesterday really, I think the positive way in which we played throughout almost the whole game gave us the capacity to make up for missing good chances

 

[Beni]

Fulham weren't whipping boys when they came to the Lane. They had lost 1 in 6, vs City, and beaten Leicester.

And had a 14-15 day rest due to them having to isolate

 

[dudu]

Yeah hopefully it's something that we can improve and have us getting away with still getting positive results while maybe still missing a few chances. Much like yesterday really, I think the positive way in which we played throughout almost the whole game gave us the capacity to make up for missing good chances

Definitely!

Solid performance + win vs Everton and we will all feel a lot better about things.