Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[SpartanSpur]

The short term mentality starts at the top. We have never truly backed a manager, we even sack managers like Jol when most fans wanted him to stay then did net zero with Poch. The club might have changed, maybe Munn in the CFO role with Lange means things are different now. However it’s 20 plus years of behaviour embedded at the club. This summer I do hope we put a proper wedge of cash down to fix all of our issues, not some or most but all and make it clear that Ange or at least this style of football is where we are going and we are going to see the job through. There cannot be hesitation from the club, no more half arsed way of doing it. With continued and proper commitment I hope that will also change the attitude of the fanbase but the fanbase won’t change unless the club show guts and direction.

Totally agree.

It's taken 5 years of constant direction for Arsenal to mature and focus on the 'details'. That's because for most of their squad the system is second nature.

That's said they were still fortunate with how the goals fell today. They are getting praised for their resiliency but had Mickey been onside or Romero not hit the post I think we get a result today.

As you said we came close to this with Poch, but at the time frustratingly didn't have the right resources for the gradual rebuild he knew he needed. There's a reason even before the wheels starting fell off we still stumbled to 4th and made a CL Final. We've since seen with Jose and Conte how quickly things unravel during shorter, less established tenures.

Ange has his flaws but I personally think he's a guy that deserves 2-3 seasons to really get us going.

I get it hurts to lose big games like this but we just have to tough it out for now IMO.

 

[1882andallthat]

I very much disagree with this idea that "teams have found out how we play."

Well they have sure as hell worked out how we can be easily got at from corners, there’s no doubt about that. Ever since Man City roughed up Vicario and got that winner in the last couple of minutes to knock us out of the FA cup, many others have tried the same thing and we sure look vulnerable when this happens, add that to our he fact that we’re often second to the header from corners or in swinging or diagonal free kicks into the box.

it’s a learning curve for Vicario who for the most part has been really good but that part of his game is a weak spot. He needs to be more aggressive and no nonsense when players try to step on him and intimidate him right on his line some work to do to iron out that weakness for next season. I’m willing to believe he can do this.

We’re also far too passive and reactive when dealing with corners and set pieces and so often look weak and almost odds on to be second to the ball and that alway puts you in danger of conceding from set pieces. It’s clear teams can see this a mile off and the vibes we’re giving off are like we’re scared of any opposition at corners as if we’re openly admitting the team attacking are favourites to score as opposed to us being favourites to clear it.

It’s clear from some of Ange’s post match comments that he knows this a weakness we have. Much work to do there too. We simply can’t afford for this to continue if we want to go places.

 

[SpartanSpur]

Hopefully, the board are more committed to the managers ideas than much of the fan base appear to be because if not, we really are doomed to an incessant cycle of constant rebuilding.

I genuinely think he will get time from Levy especially.

I have a feeling the failure of the Jose/Nuno/Conte hires weigh heavily on him and he is now acutely aware of what we as a club need to do to properly contend.

Firstly in terms of style, which IMO Ange fits, and secondly in terms of allowing someone to properly build like Poch did. I think it'd have to be a total disaster for him to not at least give him all of next season. Its not like there are a ton of obvious options out there anyway.

 

[robotsonic]

His comments about set pieces are obviously concerning but at this stage of the season I can understand why he’s saying what he’s saying. He is probably just defending his back room team in the public eye, im sure behind the scenes he will be disappointed by our performance in that are. Likewise he will probably think it’s something that will need to be properly addressed in the summer not at the tail end of the season. That probably goes for a few tactical issues throughout the team.

This is also what I took from it, in protecting the coaches. He spoke right at the very start of the season about letting his coaches get on with their areas and him not dictating how they go about their job. He's not a micromanager in that sense. They're going to be judged on the results of what they've been asked to achieve as much as anyone is. If it's Jedinak or someone that's responsible for what we're seeing, Ange will be taking it up with him at Hotspur Way imo, and it's going to need to improve one way or another come next season.

He is not a stupid man. He's not going to somehow not know that it is an issue and have his head in the sand, and he's not going to want all of everyone's hard work elsewhere go to waste because we keep pissing our own pants and undoing any good work in scoring goals by gifting others away.

I'd also imagine, given how he seems to see the game (attack best form of defence sense), that he would rather focus on the players implementing his ideas in such a way that we don't concede so many sodding corners in the first place, as if you don't concede so many then it also becomes less of a threat. We concede the 4th most corners in the league. Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Villa are 4 of the 5 teams that have conceded the fewest.

