Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[bubble07]

The scum have saka and martinelli who score and assist regularly. Until we have players of similar calibre this will continue

 

[mmidgers]

The scum have saka and martinelli who score and assist regularly. Until we have players of similar calibre this will continue

Big time. Our wide play is very predictable. Would love ginola in this side

 

[muppetman]

Good to see Ange has also go the right fucking hump like the rest of us. The players need to step the fuck up.

Oh and levy does in the transfer market as well. Back the guy ffs.

Once again he gets it absolutely spot on.

Suspect the lads are in for a bit of a roasting and some tough sessions on the training pitch.

 

[cozzo]

Won't stand for any Ange out talk. He is the one. We are now visibly better than nearly everyone we have played. Even teams that beat us, accept that we are better. Let Ange get the right squad and it will be curtains for this league. Teams are not breaking us down and scoring goals, we are gifting the goals.

 

[Legacy]

I am willing to fight anybody who is starting to question Ange and/or his philosophy right now.

Results have been poor recently, no doubt about that, but we have been incredibly unfortunate in most of these games. For all the "Spurs throw players forward so they leave themselves open defensively" comments, almost every game we've dropped points in has been in large part to a stroke of misfortune:
-Brentford: Own goal and penalty
-Arsenal: Own goal and penalty
-Chelsea: Penalty, two red cards, two injuries
-Man City: Own goal
-West Ham: Clearance ricocheted directly to opposition striker, poor back pass to keeper

I'd argue only Wolves and Villa have taken points off us without any help from our own players. And even then, Wolves needed an absolutely world class volley in injury time and against Villa, we had about 45 goals disallowed.

And, Wolves aside, we've been playing some absolutely beautiful football. We haven't been turning that beautiful football into goals often enough against defensive minded teams (We've averaged 2 goals a game against the top 6) but there's no doubt in my mind that it will come once we get injured players back, new players come in and everyone is fully up to speed with the system.

Let us not forget that, even during our unbeaten run, Ange repeatedly stressed that there was massive scope for improvement in our attacking game. It will come, we just need to maintain patience and support.

Also, and this may just be me, but I've still enjoyed watching these last 5 winless games more than anything we managed to cook up last year. And it's refreshing to feel disappointed and aggrieved at a loss, instead of just feeling resigned to it, as it felt in the last few years.

 

[Stamford]

I don't think anyone is saying Ange out. But last night was average and that stops with him sadly. Actually think people are being quite relaxed given the run we are on

 

[Yantino]

Hard to criticise, even though the run of losses is a concern.

He's done wonders already and I think we as fans need to be realistic about where we actually are. Our amazing start has probably shifted a lot of peoples expectations. So it's important to look at the bigger picture. Anyone questioning him when losing so many players to injury and suspension in such a short amount of time, having only been here since August needs to give their head a wobble.

We lost last night to two freak goals.

 

[Metalhead]

I don't think anyone is saying Ange out. But last night was average and that stops with him sadly. Actually think people are being quite relaxed given the run we are on

Conversely, maybe people got carried away at the beginning of the season. Sometimes I think that people don't listen to what Ange says in his press conferences.

 

[PaulM]

I am willing to fight anybody who is starting to question Ange and/or his philosophy right now.

Results have been poor recently, no doubt about that, but we have been incredibly unfortunate in most of these games. For all the "Spurs throw players forward so they leave themselves open defensively" comments, almost every game we've dropped points in has been in large part to a stroke of misfortune:
-Brentford: Own goal and penalty
-Arsenal: Own goal and penalty
-Chelsea: Penalty, two red cards, two injuries
-Man City: Own goal
-West Ham: Clearance ricocheted directly to opposition striker, poor back pass to keeper

I'd argue only Wolves and Villa have taken points off us without any help from our own players. And even then, Wolves needed an absolutely world class volley in injury time and against Villa, we had about 45 goals disallowed.

And, Wolves aside, we've been playing some absolutely beautiful football. We haven't been turning that beautiful football into goals often enough against defensive minded teams (We've averaged 2 goals a game against the top 6) but there's no doubt in my mind that it will come once we get injured players back, new players come in and everyone is fully up to speed with the system.

