Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[neogenisis]

So many injuries and we will get bumps on the road, this bump was pretty painful. We keep going, it was a shit night, we have had worse and probs will have worse going forward. I am happy with Ange overall and believe he will get us where we want to be.

 

[rossdapep]

There's also the media narratives of hero to zero in a day, clickbait that stops fans from applying thought to the process, or understanding any nuance about the situation, make it kneejerk, get people angry, I want it now.

Yeah and Jamie O'Hara is right at the top of that.

He is one week saying 'I'm loving it'
Next week "It is too naive"

One extreme to the other, zero balance

 

[spurs mental]

Everyone going on about Emerson and Davies when it was Porro who didn't close down Pedro for their first, kulu being a fuckwit for the 2nd, the 3rd was a worldie and GLC being a fuckwit for the 4th.

Their 3rd was a worldie, but the drive and desire to close down Estupinian from Kulu and especially Johnson was absolutely non existent. Its like they almost expected Vicario to just pull another world class save off.

If that was Sunday league or under age level you'd go through the two of them for a shortcut

 

[soflapaul]

Because as a coach you have duty of care to ensure the player is ready mentally, not just technically.

If you give them a chance and they give a penalty away like Lo Celso or play a few okish but not great games until Van de Ven returns or a new signing comes in and they go back to the fringes, how do you think that will do their confidence?

Imagine if Ange had have decided to play Dorrington against City and we had gone on to lose 5 or 6 nil....

How do you think that would have panned out?

We got a result there with Emerson and Davies, it was worth trying again.

We have to look after young players too, not just throw them in when desperate

As always, enjoy your posts and as an ex coach, appreciate your sentiment there. Before all else, it is important to acknowledge that Ange as he has far more "data" to judge whether or not a player is brought on and he is definintely one of those that wants to win every game. But there is another reasonable viewpoint.

Against certain opposition, the Royal/Davies combination is less than ideal which includes aerial assaults a quick, technical midfield and/or an opposing team that can execute a high press. (esp with Biss and Rodrigo out). While some point out the fact that the four goals were not their errors, there were far too many opportunities gifted to Brighton that were their errors (Thank heaven for big Vic).

With the "just go out and play mate and if we fail, it's on me" attitude, Ange has far more flexibility to play some of these pups if they are mentally ready for it. Do they have thick enough skin that when they make the inevitable mistakes, are they able yet to slough if off? Many young players aren't. They are too sensitive. But if they are ready to take Michael Jordan's attitude of "I've missed more than 9,000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times I've been trusted to take the game-winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." then they could be out on the pitch, getting valuable experience rather than using a combination of players that have a high probability of limited success.

In the end, defaulting to trusting Ange is the easy choice since he has gotten so much right. But it doesn't mean he might not be wrong and both viewpoints are sensible absent any additional information. It's a debate between "blind trust" and "it can't get worse give the lads a go". In my mind, i'm fine with what Ange did given his resume to date and he is trying to win games above all. But that doesn't mean its wrong to think he could be missing a trick.

 

[only1waddle]

Yeah and Jamie O'Hara is right at the top of that.

He is one week saying 'I'm loving it'
Next week "It is too naive"

One extreme to the other, zero balance

Try one day.
Much like the world in general we don't have enough people in positions to educate, or offer thoughtful, logical opinion, it's not exciting enough and won't make money, O'Hara is merely a symptom of this incessant need to sensationalize everything.
Ask him off air and he's probably more measured about the project, but, he's got bills to pay and he's going to do it handsomely with Talkshite.

 

[McFlash]

He can say what he likes mate, it’s not his job to manage the vibes

And on the other hand, people are free to criticise what he's says without childish responses like "put me on ignore them, like I have you".
Isn't it a bit pathetic to put everyone that doesn't agree with what you say on ignore?
The site just becomes an echo chamber and that for me would be pretty fucking boring.

 

[Ossie85]

We are great going forward, but also the worst team defending, by far. It's very easy to get a shot on goal. With Lloris we would be in the bottom half of the table.
Ange is responsible for our turnaround from last year. This team plays much better, but he also needs to do something about the defense. We have the players in defensive positions, but they just stand there and watch. Defenders are always far away from their mark. And the tactic of putting our full backs inside is great for our attack, but terrible for our defense. They never get back on time

The injuries excuse is valid, but when you see Brighton had as many players out as us, we need to do a lot better than this.

 

[Ossie85]

I mean... it's this, right? Most of our vastly superior first teamers are out, and we're having to lumber on with the same players who've been demonstrably shite for years now. It wouldn't matter if we play a low block, high press, or 4-4-fackin-2. They're rubbish.

Brighton had these players injured. Most of them starters. Probably not as good as ours, but def players important for them
Webster
Lamptey
Veltman
Mitoma
Ansu Fati
Adingra
March
Enciso

 

[only1waddle]

We are great going forward, but also the worst team defending, by far. It's very easy to get a shot on goal. With Lloris we would be in the bottom half of the table.
Ange is responsible for our turnaround from last year. This team plays much better, but he also needs to do something about the defense. We have the players in defensive positions, but they just stand there and watch. Defenders are always far away from their mark. And the tactic of putting our full backs inside is great for our attack, but terrible for our defense. They never get back on time

The injuries excuse is valid, but when you see Brighton had as many players out as us, we need to do a lot better than this.

