Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Dunc2610]

There are literally hundreds of times it's worked out, and times it hasn't.

I'll ask again because as yet everyone that has disagreed and replied to my take on this have completely avoided (which by the way is because questions are being asked by players, agents and even coaches at the club) why only 8 on the bench that included 2 keepers????

When had the academy boys played prior to the match, could be a reason, and weren't there two academy players on the bench anyway? Perhaps he thought others weren't up to it, Phillips was injured also so wasn't available?

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

Spoiler

View attachment 134804

We can go tit for tat on the definition, but my point was that glory and winning (titles), even in the context of football, aren't equivalent. Few would use the word glory in relation to Greece's Euro 2004 win for example.

I think it's unfair to compare us to Arsenal and Liverpool, as they are in completely different phases of their respective projects. And Arsenal arguably lost the title last season because Saliba got injured.

I also think that the Villa game showed that our depth is actually quite good. And even then we're in trouble in January, because Bissouma and Sarr are going to AFCON and Bentancur is out. But we can't build a squad based on AFCON. I hope we get a defender over the line quickly, though, hopefully even before the window opens, or at least before the United match.

Fair enough, but what’s important to keep in mind is that even without literal definitions of the word, it is still my opinion and my understanding of it that matters in terms of how I interpret the word in relation to football and our chants. At the end of the day, I was voicing my opinion and there is no real arguing with that, everyone can interpret things in their own way it’s one of the beautiful things about having a diverse fan base.

The reason I used Arsenal and Liverpool as examples is because that’s the level we aim to hit every season. I can respect that we’re at the beginning of project Ange, but I can’t accept the fact that our board has been leaving managers short in one way or another. One signing can make a huge difference, and we have the finances to do just a little more.

The past 3 games including Villa have just shown me one thing, getting that second CB during the summer window would’ve been immense. Who knows if we even lose those two games with adequate backup. That’s just a single signing that would have vastly improved our depth. Sometimes the smallest stone can create the biggest rippling effect.

Either way, the direction the team is heading under Ange Is extremely exciting, and I genuinely hope the board matches his ambitions with full backing.

 

[Mjerda]

There are literally hundreds of times it's worked out, and times it hasn't.

I'll ask again because as yet everyone that has disagreed and replied to my take on this have completely avoided (which by the way is because questions are being asked by players, agents and even coaches at the club) why only 8 on the bench that included 2 keepers????

I wasn't able to find the post, but someone on here mentioned (paraphrasing) it could be Ange's way of telling the academy players "there's a vacant spot here, come grab it"

If the level of the players just behind Donley and Dorrington is very even, it might be better to not pick someone random who's not going to get minutes anyway, as that could feel unfair on the others who'd think they deserved that spot.

We're all guessing here of course, and it might be something totally different, but I think it's a better explanation than Ange sending a message to Levy or that Ange just doesn't like providing a path for the academy players.

 

[mil1lion]

It's a fair point because its not like Donley has been left out the squad. Phillips has made the squad a few times. Dorrington and Austin made the bench Sunday so maybe they were the only ones who earned it. Even with Forster on the bench putting Austin there if he's impressed is still a good reward if he's earned it. We just haven't been in the best position to bring them on.

 

[RJR1949]

There are literally hundreds of times it's worked out, and times it hasn't.

I'll ask again because as yet everyone that has disagreed and replied to my take on this have completely avoided (which by the way is because questions are being asked by players, agents and even coaches at the club) why only 8 on the bench that included 2 keepers????

I presumed at the time that Ange was trying to make a point to DL about the need for reinforcements in January.

I wish he hadn’t done this and had instead put one or more of Austin, Abbot or Moore on the bench but I can’t think of any other reasonable explanation.

 

[Bluto Blutarsky]

Ange has been very clear since Day 1 - he runs a meritocracy.

Players earn opportunities on the training grounds.

Sometimes I think games like Football Manager and FIFA have distorted reality for many people. Players spend 10+ hours being coached on the training pitch and film study for every 1 hour they play in a match. The vast majority of player development takes place on the training ground - not getting called up to a match-day squad, or getting a 5-minute run-out, in a non-competitive environment.

By most accounts, Ange is providing a pathway to first team football, by including worthy Academy players in 1st team training sessions. Ange, and the coaches can then both work with those players, and compare those players to actual PL players side-by-side. The coaching staff will be best positioned to see how they compare and if they are ready, and if they have earned opportunities for minutes with the 1st team.