Let us not forget that, even during our unbeaten run, Ange repeatedly stressed that there was massive scope for improvement in our attacking game. It will come, we just need to maintain patience and support.

Also, and this may just be me, but I've still enjoyed watching these last 5 winless games more than anything we managed to cook up last year. And it's refreshing to feel disappointed and aggrieved at a loss, instead of just feeling resigned to it, as it felt in the last few years.

Nobody is saying Ange out. But there's another view here - we're leaking goals because of the set up. It isn't all bad luck.

Brentford - we're very, very high for the OG and Emerson gets done because he's so high.
Chelsea - that's not luck, it's stupidity and ill discipline. As fun as our response to going down to 9 men was, it was crazy. We'd have lost anyway but it was mad.
Man City - we're defending stupidly high on the free kick which forces our defenders to defend facing their own goal. We did the same against Villa. Also, Bissouma losing the ball is not something he'd have done under Conte or Mourinho. He'd have laid it off.

Ange has been a breath of fresh air and the fans at the games are still well behind him. But he has shortcomings.

 

[Ginola+Tonic]

The scum have saka and martinelli who score and assist regularly. Until we have players of similar calibre this will continue

Martinelli who has 2 league goals?
Romero has more.

Saka who has 5, Kulusevski has 4 only 1 less.

We miss a presence up front, ironically Harry Kane would’ve absolutely loved playing in this system and team.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

So is it just that:
1) Teams have now had the chance to analyse how we play and so, as Moyes suggested, come up with plans to contain us, as they can't easily stop us?
2) The system we plays requires incredibly high fitness and stamina levels which right now we can't keep up for more than 60-70 minutes? Teams know if they hang in then tiredness will lead to mistakes? The mistakes for the goals could have just been down to our tiredness and the opposition saving their energy for late in the game. It's like we are the ideal team for a Conte style team to play against
3) Ange's methods are great in leagues with far less intensity and competition. They can clearly work in the PL but not unless you have a squad of super fit players. So we have to go out and buy more such players. Maybe at half-time we make 4-5 subs and go again with intensity? Perhaps next season our players will be at the fitness levels needed.

I definitely think point 2 is relevant. It seems if we don't get well on top in the first half and score at least two goals, then the opposition wait until our intensity drop and start imposing themselves more. In the first ten matches this wasn't as much of an issue because we had players like Hojberg, Persic, Skipp, Richarlison who would come on and help us maintain intensity and close out matches. With a decimated squad we're struggling to be clinical when we're on top, and then don't have as many options to maintain intensity when we start to fatigue in the second half.

As we start building squad depth over the next few windows this should help resolve the problem. And tbf we won't face many teams that can withstand us scoring a couple of goals in the first half like West Ham did, or Wolves/Villa. Many of the prem teams play progressive football now so are more open at the back. It will be a slightly bumpy ride this season because of the issues i've mentioned but overall we're heading in the right decision to so i'm more than happy to trust the process.

 

[THOWIG]

If Maddison played last night we win.

Players missing a hat full of chances against Villa or a player passing back poorly to his keeper isn’t on Ange.

We need better quality in the final third we know that, but it’s going to take time and players.

 

[C1w8]

So is it just that:
1) Teams have now had the chance to analyse how we play and so, as Moyes suggested, come up with plans to contain us, as they can't easily stop us?
2) The system we plays requires incredibly high fitness and stamina levels which right now we can't keep up for more than 60-70 minutes? Teams know if they hang in then tiredness will lead to mistakes? The mistakes for the goals could have just been down to our tiredness and the opposition saving their energy for late in the game. It's like we are the ideal team for a Conte style team to play against
3) Ange's methods are great in leagues with far less intensity and competition. They can clearly work in the PL but not unless you have a squad of super fit players. So we have to go out and buy more such players. Maybe at half-time we make 4-5 subs and go again with intensity? Perhaps next season our players will be at the fitness levels needed.

its all of that + 4) we've lost so many players at various points in this run. and we dont have a squad with enough quality to cover the absences without a significant drop off.

The last month has been brutal results wise but we're about where we should be - we were very lucky to get some of the results we got earlier in the year (sheff united, Liverpool alone we should have collected 4 points less, if not 5) and similarly we shouldve picked up more against villa and west ham, and probably chelsea though the implosion happened so early it's difficult to tell which way that would have swung.