Brighton's squad has been built for consistency, for a Brighton style of football over the last 5 years, ours hasn't been built with consistency over 5 years, Brighton wouldn't have left RDZ with Dier, Davies and Emerson as plan b.
Our defence only started to go rotten when we lost key players, we went unbeaten before that conceding 0.72 goals a game with both Romero and VdV available.
It's injuries, and negligent foresight for those inevitable injuries.

 

[Hazelton]

Easy to forget that Ange is learning too, he'd be the first to admit that he has things he can improve on. He has been naive at times this season, he has made mistakes, but it's his first season in the most difficult league in the world and it doesn't discount the fact that there has been far more to like than dislike this season and the signs are very encouraging if we back him. I'm just happy that we're going for it again.

A couple of January reinforcements, completing the rebuild in the summer and a full season of Ange tactics under their belts and next season we can judge things properly.

 

[McFlash]

Well whatever the reason it doesn't work. The longer they get 0 minutes the longer we are stuck with this same back line which again doesn't work. Are the kids the answer? I don't know, but I'm very very certain the Emerson and Davies partnership isn't.

I didn't mind them as a partnership before but last night has really changed my mind.
Granted, most of the team were pretty terrible but I think a lot of that stemmed from the Cb's and Hojbjerg.

I understand why he hasn't played the kids yet but I'm now thinking that this is the time to let Phillips have a go.

In an ideal world, we'd be giving him minutes in a stable team with experience around him but I'm not sure we have the time to do that now.
I think Phillips has to start on Sunday.

 

[rossdapep]

We are great going forward, but also the worst team defending, by far. It's very easy to get a shot on goal. With Lloris we would be in the bottom half of the table.
Ange is responsible for our turnaround from last year. This team plays much better, but he also needs to do something about the defense. We have the players in defensive positions, but they just stand there and watch. Defenders are always far away from their mark. And the tactic of putting our full backs inside is great for our attack, but terrible for our defense. They never get back on time

The injuries excuse is valid, but when you see Brighton had as many players out as us, we need to do a lot better than this.

if we are dealing with hypotheticals, if we had Van De Ven, Bissouma, Bentancur and Romero fit, we wouldn't be conceding as many shots.

I'd like to see the data but I bet 'shots conceded' has shot up since the Chelsea game.

 

[muppetman]

This season was always going to throw up games like this, even more so with the injuries and no doubt fatigue of those playing more than they should.

The idea that Ange won't play the kids for "reasons" is such a load of old shite. He's said repeatedly that what he wants more than anything is to win, he will therefore pick the players he thinks give him the best chance to do that.

I think the Bournemouth game will be another really tough test and quite possibly another poor result, but it's all part of the fun for when it really starts to click.

 

[Hercules]

This season was always going to throw up games like this, even more so with the injuries and no doubt fatigue of those playing more than they should.

The idea that Ange won't play the kids for "reasons" is such a load of old shite. He's said repeatedly that what he wants more than anything is to win, he will therefore pick the players he thinks give him the best chance to do that.

I think the Bournemouth game will be another really tough test and quite possibly another poor result, but it's all part of the fun for when it really starts to click.

May as well loan out the kids then, because their futures are being hampered sitting on the bench.

 

[muppetman]

May as well loan out the kids then, because their futures are being hampered sitting on the bench.

They can join all the other young superstars from our academy who failed to make it with us but then went on to be world beaters . . .

 

[Joshua shepherd]

Everyone going on about Emerson and Davies when it was Porro who didn't close down Pedro for their first, kulu being a fuckwit for the 2nd, the 3rd was a worldie and GLC being a fuckwit for the 4th.

The third was a worldie but the defending from the corner was atrocious. Easily stoppable if someone was marking him or closing him down quicker.

 

[Yiddo100]

May as well loan out the kids then, because their futures are being hampered sitting on the bench.

I’m sure we will, but currently while the window is closed I don’t think it’ll be doing dorrington, Santiago ect much harm sitting on the bench and being around the first team while still playing with the u21s.

 

[McFlash]

You and I remember Sanchez very differently.

When he was at Ajax (lots of passing options for him) Jose targeted him in the EL final, as he was so poor at passing the ball under pressure.

And he had a nasty habit of falling over his own feet too.
Not to mention his uncanny ability to completely lose any high ball and his 50 pence piece shape head.

Sanchez would not have been an answer to our current woes.

 

[only1waddle]

May as well loan out the kids then, because their futures are being hampered sitting on the bench.

They'd be playing youth football this year anyway, with potential loans after that, nobody is "hampering" the likes of Dorrington at 18 years of age.

 

[McFlash]

Both Phillips and Dorrington are better on the ball than Emerson especially Dorrington imo although Phillips has other attributes.

As I said earlier if the plan is to cement this formula into the players brains so it becomes second nature, what's the point of doing that to a back up right back who has no long term future in that role. Of he were doing an adequate job right now I'd understand, but he isn't.

As I say I don't know if Alfie is the answer. I do know 100% that Emerson is not.

I think this nicely sums up where I'm at this morning.
I don't really want to throw the kids in at the deep end but something needs to change at the back...and also in front of them too, PEH just isn't a fit for that role