 

[THOWIG]

Love Ange. His philosophy and how he wants to play the game I’m completely behind. Some of the knee jerk reactions on here are embarrassing. Can we improve? Of course. Does the squad need improving? Absolutely.

I’d love to know who you’d all replace him with?

It’s his first season in charge. No one on here expected a 5th place finish and if you did you’re lying.

 

[whenstevewentup]

I don’t care what he says , as a fan I expect my manager to get the defensive coaches to organise the team as a collective to defend better at corners . The fact we haven’t even changed the style against the best set piece team in the league is absolutely staggering . We’ve had 2 weeks to prepare for it .

 

[bubble07]

We need a new DM and 3 new forwards

 

[THOWIG]

We need a new DM and 3 new forwards

At least, but we’re not going to get them all in the summer. We need to be patient.

 

[cjsimba]

Ange is trying to instil this idea that we don’t change our philosophy and approach no matter what.

For example, we saw it against Chelsea when we kept the high line when we went down to 9 men.

I wonder if him not changing the zonal marking at set pieces is the same idea. He doesn’t want to say ‘hey guys, this isn’t working let’s switch it up’ as it will sow a seed a doubt in the squad’s minds and damage the overall philosophy of ‘we stick to the process laid out no matter what’.

Ange is not stupid and I think will address the set piece issue when we are further along as a team, but for now he won’t/can’t change it until the new mentality he’s trying to implement is fully ingrained in the squad.

Not sure if that’s a good thing or not as conceding every game from set pieces is a disaster but it might be why we’re not seeing any changes.

 

[1882andallthat]

This is also what I took from it, in protecting the coaches. He spoke right at the very start of the season about letting his coaches get on with their areas and him not dictating how they go about their job. He's not a micromanager in that sense. They're going to be judged on the results of what they've been asked to achieve as much as anyone is. If it's Jedinak or someone that's responsible for what we're seeing, Ange will be taking it up with him at Hotspur Way imo, and it's going to need to improve one way or another come next season.

He is not a stupid man. He's not going to somehow not know that it is an issue and have his head in the sand, and he's not going to want all of everyone's hard work elsewhere go to waste because we keep pissing our own pants and undoing any good work in scoring goals by gifting others away.

I'd also imagine, given how he seems to see the game (attack best form of defence sense), that he would rather focus on the players implementing his ideas in such a way that we don't concede so many sodding corners in the first place, as if you don't concede so many then it also becomes less of a threat. We concede the 4th most corners in the league. Arsenal, City, Liverpool and Villa are 4 of the 5 teams that have conceded the fewest.

I agree with this on the whole but no manager can afford to believe that they can try to avoid conceding corners in the hope that this problem will go away, it won’t. Even the best teams concede corners because it’s exceptionally hard to go through whole games consistently and not concede the odd one or two or in our case more than that. Behind every he scenes he knows it’s an issue that’s becoming a bigger problem that must be dealt with.

 

[Mjerda]

For me, if we ignore our obvious issues at corners (why aren't we doing the same against Raya, btw?), I think the first half was one of our better performances. Arsenal were completely nullified except for one successful counter attack. I don't count their corners as every team will get a couple of corners no matter how shit they are. I mean, we actually created quite a lot in front of their goal, pressed them brilliantly and rarely lost the ball in dangerous situations. Having watched my share of Arsenal games lately (waiting for them to fail), I've seen how they destroy most of their opponents. Today, they had to rely on luck and our bad defending on set pieces to get a result.

There's always a lot of negativity after loosing, but looking beyond the result, I'm really not disappointed with the performance at all

 

[rossdapep]

I love Ange as a person and I truly want him to succeed. I think it’s the game as a whole that I struggle with nowadays. I haven’t missed a home game in god knows how long, the stadiums nice, the shops nice and the pre game entertainment is all very well done but as for the football, I find it really difficult to watch. To me, it’s fucking boring! The passing, the cheating, time wasting, var, crap refs, more passing, no shooting! Like I say, boring. I feel like a 45 year old dinosaur, where’s the superstars? What happened to taking on a player or smashing one in from 25 yards? I looked at Arsenal’s lineup before kick off and I thought, really?! Is that it? Trossard, Havertz, Tomiyasu, White….just well drilled players who spend the whole game cheating to get a result. They’re nothing special and we just played straight into their hands. Crap tactics, poor defending and no fight. I’m happy to give Ange time because we can’t keep chopping and changing, but honestly I’m not sure I even care. I’m truly falling out of love with the game.