Never seen a season with such extreme swings from memory but hopefully we can figure it out for the next run of games and stay in contentino for 4th/5th.

 

[mpickard2087]

I don't think there is anything tactically to change. The play up to the penalty area is fine, at that point as a collective we need to improve our composure, decision making, and just feels like all of a sudden we feel the pressure and start second guessing ourselves. We knock it around under pressure and in tight spaces for two thirds of the pitch, yet it's like in front of goal with defenders bearing down they need another touch or half a second or to look rather than being decisive.

Individually though it is different.

Don't think we need a striker, as the chatter is starting to go. Son's job is to poach and make short sharp bursts through the defensive line/in front of goal. He's doing this fine, even last night he was there for many tap in's if the final ball was better.

We definitely need two wide players though, especially for the multitude of games like this against teams parking the bus and defending their penalty area. High acceleration, high agility, great close control direct dribblers able to go both ways and stress the edges of opposition defences. I've said all along that I only saw Johnson as a Son understudy and my mind hasn't changed (Son, Johnson, and Veliz as a young 9 with size I'd be content with). Kulusevski I'm rapidly losing patience with - we all know he has something, and he is better in more open games, but the system tends to switch to the right flank and have the wide man with ample opportunity to go at the defence, yet momentum dies too often as the ginger wardrobe stumbles forward.

Midfield still needs another ball player. Even with Maddison and Lo Celso I'd want one more (I'd play two 8/10's most weeks, I've said numerous times), and it's a shame Bentancur is out again because tbh I much prefer a pass and move, circulatory pivot than the Bissouma/Dembele extra dribbling flashiness but sloppy and/or fairly myopic passing ability.

Ultimately though I/we all keep saying Rome wasn't built in a day. All we can do is remain patient at the moment. The foundations look fine, we're getting glimpses of what could be, but there is a road to go down and additions needed before we get there.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I love Ange and if we get injured players back and some proper depth in the squad i think he'll do great things.

But I would like to see more ability to adapt when things aren't going well.

We don't really have the players to go full-on Ange's style of football right now so we either need to bring in young players who fit that philosophy or try to do things a bit differently whilst we have the likes of Hojberg and Davies in the team.

 

[Krafty]

Still early days. Ange is working out players, players working out the system, and we don’t know a plan B (if that will ever be a thing under Ange)

As long as we continue to develop it’s fine, this is for the long term

 

[dimiSpur]

Nobody is saying Ange out. But there's another view here - we're leaking goals because of the set up. It isn't all bad luck.

Brentford - we're very, very high for the OG and Emerson gets done because he's so high.
Chelsea - that's not luck, it's stupidity and ill discipline. As fun as our response to going down to 9 men was, it was crazy. We'd have lost anyway but it was mad.
Man City - we're defending stupidly high on the free kick which forces our defenders to defend facing their own goal. We did the same against Villa. Also, Bissouma losing the ball is not something he'd have done under Conte or Mourinho. He'd have laid it off.

Ange has been a breath of fresh air and the fans at the games are still well behind him. But he has shortcomings.

What a load of shit. We would be 14th with our squad under Conte and Mourinho. You can't pick and choose moments. Both the football and the results ultimately under both those managers was shit. Piss poor shit. Their plans were keep it tight and wait for Kane and/or Sonny to do something extraordinary. And by the way, we couldn't keep it tight.

Were you not creaming in the first half last night when the passing was coming off? We can't have it both ways. We take risks to play the football we play. What we need to cut out is the silly mistakes, like Udogie's and Bissouma's. That's not down to the manager, that's personal lapses in concentration which, you'd hope, will slowly eradicate.

Destiny is 21 and this is his first season in England. As far as I'm concerned he's hit the ground running and will improve even more as time goes by. In fact, I'd be surprised if he's not at a City, Real or Bayern by the time he's 26.

There are so many positives to our side. As Ange said, if we had a little more conviction, Villa and West Ham would have been 5-0 drubbings. Alas, they weren't. But when we say we have some way to go, its to iron out and eradicate these kinds of situations.

Let's not forget we are playing without our two best performers so far this season in Madders and VDV, whilst arguably our most talented CM has played a total of 45 minutes for us (Bentancur).