Imagine if Ange has been preaching about hard work in training, and performances in training that lead to opportunities - and then picks a player(s) who have not earned it yet? How would that make the other players feel? The players will all know who is performing well in training - so they will know if Ange is being honest about picking the players who are showing they deserve it.


It's also important to remember that not every player who does well against U21s, is able to make the jump to playing against bigger, stronger, faster players in the PL. Some do, most don't. Ange and the coaching staff can see who is ready to make that jump when they compare players to the existing 1st team players.

 

[SPURSLIFE]

I'm enjoying the ride under Ange and the football is so much more enjoyable than we have had to endure over the last few seasons, except for the last 3 matches although they were still good to watch even though we lost. However I wonder if Ange has a plan B? All top managers have to adapt at times due to injuries or opposition and I haven't seen any sign of it just yet. He has said that he'll not compromise the way we play and after the Chelsea game he said that even if we went down to 5 men he would insist on playing the same way and that the players know it. We have a big injury problem with our top players out for some time and now would be the time change tactics a little until we have a fit squad. I also hope he's not like Conte who never wanted to play the younger players, as now is a perfect time to blood a couple. They certainly can't do much worse and is a better alternative to playing players out of position. I look forward to the rest of the season under Ange but will watch with interest how he plays it, especially the next few matches.

 

[Led Revolver]

Ange has been very clear since Day 1 - he runs a meritocracy.

Players earn opportunities on the training grounds.

Sometimes I think games like Football Manager and FIFA have distorted reality for many people. Players spend 10+ hours being coached on the training pitch and film study for every 1 hour they play in a match. The vast majority of player development takes place on the training ground - not getting called up to a match-day squad, or getting a 5-minute run-out, in a non-competitive environment.

By most accounts, Ange is providing a pathway to first team football, by including worthy Academy players in 1st team training sessions. Ange, and the coaches can then both work with those players, and compare those players to actual PL players side-by-side. The coaching staff will be best positioned to see how they compare and if they are ready, and if they have earned opportunities for minutes with the 1st team.


Imagine if Ange has been preaching about hard work in training, and performances in training that lead to opportunities - and then picks a player(s) who have not earned it yet? How would that make the other players feel? The players will all know who is performing well in training - so they will know if Ange is being honest about picking the players who are showing they deserve it.


It's also important to remember that not every player who does well against U21s, is able to make the jump to playing against bigger, stronger, faster players in the PL. Some do, most don't. Ange and the coaching staff can see who is ready to make that jump when they compare players to the existing 1st team players.

Well said! It may also have something to do with attitude. They may already be acting like Billy big balls, which was Marcus Edward’s downfall allegedly.

I’d also suggest having your agents/parents keep asking why they aren’t being picked doesn’t create a good impression either. Train well with a good attitude, outperform the senior players and you’ll get picked. Prove that you’re enough of a professional to justify that title and you’ll play. It’s not a different concept to grasp. I’m sure that process is leading Ange’s decision making.

 

[mil1lion]

I'm enjoying the ride under Ange and the football is so much more enjoyable than we have had to endure over the last few seasons, except for the last 3 matches although they were still good to watch even though we lost. However I wonder if Ange has a plan B? All top managers have to adapt at times due to injuries or opposition and I haven't seen any sign of it just yet. He has said that he'll not compromise the way we play and after the Chelsea game he said that even if we went down to 5 men he would insist on playing the same way and that the players know it. We have a big injury problem with our top players out for some time and now would be the time change tactics a little until we have a fit squad. I also hope he's not like Conte who never wanted to play the younger players, as now is a perfect time to blood a couple. They certainly can't do much worse and is a better alternative to playing players out of position. I look forward to the rest of the season under Ange but will watch with interest how he plays it, especially the next few matches.

I think he has other plans but they will often be attacking changes. He tried Veliz up top in a 2 at the end to get a goal and he's typically strong in the air. So maybe the idea was to get crosses into him or maybe to offer more threat at set pieces. That could be a good plan b going forward. I think Richarlison when he's back as well would make a good plan b with his aerial threat. Shame Perisic is out as he was looking like a good bench option and one of our best crossers.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

There are literally hundreds of times it's worked out, and times it hasn't.

I'll ask again because as yet everyone that has disagreed and replied to my take on this have completely avoided (which by the way is because questions are being asked by players, agents and even coaches at the club) why only 8 on the bench that included 2 keepers????

Sorry to ask clarification but do you mean players/agents/coaches have been asking the club/Ange about the bench situation?

