Jose Mourinho

[rossdapep]

Josè has not helped himself today. I don’t think it looks good. Br very surprised he is here end of season, regardless of whatever we do.

Self sabotage in order to protect his reputation. Very odd

 

[Hercules]

Self sabotage in order to protect his reputation. Very odd

Looks like it

 

[dontcallme]

Sorry to talk about them but look at Chelsea. Terry, Drogba, Lampard were the kinds of great attitude. But when it was going badly with AVB, they threw him under the bus to the media I believe.

They did but you have to wonder why.

These guys won multiple titles and were ever present with an equal amount of determination as ability.

If they were so unhappy with AVB that they wanted rid does this mean they automatically have bad characters? I would say no. The job AVB did with us suggests the players were right to want rid.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

So he said he'd make it happen and has had two stabs at it. Has changed the squad massively. Has got in at least 3 players he really wanted. Has two world class attackers at his disposal and still hasn't come close.

Hes failing on every level and seen as he's thrown new players under the bus (Bale, Doherty, Rodon, Vini have all had it directly or indirectly), I really don't trust him to bring in more players and not do the same.

Spot on mate and that final bit is key for me. If we didn’t need more of a re-build I’d actually be very slightly more inclined to give him more time to work with the squad if we saw signs of progression but we just look like such a mess, he’s pissing players off left right and centre and throwing them under the bus so as you say if we let him bring more in it’ll just be more of the same, it actually is getting toxic now and it just has to stop.

 

[snakehipsspurs]

Josè has not helped himself today. I don’t think it looks good. Be very surprised he is here end of season, regardless of whatever we do.

 

[Snarfalicious]

Who could have seen this coming?!

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

They did but you have to wonder why.

These guys won multiple titles and were ever present with an equal amount of determination as ability.

If they were so unhappy with AVB that they wanted rid does this mean they automatically have bad characters? I would say no. The job AVB did with us suggests the players were right to want rid.

Yea exactly if the players are used to winning titles and the new guy in charge is an absolute joke of course they’ll want to oust him as they supposedly did with AVB

 

[1966]

The thing is I just don't buy that the attitude of our players is that bad.

The likes of Kane, Son, Hojbjerg, Lloris and others show a great attitude. I don't believe our players attitudes is particularly worse than at any other club.

Yeah. It's really hard to imagine guys like Kane, Son or Lloris not trying their best at every opportunity. It's also hard to imagine them allowing other first XIers to get away with significant slacking.

By the by, I think that fans looking in from the outside aren't always the best judges of who really cares. It's a bit like the old "fackin' run around a bit" meme. It's not like there's no legitimacy at all to that idea but a player's number of sprints in the 90th minute is not a reliable measure of attitude.

 

[rez9000]

I think we're in end times now re Mourinho. I don't see how he can turn it around given that performance. I don't see him as having done anything wrong per se, but he's not being effective because I don't think he can be in this club as it is.

Most indicative, to my mind, of the inevitability of the end is this:

This, to me, sounds like all-out war breaking out at the club. A large section of the fans have been against Mourinho from the start and that was a massive drag anyway, but when the likes of Alisdair Gold (who many see as direct a channel of communication as a journalist can be without being a publicist) starts writing openly critical pieces, especially that quickly after a poor result, it has the feel of the tide turning against Mourinho. That, and the Evening Standard piece, smack to me of the club preparing the ground for sacking the manager. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't remember a Gold-penned piece as starkly critical as this one. Or maybe Gold isn't that much of a mouthpiece and it's a simple article, but I'm doubtful. Conjecture, of course, but it's still more noise in a volatile situation.

As harsh as it may seem, if by some miracle we pull it together and finish in the top 4, I don’t think he’ll get next season given the atmosphere he is creating. As pro Jose as I have been, he’s doing himself no favours.

