Jose Mourinho

[Everlasting Seconds]

At inter and earlier he had this tactical deviousness that made you fee he had the edge - almost like a super power. It’s clear that this has gone now as he hasn’t evolved.

This is key. During his career, Mourinho has been part of changing Premier League football the way we know it tactically. He brought change to English footie. But somehow it seems to me that he isn’t capable of evolving beyond what he initially did introduce. It’s puzzling to me that he doesn’t see that it isn’t his 2004 tactics that specifically is evergreen, but what should be, is his youthful ability for the ingenious. He shouldn’t keep repeating the Chelsea blueprint. He should repeat the real reasons for why it worked. It was fresh.

 

[1966]

How is it nonsense when it's there on the documentary? Or when our resident ITK has basically confirmed it? Or that Kane has confirmed in an interview that he's not telling them to sit back?

I'm open to being corrected and it's been ages since I watched All Or Nothing, but how did it demonstrate this point? I thought the biggest tell in that series in terms of the tactics and their effect on the team was the Dele rant about booting it long and defending, which seemed to me to imply the opposite about Jose.

I also wouldn't use Kane speaking about his current manager as a solid source. The reality is that (maybe ITK aside, of course) we just don't have access to that world by design, and most of our suppositions about the state of the dressing room are necessarily intuitive guesses. It's fine to make those speculations - what else would we talk about on a football forum? - but I don't think objective truth is within our grasp here. (Same goes for both sides of the issue.)

 

[Rosco1984]

Its a catch 22, how can we have a full settled team that plays together every week when we have a game every 2-3 days and have done since October? Do we not have injuries to content with too?

Would you have played tanganga + rodon together for 90 mins 4 times in 10 days?

I said as often as possible.... One position where you don't need to constantly rest players is at CB they cover far less ground than most other positions we are in desperate need of a settled defence he either needs to decide who his best current two are and stick with them or stick with two who have the ability to Improve. If your always feeling like one mistake and i'm out then your going to be treading on egg shells and playing with fear.

 

[1966]

Other than kane no one has shown any improvements and tbh anyone couldve made Kane drop deeper and opened up that part of his game, he has always had excellent passing for a forward. This isnt a new revelation to anyone.

Agree on all of this part. Southgate did it years ago.

 

[Donki]

Where in my post did I say that was the highlight of our season? I said it was an example of an entertaining game for those of us who enjoy both sides of the game and for the neutrals.

And thanks for proving my point I made earlier. Even in a 6-1 win you'll find something to complain about.

Man, if our asperations are beating a 10 man United 6-1, we really have lost the plot. I have no idea what point you think I have proved, we are massively under performing with a 25-30 goal a season striker on our books. Complain about? We are 10th with 1 win in 5, only West Brom and Southampton are in worse form than us.

You said..."we have actually had some really entertaining games to watch. United 6-1 comes to mind." I took that as you thought that game was a highlight as you highlighted it...

 

[parj]

Because so many of the players in this squad deserve to be treated kindly and given room for mistakes

He is running out of players now and going back through the ones he banished first. At some point he has to actually coach and manage, not just banish.

 

[spurs mental]

Other than kane no one has shown any improvements and tbh anyone couldve made Kane drop deeper and opened up that part of his game, he has always had excellent passing for a forward. This isnt a new revelation to anyone

And yet Poch never utilised it the way Jose has, nor have England managers utilised it until recently. Interesting.

 

[spurs mental]

Man, if our asperations are beating a 10 man United 6-1, we really have lost the plot. I have no idea what point you think I have proved, we are massively under performing with a 25-30 goal a season striker on our books. Complain about? We are 10th with 1 win in 5, only West Brom and Southampton are in worse form than us.

You said..."we have actually had some really entertaining games to watch. United 6-1 comes to mind." I took that as you thought that game was a highlight as you highlighted it...

You didn't read his response at all did you?

 

[parj]

Other than kane no one has shown any improvements and tbh anyone couldve made Kane drop deeper and opened up that part of his game, he has always had excellent passing for a forward. This isnt a new revelation to anyone. But by doing that you also compact us closer to our own defensive final third and take away other parts of his game.

Poch already did it with against United with Lucas running for Kane.

 

[1966]

I agree, but I also think he’s been covering too much ground. I mean at times he was our best CB, best DM, best CM, best AM and best coach and motivator. It’s just too many jobs for one person.

Yeah, this is why it's hard to complain when he ends up getting an injury (and then maybe only playing at 80% for a little while). I actually wasn't that concerned for him long-term this time, like I have been in the past. I saw a lot of "if those tackles injured him, he's fucked" but some kind of knock or scrape was totally inevitable. He'd played a monstrous amount of football up to the point when he got injured and really high pressure stuff as well: covering roles all over the pitch with at times a complete dependence on him for offensive progress.

There's only so much you can ask one player to do and (a) still have them do it adequately and (b) not get worn out and injured in the process. It's somewhat ironic that José this season has been more dependent on Kane (despite having what's supposed to be a tenable rotation option) than Poch ever was.

Not that this has anything to do with anything. But your post made me think.

 

[Styopa]

Agree on all of this part. Southgate did it years ago.

In fact even when he broke through he displayed real quality from deep. I remember Hoddle and others drawing Teddy Sherringham comparisons. There was debate about whether he was better playing from deep or further forward but ultimately he was so clinical higher up the pitch.

That doesn't take away how well Mourinho has utilised Kane this season. But I think one of the reasons Kane has been asked to play in this way is that we lack a consistent creator in the centre of the park (much like England), especially since Eriksen left.