 

[eddiebailey]

In terms of younguns on the bench, the U21s have United in PL2 at home on Saturday before the first team face City away on Sunday.

I suppose players could play on the Saturday and still make the journey up on Sunday, especially if they’re just going to sit on the bench, but wouldn’t give much of a chance to train with the first team. Not sure it’s a good idea to strip out the U21s if there’s no chance of them playing.

 

[tevezito]

I wasn't able to find the post, but someone on here mentioned (paraphrasing) it could be Ange's way of telling the academy players "there's a vacant spot here, come grab it"

If the level of the players just behind Donley and Dorrington is very even, it might be better to not pick someone random who's not going to get minutes anyway, as that could feel unfair on the others who'd think they deserved that spot.

We're all guessing here of course, and it might be something totally different, but I think it's a better explanation than Ange sending a message to Levy or that Ange just doesn't like providing a path for the academy players.

It was me!
https://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/in...er-watch-ange-postecoglou.153140/post-8593768
And I hope it is at least part of the explanation, but as you say, we're all guessing. Time will tell.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

Anyone know if this is accurate?

Edit: guessing it's; Chelsea (3), Villa (3), Wolves (3), Arsenal (1), Brentford (1).

 

[spurs9]

Anyone know if this is accurate?

Edit: guessing it's; Chelsea (3), Villa (3), Wolves (3), Arsenal (1), Brentford (1).


View attachment 134833

Yeah, we went ahead v Brentford and drew (2), ahead v Chelsea and lost (3), ahead v Wolves and lost (3) and ahead v Villa and lost (3).

The Arsenal game is the only game we dropped points in but didn't take the lead.

Wolves is the only game where an incident out of our control (dodgy VAR decision or unfortunate injuries) didn't go against us.

 

[spurs mental]

Anyone know if this is accurate?

Edit: guessing it's; Chelsea (3), Villa (3), Wolves (3), Arsenal (1), Brentford (1).


View attachment 134833

We weren't ahead v Arsenal.

Assuming it's 9 in the last 3, and then 2 v Brentford as that finished in a draw.

 

[mil1lion]

It's nice to actually see us come out the traps fast again. Much of the first halfs last season were incredibly dull. We do need to keep pushing and be more clinical though. We're dropping 1 goal leads where we should be 2 or 3 goals up by half time. Also the injuries haven't helped us rotate so much but we do need to use our sub quota with intensity dropping later in the game.

 

[TOLBINY]

Anyone know if this is accurate?

Edit: guessing it's; Chelsea (3), Villa (3), Wolves (3), Arsenal (1), Brentford (1).


View attachment 134833

That is quite clearly down to Jose's / Contes negative tactics - we take the lead and then they tell the players to sit back and try to defend that lead.

 

[dontcallme]

Find it strange that people are seeing attacking football as poor defending.

They’re not the same thing.

Jose and Conte focused our setup on trying to be tight at the back and having players focusing on their defensive duties first. A lot of the football was counter attacking.

Ange has us looking to attack all the time and dominate the ball. Even with 9 men we played a high line and tried to attack.

That’s the difference in the approach.

It’s not “Jose and Conte wanted good defences and Ange wants a shit one.”

 

[mil1lion]

That is quite clearly down to Jose's / Contes negative tactics - we take the lead and then they tell the players to sit back and try to defend that lead.

Last season was largely sitting back defending at 0-0 though. We were incredibly slow to start first half of games. Even if you play that approach ideally you need at least a 2 goal lead to start defending. Jose used to do that well with Chelsea but didn't manage it here. We should have started much quicker under Conte and gone for goals early and then defend. Instead we sat off from the start and had to go extra hard 2nd half to make up for it. We start a lot more aggressive now but we're still failing to get more than 1 goal in front.

I don't mind defending if you have a solid defence but we still need a couple goals to defend. Even 2 nil is not a safe score really but a solid defence can do it. I personally prefer the Ange approach to keep attacking but we haven't got that drilled in yet. We still seem to score and then drop the tempo a bit. Ange wants us to not play to the scoreline but play the same aggressive attacking game whether 1 nil or 5 nil up. Once he has that drilled in we will blow some teams apart and the fans are going to love it.

 

[Nick-TopSpursMan]

That is quite clearly down to Jose's / Contes negative tactics - we take the lead and then they tell the players to sit back and try to defend that lead.

Funny how we’d only dropped 2 points from a winning position until our squad was obliterated by injuries. And even 3 of those points since are because we had 9 men…

Almost like we were very dominant because we attacked teams until we had an unprecedented injury crisis.