This is key for me. Ultimately, there's now too much friction at all levels in the club for his position to remain tenable, barring a pretty much binary flip in attitude and atmosphere around the club. Today was supposed to demonstrate that it could happen, but it didn't. The noise has now become too much. As HodisGawd says:

At 2.50pm today I was still pro-Jose, and I'm trying my best to continue that way because I like to stay loyal and take no pleasure in the upheaval of getting rid of a manager. I want a settled and stable club. But when it gets toxic it doesn't matter what side of the fence you're on, the manager has to go. We don't know the truth about what's going on (if anything) yet but it really does appear like we are at that point and there is something rotten in the team barrel. The Toby briefing by a "club source" is easily rubbished but it does sound significant. If true, it's only a matter of time before Jose is gone and the only question is how bad it can get. Nobody here should be enjoying this or wishing it to happen.

There is something to consider: whether he's right or wrong to blame the players publicly, he's right to blame them. I saw pass after pass after pass misplaced this afternoon. I saw no desire to get forward, I saw some unbelievably poor play on the pitch - something Mourinho cannot control.

I agree with Danny1

His position is untenable. We, the fans, are the club and it’s clear he is not wanted.

I don’t like the goading in here of people who were positive after the Villa game as we are all fans and if people wanted to be positive then there is/was no problem with it. We all want to win, I really couldn’t care less who is in charge.

I’ve been a supporter and backer of Jose’s as I really wanted us to succeed but we are going to go down as the only club he has not won a trophy with, yet another stick for other clubs supporters to hit us with and laugh at us.

We, also, have way too many bang average footballers who make the wrong decisions time after time after time. Doherty, Aurier, Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Winks, Sissoko, Lamela, Alli and Lucas are all part of our first team squad and every single one of them fails at the basics of football in almost every game they play. If we were to bring in Nagelsman, and I hope we do, we still have a massive job on our hands to get back to Champions League football with the current squad we have.

Yes, only Lucas of that list played today, but there was an appalling inability for some of our players to even deliver the basics of football this afternoon and that's happened before.

for anyone Mourinho in

would you honestly want to give him the funds and chance for another season, at the risk of it being the exact same shit (or better) we have now if it meant we would miss out on the chance to sign one of the most promising up and coming managers ?

Depends on the context. As things stand now, no, I can't say I would. But not because I don't trust him to be able to bring in the right players, but because the atmosphere is too toxic for him to be able to operate in. Anything that Mourinho does from now on is going to be met with nothing but more toxicity, so it's too volatile a situation. As I say, there's just too much noise.

So, it seems clear to me that he'll be on his way soon. I don't see it as a wise choice to keep him anyway if the club has started briefing against him, which I think they have. I expect to see a lot of negative stories to start coming out in the next few days from 'unofficial' sources. In that situation, no manager can survive.

However, before we start celebrating too hard, I also think we're not going to enjoy the next phase very much at all. As I've been saying for a while, this club has some deep-rooted problems. If people are disenchanted with the football now, I think it'll be nothing compared to what we're going to see. None of this is anything but conjecture, of course, and I hope it doesn't happen, but the task ahead of the club is too big.

Has anyone ever gone on holiday and come back to find there's been a power cut and the fridge has stopped working while they've been away? If you have, you'll be well aware of the stench when you open the fridge door. That stench never goes away. You have to replace the fridge, simple as. We have dead-fridge stench at Spurs. And getting rid of Mourinho is not going to solve it. It may make the stench slightly more palatable, but there's a deeper problem. And not Nagelsmann, not Rodgers, not Potter, not anyone is going to fix it in anything under two seasons.

So strap in ladies and gents, we're in for a very rough ride.

 

[YB123]

Im still backing him at the end of the day imo Poch wore the players down to the ground with the double sessions and high pressing,

None of them look like the same anymore except Kane but he isnt a striker anymore either, he used to get behind defenders and Son who wasn't a starter till the end

Mourinho was brought in to change the mentality, if he can't do it, we will forever be the also rans.

