Jose Mourinho

[DCSPUR]

Same at every big club. Don't kid yourself that it's not. Transfer windows and the Bosman ruling have seen to that.

not sure if that's the way it works at Citeh. They were/ are so committed to Pep that they built the whole structure around him and will replace any player he wants out. Funnily enough he had close to that level of support at Barca (of course he couldn't cross messi).
Have a feeling that the Fenway group would really back Klopp in a massive way as well. Stateside reporting suggests their mo is not player centric.

 

[jimbo]

I do wonder who are these senior players who seemingly downed tools for Poch and now (according to one version of events) are derailing or potentially derailing Mourinho's tenure? Rose and Dele are the obvious two I suppose. I don't know how much sway they carry in the dressing room these days. Who are the others? Kane? Lloris? Toby? Son?

Quite honestly if the so called disruptive ones are the players who are routinely singled out for criticism on this forum: your likes of Sanchez, Aurier, Sissoko, Winks, Lucas etc. then who's going to be worried if they're agitating for moves anyway? They're mostly the players everyone's banging on about needing to sell.

I doubt its any of our performers or they would be slumping too. It could really be anyone on the team but we do know there are some obvious suspects like you said in Rose or Dele. We need to get rid asap regardless of who it is though as we cannot set the same precedent that Chelsea has with their players.

I'd be surprised if Dele was a Poch-outer, seemed to me like he loved Poch and I feel like his struggles under Jose might have something to do with him struggling to handle his sacking. Not based on anything, just remember talk of how Poch 'was like a father to him' and the way he celebrated the goal against Everton when Poch was under pressure etc. On AON I think Jose explicitly says to him something like 'I'm not going to try to be a second father' or something like that, which made me wonder if it was a deliberate reference to his relationship with Poch.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I call for a recount of the votes. I believe this was fixed and a conspiracy against myself as the true Jose cult leader.

I’ll have to consult the counsel on this and get back to you, however I highly doubt it will pass as we have moved Over from a democratic formation to a dictatorship formation.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

I'd be surprised if Dele was a Poch-outer, seemed to me like he loved Poch and I feel like his struggles under Jose might have something to do with him struggling to handle his sacking. Not based on anything, just remember talk of how Poch 'was like a father to him' and the way he celebrated the goal against Everton when Poch was under pressure etc. On AON I think Jose explicitly says to him something like 'I'm not going to try to be a second father' or something like that, which made me wonder if it was a deliberate reference to his relationship with Poch.

I also doubt he was an issue under Poch but since he’s been dropped from the team I don’t think he holds the same sentiment for Mourinho.

 

[Joely]

Other than kane no one has shown any improvements and tbh anyone couldve made Kane drop deeper and opened up that part of his game, he has always had excellent passing for a forward.

Thought about this recently. Agree on Kane...don't think it's necessarily too difficult to fine tune/add a string to a players bow when they have the type of ability Kane has. Overall, not convinced Mourinho, especially at this stage of his career, is the type of manager to take your average player up a notch or two.

 

[mil1lion]

The funny thing about when Poch said he might quit if we win the CL final is he didn't say the same for if we lost. Yet when we did lose the final it seemed as though he had left (mentally). I feel like regardless of what the result was in the CL final it felt like the end of a journey rather than the start of a new one. It always felt like it was the culmination of what we had built for 5 years. Even the emotion from Poch in the SF win at Ajax was like a happy ending (ooh err).

There's obviously a big mentality issue to overcome and I'm not sure how long that will take. That's why it shouldn't be taken lightly when considering the future of Jose if he's able to change that mentality. I'm not sure the Carabao Cup alone will bring that but it could spark the beginning of a mentality shift. I think a EL win would be massive too and not impossible. I think a couple of trophies in a short time is the only way that balance can shift.

 

[mil1lion]

On the subject of improving players I think Jose is someone that pushes people mentally to improve. I'm not sure he necessarily coaches their game but rather challenges them to improve their game further. That's why players who have that strong character and drive to improve are the ones who succeed the most under him (Kane, Son, Hojbjerg and signs of Ndombele doing so). If you don't handle the blunt criticism well then you tend to drop off a cliff. The comments from Aurier for example where he gets called out in front of the players is a prime example where some players will fold and others wont (he seems to have handled it well to be fair). I'm not sure players like Sanchez or Alli have it in them to take open criticism so well so if we're to stick with Jose we have to add more mentally strong characters in their place.