 

[Donki]

And yet Poch never utilised it the way Jose has, nor have England managers utilised it until recently. Interesting.

I think there is a lot of spin here, Harry is being utilised deeper for club and country not because that's his ideal position its because neither side create enough. I mean if we had prime Eriksen or a Bruno, do you think he would be there, of course he wouldn't.

 

[Donki]

You didn't read his response at all did you?

Of course I did, what did I miss. This place is utterly toxic atm, it seems if you have an opinion that differs from someone else's you have some sort of agenda. I am not happy with the performances, the efforts of the players, our style of play or our results.

 

[Japhet]

That doesn't take away how well Mourinho has utilised Kane this season. But I think one of the reasons Kane has been asked to play in this way is that we lack a consistent creator in the centre of the park (much like England), especially since Eriksen left.

There's also usually a huge distance from our back line to the forwards so it's inevitable that forwards (Kane in particular) drop deep to get on the ball. Even when Ndombele gets pushed into the 10 role the game pretty much passes him by. The way we play makes the pitch very big for us and pretty small for our opponents.

 

[dudu]

I said as often as possible.... One position where you don't need to constantly rest players is at CB they cover far less ground than most other positions we are in desperate need of a settled defence he either needs to decide who his best current two are and stick with them or stick with two who have the ability to Improve. If your always feeling like one mistake and i'm out then your going to be treading on egg shells and playing with fear.

I personally think the one mistake and your out thing is a bogeyman. If that were the case we would have 2 players starting each game.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Man, if our asperations are beating a 10 man United 6-1, we really have lost the plot. I have no idea what point you think I have proved, we are massively under performing with a 25-30 goal a season striker on our books. Complain about? We are 10th with 1 win in 5, only West Brom and Southampton are in worse form than us.

You said..."we have actually had some really entertaining games to watch. United 6-1 comes to mind." I took that as you thought that game was a highlight as you highlighted it...

This is why you shouldn't reply to a post without taking the entire post into context. You are cherry picking things I wrote but not the post as a whole.

You say we are in tenth like that is where we are going to finish. We are literally 3 points off top 4 if we win our game in hand.

Also, I highlighted that game as an example of an ENTERTAINING GAME and you said that I said it was the best performance of the season. I didn't. Now you are basing your entire argument on one sentence I wrote.

I enjoy a good debate and throwing ideas around but I can't entertain childish cherry picking it does nothing to add to the conversation.

 

[Styopa]

Yeah, this is why it's hard to complain when he ends up getting an injury (and then maybe only playing at 80% for a little while). I actually wasn't that concerned for him long-term this time, like I have been in the past. I saw a lot of "if those tackles injured him, he's fucked" but some kind of knock or scrape was totally inevitable. He'd played a monstrous amount of football up to the point when he got injured and really high pressure stuff as well: covering roles all over the pitch with at times a complete dependence on him for offensive progress.

There's only so much you can ask one player to do and (a) still have them do it adequately and (b) not get worn out and injured in the process. It's somewhat ironic that José this season has been more dependent on Kane (despite having what's supposed to be a tenable rotation option) than Poch ever was.

Not that this has anything to do with anything. But your post made me think.

I absolutely agree.

However, regarding the bold part, I would say at least Pochettino had Eriksen.

Kane is essentially been asked to fill two positions in the team now, striker and creative midfielder.

Vinicius may be able to fill in as striker but I don't think he can drop into midfield and create like Kane. Few strikers can.

In a way it reminds me of the Rooney situation when he was covering huge spans of the pitch for England and United. Although I think Kane probably takes much better care of himself than Rooney and played less football than Rooney when he was younger.

 

[Donki]

This is why you shouldn't reply to a post without taking the entire post into context. You are cherry picking things I wrote but not the post as a whole.

You say we are in tenth like that is where we are going to finish. We are literally 3 points off top 4 if we win our game in hand.

Also, I highlighted that game as an example of an ENTERTAINING GAME and you said that I said it was the best performance of the season. I didn't. Now you are basing your entire argument on one sentence I wrote.

I enjoy a good debate and throwing ideas around but I can't entertain childish cherry picking it does nothing to add to the conversation.

I really don't see how I am being childish, but that's how divisive this is at the minute, a good debate as you say doesn't involve cheap digs. You say if we win our game in hand, like its likely we will, right now it doesn't, you are ignoring our current form... like you said cherry picking what you wanna take into consideration. With West Ham next, if we loose it will be incredibly worrying.

We have,
West ham
Burnley
Palace
Arsenal
Newcastle
United
Everton

Not exactly guaranteed 3 pointers.

 

[spurs mental]

Of course I did, what did I miss. This place is utterly toxic atm, it seems if you have an opinion that differs from someone else's you have some sort of agenda. I am not happy with the performances, the efforts of the players, our style of play or our results.

You basically cherry picked what to reply to from his original post to try and solidify your own point. And then did it again in the second reply.

 

[dudu]

There's also usually a huge distance from our back line to the forwards so it's inevitable that forwards (Kane in particular) drop deep to get on the ball. Even when Ndombele gets pushed into the 10 role the game pretty much passes him by. The way we play makes the pitch very big for us and pretty small for our opponents.

Personally, I think that Kane was dropping back deeper and swapping positions with Ndombele because he was not able to produce what Kane was the middle of the pitch.

Didn't he get subbed at HT vs Southhampton?

Im not saying he hasn't improved, but 1 assist in 19 games? Not great for your creative CM at all.