IMO he has inherited the worse defence at spurs since Jol, Not one top player in the defence. Aldweireld has aged poorly

This is his first full season and I wouldn't sack him after one and last season didn't really have time to asses the squad as it was broken up. Poch was fortunate that Sherwood failed and stirred things up

Mourinho has to pull the house down and then rebuild. I would at least give him time to rebuild.

If we don't see this through for better or worse. I fear we will become what arsenal are at the moment and at best be club that reaches top 4 and has no success.

If you wrote this at same stage last season I would completely agree. But he has been backed in summer, got a lot of targets he wanted yet there are still big gaping holes in the squad. Hes had 18 months now. Like i said i was pro-Jose but how long do you give someone and can he be trusted with a rebuild?

I'd love to see him turn it around. Finish season on a high, win the cup but Im not sure I trust him with what is beginning to look like the biggest transfer window in the last 5/10 years for this club.

 

[rossdapep]

Im still backing him at the end of the day imo Poch wore the players down to the ground with the double sessions and high pressing,

None of them look like the same anymore except Kane but he isnt a striker anymore either, he used to get behind defenders and Son who wasn't a starter till the end

Mourinho was brought in to change the mentality, if he can't do it, we will forever be the also rans.

IMO he has inherited the worse defence at spurs since Jol, Not one top player in the defence. Aldweireld has aged poorly

This is his first full season and I wouldn't sack him after one and last season didn't really have time to asses the squad as it was broken up. Poch was fortunate that Sherwood failed and stirred things up

Mourinho has to pull the house down and then rebuild. I would at least give him time to rebuild.

If we don't see this through for better or worse. I fear we will become what arsenal are at the moment and at best be club that reaches top 4 and has no success.

Ok. What about the new players though?

Bale has had issues with him.
Vini has been mysteriously given barely any chance to get up to speed depsite Jose saying he could play with Kane and being his preferred choice.
Bergwijn has seemingly disappeared.
Rodon has had issues (agrdavid suggested)
Doherty felt his wrath

He's pissing off many players which is obviously denting their confidence

 

[Wick3d]

Self sabotage in order to protect his reputation. Very odd

He is thinking about his next job and the inevitable interview question, why did you fail at Tottenham?

 

[dontcallme]

Yeah. It's really hard to imagine guys like Kane, Son or Lloris not trying their best at every opportunity. It's also hard to imagine them allowing other first XIers to get away with significant slacking.

By the by, I think that fans looking in from the outside aren't always the best judges of who really cares. It's a bit like the old "fackin' run around a bit" meme. It's not like there's no legitimacy at all to that idea but a player's number of sprints in the 90th minute is not a reliable measure of attitude.

True. My view is very much an opinion of what I observe from the outside.

When players put in the effort, aren't playing injured all the time and show a desire to win I have to think they have a good attitude.

Maybe they have bad attitudes behind the scenes but I am not convinced our players attitudes are that bad compared to the rest of the league.

 

[LeParisien]

I don't see him as having done anything wrong per se, but he's not being effective

................

 

[1966]

True. My view is very much an opinion of what I observe from the outside.

When players put in the effort, aren't playing injured all the time and show a desire to win I have to think they have a good attitude.

Maybe they have bad attitudes behind the scenes but I am not convinced our players attitudes are that bad compared to the rest of the league.

I agree on all points, mate. The last point wasn't aimed at you in particular. It was just a general musing on how hard it is for us as fans to know what's really going on.

 

[DiamondLites]

Self sabotage in order to protect his reputation. Very odd

His reputation is in tatters, he’s yesterday’s man his style of football doesn’t work and his style of management doesn’t fly with the vast majority of modern players

 

[beats1]

If you wrote this at same stage last season I would completely agree. But he has been backed in summer, got a lot of targets he wanted yet there are still big gaping holes in the squad. Hes had 18 months now. Like i said i was pro-Jose but how long do you give someone and can he be trusted with a rebuild?

I'd love to see him turn it around. Finish season on a high, win the cup but Im not sure I trust him with what is beginning to look like the biggest transfer window in the last 5/10 years for this club.