Most goals we've conceded are not down to the system but personal player errors. As for your suggestion that our defensive line is too high on set pieces, the one time we were deep was against Villa for Torres' equaliser. Deep doesn't mean your facing the ball, it means you allow deep runners to gain momentum on you and inevitably win headers in dangerous areas.

I can't believe people are questioning the method. We play the best football in the league with half a team out. May I remind everyone of the depression we were in in the summer, when we sold our greatest ever goalscorer and replaced him with NO ONE. How optimistic were we about the season? Not very. Now all of a sudden we are giving it the large one.

We need to stick with the team. Results since the disastrous game that was Chelsea have been poor, of course. But the wheels literally fell off that night and yet still, we are playing a system despite personnel. I find it impressive. What we lack is goals to kill teams off. Guess why we aren't doing that. Could it be because apart from Sonny we have no goalscorers? It might be you know.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

The scum have saka and martinelli who score and assist regularly. Until we have players of similar calibre this will continue

Spot on mate, I said this at the start of the season that our wingers or attack are by far our weakest area, they simply don't score or create enough goals on a regular basis, Ange needs help in Jan and next summer I think he'll want at least 2 top quality attacking players e.g. Jota and a striker who can put the ball in the back of the net!.

 

[-Afri-Coy-]

What a load of shit. We would be 14th with our squad under Conte and Mourinho. You can't pick and choose moments. Both the football and the results ultimately under both those managers was shit. Piss poor shit. Their plans were keep it tight and wait for Kane and/or Sonny to do something extraordinary. And by the way, we couldn't keep it tight.

Were you not creaming in the first half last night when the passing was coming off? We can't have it both ways. We take risks to play the football we play. What we need to cut out is the silly mistakes, like Udogie's and Bissouma's. That's not down to the manager, that's personal lapses in concentration which, you'd hope, will slowly eradicate.

Destiny is 21 and this is his first season in England. As far as I'm concerned he's hit the ground running and will improve even more as time goes by. In fact, I'd be surprised if he's not at a City, Real or Bayern by the time he's 26.

There are so many positives to our side. As Ange said, if we had a little more conviction, Villa and West Ham would have been 5-0 drubbings. Alas, they weren't. But when we say we have some way to go, its to iron out and eradicate these kinds of situations.

Let's not forget we are playing without our two best performers so far this season in Madders and VDV, whilst arguably our most talented CM has played a total of 45 minutes for us (Bentancur).

Most goals we've conceded are not down to the system but personal player errors. As for your suggestion that our defensive line is too high on set pieces, the one time we were deep was against Villa for Torres' equaliser. Deep doesn't mean your facing the ball, it means you allow deep runners to gain momentum on you and inevitably win headers in dangerous areas.

I can't believe people are questioning the method. We play the best football in the league with half a team out. May I remind everyone of the depression we were in in the summer, when we sold our greatest ever goalscorer and replaced him with NO ONE. How optimistic were we about the season? Not very. Now all of a sudden we are giving it the large one.

We need to stick with the team. Results since the disastrous game that was Chelsea have been poor, of course. But the wheels literally fell off that night and yet still, we are playing a system despite personnel. I find it impressive. What we lack is goals to kill teams off. Guess why we aren't doing that. Could it be because apart from Sonny we have no goalscorers? It might be you know.

Fun fact - at the same point last season, we had 30 points under Conte, we currently have 27. You should probably do some research before spouting things like this with such conviction.

The rest of your post is pretty spot on though.

 

[dimiSpur]

I love Ange and if we get injured players back and some proper depth in the squad i think he'll do great things.

But I would like to see more ability to adapt when things aren't going well.

We don't really have the players to go full-on Ange's style of football right now so we either need to bring in young players who fit that philosophy or try to do things a bit differently whilst we have the likes of Hojberg and Davies in the team.

I couldn't disagree more. We aren't losing due to the system, we are losing because we aren't putting teams to bed when we are dominating and we are making silly errors and being punished by teams who are showing us what being clinical looks like.

Let me put it another way. If the ricochet goal didn't materialise, and we went on to win 2-1 in the 80th minute, would you be here today bemoaning the performance or Ange's rigidity? I don't think so.