 

[spurs mental]

On the subject of improving players I think Jose is someone that pushes people mentally to improve. I'm not sure he necessarily coaches their game but rather challenges them to improve their game further. That's why players who have that strong character and drive to improve are the ones who succeed the most under him (Kane, Son, Hojbjerg and signs of Ndombele doing so). If you don't handle the blunt criticism well then you tend to drop off a cliff. The comments from Aurier for example where he gets called out in front of the players is a prime example where some players will fold and others wont (he seems to have handled it well to be fair). I'm not sure players like Sanchez or Alli have it in them to take open criticism so well so if we're to stick with Jose we have to add more mentally strong characters in their place.

I think its part of the reason we added Hart to the squad. He seems like he has his shit together and has a strong winners mentality.

 

[Shadydan]

Thought about this recently. Agree on Kane...don't think it's necessarily too difficult to fine tune/add a string to a players bow when they have the type of ability Kane has. Overall, not convinced Mourinho, especially at this stage of his career, is the type of manager to take your average player up a notch or two.

Why hasn't Kane been this good for 3 years?

 

[spursfan77]

Interesting words from Aurier about Mourinho
?

“
What's good with him and what makes him a good coach it's that he has a group and he tries to create a nice atmosphere in it," he said.

"Me, like you, I heard what people said from the outside but it's not the same person that I see here.

"I also think with the sabbatical year he took,he questions his methods. We are all humans, so questioning yourself is not bad.

"Maybe he managed to erase his flaws. Today, regarding what I heard about him before, he is not the same coach any more.

"He is a bit more with the players and he hangs out a bit more with the players and I like that."

 

[Shadydan]

On the subject of improving players I think Jose is someone that pushes people mentally to improve. I'm not sure he necessarily coaches their game but rather challenges them to improve their game further. That's why players who have that strong character and drive to improve are the ones who succeed the most under him (Kane, Son, Hojbjerg and signs of Ndombele doing so). If you don't handle the blunt criticism well then you tend to drop off a cliff. The comments from Aurier for example where he gets called out in front of the players is a prime example where some players will fold and others wont (he seems to have handled it well to be fair). I'm not sure players like Sanchez or Alli have it in them to take open criticism so well so if we're to stick with Jose we have to add more mentally strong characters in their place.

Great point which is why I'm disappointed with Dele, could you imagine a Dele who is switched on and at it every game, he already has the ability but he has never been consistent.

 

[mil1lion]

Great point which is why I'm disappointed with Dele, could you imagine a Dele who is switched on and at it every game, he already has the ability but he has never been consistent.

The thing with Dele is he still seems very young minded. He's still young in age but there's plenty of players his age who are a lot more grown. There's still hope he'll grow but it's also possible he'll always be that way (like Bentley was for example). Maybe we missed a trick not loaning him to PSG for a bit as a change of country and culture may have helped him grow.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

The thing with Dele is he still seems very young minded. He's still young in age but there's plenty of players his age who are a lot more grown. There's still hope he'll grow but it's also possible he'll always be that way (like Bentley was for example). Maybe we missed a trick not loaning him to PSG for a bit as a change of country and culture may have helped him grow.

This is me entirely rambling here, but I wonder how much playing football computer games (what's hot these days, is it only FIFA?) can have an impact on a players self esteem. For two hypothetical scenarios, let's say everlasting seconds constantly sees that his pace is rated almost on the level of Mbappe, and his dribbling is relatively close to Messi. Will that make me cocky, being seeing myself in AI version being almost as good as Messi and Mbappe in AI version? Or say conversely, I scroll to Tottenham's squad list and se that me and my entire team minus Kane is constantly rated like a good 20 out of 100 points below Liverpool for instance? Will that subconsciously affect my self esteem?
Maybe these kids should try one full season to abstain from computer games and see what happens.

 

[razzmaster]

This is me entirely rambling here, but I wonder how much playing football computer games (what's hot these days, is it only FIFA?) can have an impact on a players self esteem. For two hypothetical scenarios, let's say everlasting seconds constantly sees that his pace is rated almost on the level of Mbappe, and his dribbling is relatively close to Messi. Will that make me cocky, being seeing myself in AI version being almost as good as Messi and Mbappe in AI version? Or say conversely, I scroll to Tottenham's squad list and se that me and my entire team minus Kane is constantly rated like a good 20 out of 100 points below Liverpool for instance? Will that subconsciously affect my self esteem?
Maybe these kids should try one full season to abstain from computer games and see what happens.