Yep that's how I felt today.

Arsenal don't have anything special jyst incredibly well drilled and their little tactics during a game which no ref or authorities have tried to stamp out.

But I don't think the PL us as good as people make out.

And that's why this Arsenal team are excelling.

Where are the elite attacking players in the PL?

Foden, Silva, De Bruyne.

After that, I'm struggling.

And that's why it pays to cheat because all the big teams lack those huge players that would just roll over teams like that.

As a spectacle it's fucking boring.

City dominate despite cheating.
Arsenal have excelled via cheating.
Liverpool won the PL largely through Salah and Mane diving to win pens

Players are falling down under minimal contact because they are under pressure and lack the craft to get out of it.

The constant micro managing of decisions.

It's lost its appeal for me.

Arsenal win the title? They are welcome to it. It's a shit league, hyped up and lost its magic years ago.

 

[bubble07]

At least, but we’re not going to get them all in the summer. We need to be patient.

Sort of agree but if we have this rumoured 200m then why can't it be possible? Eze Olise Toney would cost 170m for example. Get a 30m DM and let's get this moving. We had 4 new first team signings start of this season so it's possible

 

[jackson]

For me, if we ignore our obvious issues at corners (why aren't we doing the same against Raya, btw?), I think the first half was one of our better performances. Arsenal were completely nullified except for one successful counter attack. I don't count their corners as every team will get a couple of corners no matter how shit they are. I mean, we actually created quite a lot in front of their goal, pressed them brilliantly and rarely lost the ball in dangerous situations. Having watched my share of Arsenal games lately (waiting for them to fail), I've seen how they destroy most of their opponents. Today, they had to rely on luck and our bad defending on set pieces to get a result.

There's always a lot of negativity after loosing, but looking beyond the result, I'm really not disappointed with the performance at all

We played well enough but lacking in the final third. We were the better side in general play but gifted them 3 pathetic goals.

The problem right now is you don't need to be good to beat us, the blueprint is there for all to exploit.

 

[THOWIG]

Sort of agree but if we have this rumoured 200m then why can't it be possible? Eze Olise Toney would cost 170m for example. Get a 30m DM and let's get this moving. We had 4 new first team signings start of this season so it's possible

Ah sorry I hadn’t heard about that amount.

 

[robotsonic]

I agree with this on the whole but no manager can afford to believe that they can try to avoid conceding corners in the hope that this problem will go away, it won’t. Even the best teams concede corners because it’s exceptionally hard to go through whole games consistently and not concede the odd one or two or in our case more than that. Behind every he scenes he knows it’s an issue that’s becoming a bigger problem that must be dealt with.

I'm not saying that his idea will be to not concede corners at all and to just solve the problem that way, but that he will take that up with whoever is coaching the defensive set pieces, I am sure of it, because otherwise good work is being undone due to it. We lost the game today due to it.

Of course you're always going to concede them, but we concede more than double Arsenal on average for example. The prem average per game is 5.4 conceded but we had 73% possession against Newcastle and conceded 16 corners. There is clearly much work to be done before it even gets to the opposition taking a corner, and I'd wager that is Ange's personal concern in terms of how he sees his personal responsibility in getting the way of playing into the team.

 

[Sp3akerboxxx]

We did look much improved over the Newcastle game.

Chelsea can definitely be got at, and I'd be amazed if we didn't score a couple in that game too.

 

[robotsonic]

Sort of agree but if we have this rumoured 200m then why can't it be possible? Eze Olise Toney would cost 170m for example. Get a 30m DM and let's get this moving. We had 4 new first team signings start of this season so it's possible

I think we all know that we're not spaffing 200 big ones, and even if we were the idea that we could even sign all of those if we wanted to, would even want Toney, and then go and short change ourselves by spending the least of all in the biggest area of concern in the whole squad is peak short-termism-SC material if I've ever seen it imo.

 

[Mjerda]

We played well enough but lacking in the final third. We were the better side in general play but gifted them 3 pathetic goals.

The problem right now is you don't need to be good to beat us, the blueprint is there for all to exploit.

Agreed, but it feels like a short term and very specific problem, rather than overall shittiness.

 

[Albertbarich]

Everyone wanted a rebuild and that's what we're seeing.

It's a team growing and even with our naivity we could have easily won today

Patience.