He was backed in the summer

BUT People keep saying that as if he was given a big check book but whilst he was given players, lets be honest it wasn't enough. We lost Wanyama, Dembele, Walker, Rose, Alderwiereld, Vertonghen, Eriksen and even Alli declined under Poch in his last season and half.

The problem has been our defence. Our defenders cant defend whatsoever.

Right now our best CB is a kid we signed from the championship

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I think we're in end times now re Mourinho. I don't see how he can turn it around given that performance. I don't see him as having done anything wrong per se, but he's not being effective because I don't think he can be in this club as it is.

Most indicative, to my mind, of the inevitability of the end is this:



This, to me, sounds like all-out war breaking out at the club. A large section of the fans have been against Mourinho from the start and that was a massive drag anyway, but when the likes of Alistair Gold (who many see as direct a channel of communication as a journalist can be without being a publicist) starts writing openly critical pieces, especially that quickly after a poor result, it has the feel of the tide turning against Mourinho. That, and the Evening Standard piece, smack to me of the club preparing the ground for sacking the manager. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't remember a Gold-penned piece as starkly critical as this one. Or maybe Gold isn't that much of a mouthpiece and it's a simple article, but I'm doubtful. Conjecture, of course, but it's still more noise in a volatile situation.

This is key for me. Ultimately, there's now too much friction at all levels in the club for his position to remain tenable, barring a pretty much binary flip in attitude and atmosphere around the club. Today was supposed to demonstrate that it could happen, but it didn't. The noise has now become too much. As HodisGawd says:



There is something to consider: whether he's right or wrong to blame the players publicly, he's right to blame them. I saw pass after pass after pass misplaced this afternoon. I saw no desire to get forward, I saw some unbelievably poor play on the pitch - something Mourinho cannot control.

I agree with Danny1

Yes, only Lucas of that list played today, but there was an appalling inability for some of our players to even deliver the basics of football this afternoon and that's happened before.

Depends on the context. As things stand now, no, I can't say I would. But not because I don't trust him to be able to bring in the right players, but because the atmosphere is too toxic for him to be able to operate in. Anything that Mourinho does from now on is going to be met with nothing but more toxicity, so it's too volatile a situation. As I say, there's just too much noise.

So, it seems clear to me that he'll be on his way soon. I don't see it as a wise choice to keep him anyway if the club has started briefing against him, which I think they have. I expect to see a lot of negative stories to start coming out in the next few days from 'unofficial' sources. In that situation, no manager can survive.

However, before we start celebrating too hard, I also think we're not going to enjoy the next phase very much at all. As I've been saying for a while, this club has some deep-rooted problems. If people are disenchanted with the football now, I think it'll be nothing compared to what we're going to see. None of this is anything but conjecture, of course, and I hope it doesn't happen, but the task ahead of the club is too big.

Has anyone ever gone on holiday and come back to find there's been a power cut and the fridge has stopped working while they've been away? If you have, you'll be well aware of the stench when you open the fridge door. That stench never goes away. You have to replace the fridge, simple as. We have dead-fridge stench at Spurs. And getting rid of Mourinho is not going to solve it. It may make the stench slightly more palatable, but there's a deeper problem. And not Nagelsmann, not Rodgers, not Potter, not anyone is going to fix it in anything under two seasons.

So strap in ladies and gents, we're in for a very rough ride.

Wow nice post mate. The Ali gold stuff is very telling I’d say, once he starts putting negative pieces out managers days can be numbered.

 

[YB123]

I dont think we can apportion all the blame to Jose though. If Jose goes, then several of the players have to go with him aswell. The usual names, many who have been year for far too long in my opinion.

 

[dontcallme]

I agree on all points, mate. The last point wasn't aimed at you in particular. It was just a general musing on how hard it is for us as fans to know what's really going on.

Absolutely. We the fans are merely observers from a distance. We are passionate about the club but our views are just trying to piece together what we see, hear and read.

We don't really know anything.