I think you may be overthinking this one

 

[Shadydan]

Yeah very RAWKish post

 

[1966]

I absolutely agree.

However, regarding the bold part, I would say at least Pochettino had Eriksen.

Kane is essentially been asked to fill two positions in the team now, striker and creative midfielder.

Vinicius may be able to fill in as striker but I don't think he can drop into midfield and create like Kane. Few strikers can.

In a way it reminds me of the Rooney situation when he was covering huge spans of the pitch for England and United. Although I think Kane probably takes much better care of himself than Rooney and played less football than Rooney when he was younger.

Oh, 100%, mate. Not only Eriksen but Poch had goals from all of DESK whereas Jose now has SK and almost nobody else scoring. The dual role thing I could not agree more with. Kane is being asked to do the work of two players simultaneously. It speaks to his brilliance that he's able to do both well enough to keep Spurs afloat (to be honest, I think there are 2-3 players you could take away from this squad to make it mid-table).

Agree on Vinicius too. I think it's naive to expect him to be a drop-in replacement for Kane because I don't think a drop-in replacement exists anywhere (one of the three most clinical finishers in Europe while also being a world class passer with world class vision etc.). I was being somewhat facetious with the Poch/Jose/Vinicus bit: I understand why Jose feels he can't rely on anyone other than Kane for what he needs.

When you have a player of Kane's quality and versatility, it must be so difficult to refrain from using them as a crutch and becoming completely reliant on their presence and performance.

 

[SpursSince1980]

Oh, 100%, mate. Not only Eriksen but Poch had goals from all of DESK whereas Jose now has SK and almost nobody else scoring. The dual role thing I could not agree more with. Kane is being asked to do the work of two players simultaneously. It speaks to his brilliance that he's able to do both well enough to keep Spurs afloat (to be honest, I think there are 2-3 players you could take away from this squad to make it mid-table).

Agree on Vinicius too. I think it's naive to expect him to be a drop-in replacement for Kane because I don't think a drop-in replacement exists anywhere (one of the three most clinical finishers in Europe while also being a world class passer with world class vision etc.). I was being somewhat facetious with the Poch/Jose/Vinicus bit: I understand why Jose feels he can't rely on anyone other than Kane for what he needs.

When you have a player of Kane's quality and versatility, it must be so difficult to refrain from using them as a crutch and becoming completely reliant on their presence and performance.

I think the expectation this season is that DESK would evolve into DCBSK. With Lo Celso, Dele, Bale, Sonny and Kane being our primary source of goals. Lo Celso has been out injured for most of the season. Bale has been unable to get out of 1st gear, and Dele has been mentally checked out and has cratered in terms of confidence and form. That has put a lot of pressure on Son and Kane. Stevie B, Lamela, Lucas, and Vinny should theoretically be able to contribute a bit more, but haven't.

Inevitably the fatigue and pressure will take its toll on Kane and Son. Which we have seen. Sonny, in particular looks completely gassed. Granted, he has always been a very streaky player. Goes through amazing purple patches, and then can be a non-entity for six or seven games.

I hope Jose can find a way to get Bale revving again and maybe imbue Dele with some confidence. As for Lo Celso... that's just a huge bummer. As we know how talented he is. But given that he has only played 19 premier league games in two seasons, says it all. He is simply made of glass. All we can hope is that these two seasons have been an anomaly, and that he'll be able to reintegrate with the team in March.

 

[LeParisien]

I posted start of September he wouldn't make it to Christmas because of what was going on back of house. Was in the cards for a long time.

You also said Mourinho would be done by 14 Feb. Fucking ruined my Valentine’s Day when I clicked onto Wikipedia that evening

 

[LeParisien]

The thing with Dele is he still seems very young minded. He's still young in age but there's plenty of players his age who are a lot more grown. There's still hope he'll grow but it's also possible he'll always be that way (like Bentley was for example). Maybe we missed a trick not loaning him to PSG for a bit as a change of country and culture may have helped him grow.

Might be able to get a good meal too

 

[SpursSince1980]

You also said Mourinho would be done by 14 Feb. Fucking ruined my Valentine’s Day when I clicked onto Wikipedia that evening