Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

[Ghost Hardware]

This

1

Familiar lesson beckons for Levy​

Ange Postecoglou found enough blue sky in the Spurs squad he inherited to make a pair of sailor’s trousers out of the opening 10 games of the season. The rest of the season since then feels like a return to the mean. Spurs would currently be eighth in the Premier League if their form outside of that supercharged start was rolled out across an entre season. Fifth place is probably above par for this miscellaneous group of players and the manager’s own first look at the league. And while defeat in the north London derby will sting, as will the high likelihood now that Spurs will finish outside the Champions League spots, it is also important to remember that fast start was also real, a taster of how Postecoglou can make this team hum with the right ingredients. Spurs are well-placed financially. The lesson here is that Daniel Levy needs to back his man in the summer – does this sound at all familiar? – and build on the good times of Ange Year Zero before any judgment can begin to be passed on the ultimate ceiling of this Spurs iteration. Barney Ronay

This 100% re summer. Calls for Ange to adapt his tactics overall may end up being needed but currently they are premature IMO. Yes I'm expecting tweaks and our set play work needs a complete overhaul but the fundamentals of the system don't need changing, yet. Until Ange has a full squad of players he trusts then we have no idea what he is really capable of. We need to wait and see if given the right tools Ange's tactics can work before asking/expecting them to be significantly altered.

I only really have three concerns at the moment, our awful set piece tactics, Ange's in game man management and if Levy will fully back Ange in the summer. Im hoping the first will be rectified over the summer and the second will become less of an issues if Levy pulls of a good window.

 

[djhotspur]

Last season we lost 0-2 at home to Woolwich, we had more shots (17-14) more shots on target (7-5) and edged possesion (51%-49%). Were poor in the first half and good in the second under a coach deemed negative and boring!

Yeah but we were completely out played in that game, whereas this one we looked the better side

 

[TOLBINY]

Because it takes time to coach these things, it takes time to get in the right players, it takes time to change a playing mentality. That’s a lot to do in one season.

If we were in danger of being relegated, or Ange was in danger of losing the dressing room, or similar, then I would agree with you. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

But we’re not really driving with no brakes when it looks like we’ll cruise into 5th or maybe worst case 6th.

That should apply to all managers.

 

[Yantino]

Because it takes time to coach these things, it takes time to get in the right players, it takes time to change a playing mentality. That’s a lot to do in one season.

If we were in danger of being relegated, or Ange was in danger of losing the dressing room, or similar, then I would agree with you. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

But we’re not really driving with no brakes when it looks like we’ll cruise into 5th or maybe worst case 6th.

Spot on. People actually calling for him to be sacked is crazy IMO and very short-sighted.

 

[TOLBINY]

Yeah but we were completely out played in that game, whereas this one we looked the better side

First half yes, second half no.

 

[funkycoldmedina]

If we played like we did against Arsenal yesterday for most of the second half of the season we'd have walked into the Champions League places. The big questions are over games like Newcastle and Fulham, when teams have completely outplayed us and shut down our play style.

Why yesterday did our midfield have the run of things but couldn't keep the ball for ten seconds against Fulham? Fixing defending corners is easy compared to that.

I agree and was my biggest concern about yesterday, how can you press and be tenacious one game but switch off in others, that to me is a mental resilience thing. Good players might need to go because they're too inconsistent

 

[PLTuck]

I don’t think that’s a fair assessment. The coaching staff need to change something as we are far too easy to predict, in all aspects of the match. Defending, attacking. It’s all very obvious. I’m not on board with people wanting Ange gone, but he has to address these issues or we’re going nowhere. We only get what we deserve by not learning from mistakes. What we are currently seeing is the definition of madness.

The get what we deserve was in reference to the constant churn of managers and never winning any silverware.

Even I can see we are lacking in defending set pieces and I'm as far from a tactical guru as it's possible to get. The idea that all the analysts and coaches genuinely think we are doing fine at them because Ange said it's not a big issue in a presser is nonsense. (Not you but has been the general theme of this thread for the past 10+ pages) I am absolutely certain that what is said behind the scenes is very different to what is said in front of the cameras in this instance.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Wasn't sure where to post this from The Times.
I guess here's as good a place as any.

Tottenham are great to watch – and to play against​

new

They are fearless and relentless but in all the gritty stuff they are lacking — and were nowhere near Arsenal. Is it in Postecoglou’s DNA to sacrifice the fun in the same way Mikel Arteta did?​

Tom Allnutt

Sunday April 28 2024, 9.00pm BST, The Times
There is so much to like about this Tottenham Hotspur team, the fearless approach, that sense of adventure and players that never know when they are beaten. The problem is that their opponents like them too, given Spurs are yet to learn how to defend.
When the final whistle blew on a nerve-shredding north London derby, as the music blasted loud to drown out the Arsenal cheers in the corner, Tottenham’s fans seemed unsure quite what to feel. There was relief at avoiding a thrashing and encouragement from the attempt at a comeback. Most of all it was deflation, that an Arsenal coronation had edged closer and fourth place a little further away.
• Havertz keeps Arsenal’s title race alive as Spurs fightback falls short
In all the pretty stuff here, Tottenham were more than a match for Arsenal. They had more of the ball and more of the chances. Even as they trailed 3-0 at half-time, the boos ringing out, Spurs led their opponents in the game’s other attacking metrics, including shots (8-4), possession (72-28), passes (344-147) and corners (7-4). In the space of nine months, nobody can deny that Ange Postecoglou has taken a dreary, defence-first team and created one that can dictate to the best in the league.
But in all the gritty stuff, Tottenham were nowhere near Arsenal. They conceded two goals from corners and a third from a counterattack, in which their midfield was so over-committed that Ben Davies ended up alone in his own penalty area against Bukayo Saka. A team’s durability can often be gauged by the faith of their fans. For most of the opening hour here, the vibe was not so much belief in a revival but fear of humiliation.

Davies ended up alone in his own penalty area against Saka, who made it 2-0
ANDREW ORCHARD/ALAMY
There are good reasons for that too, beyond the usual anxiety about Arsenal. Tottenham have collapsed against Chelsea, Brighton & Hove Albion, Fulham and Newcastle United this season. If those could be filed away as off-days, there is a broader frailty too. Tottenham have conceded two or more goals this season in games against Brentford (twice), Burnley, Chelsea, Arsenal (twice), Wolves (twice), Aston Villa, Manchester City, West Ham, Newcastle, Brighton, Manchester United, Fulham and Everton. That’s 13 out of 19 opponents in the league that they have needed to score at least three to beat. With five matches still to play.
Some of those problems look fixable, given time and work under the new coach. Tottenham’s miserable record at set-pieces will surely improve, given they are the fifth-worst in the league for goals conceded from set-pieces and only 11th-best for goals scored. Postecoglou has not warmed to the idea of hiring a set-piece coach and Guglielmo Vicario’s weakness under high balls may take longer to iron out. But there are simple and significant gains to be made. Arsenal’s goal difference from set-pieces is +16 this season. Tottenham’s is -3. A hefty 19-goal swing.

Tottenham opened the scoring for Arsenal with an own goal for the third successive North London derby
REX
Postecoglou also spoke afterwards about “the little details” and “the small things that get you from where we are to become a team that contends”. Antonio Conte repeatedly said Tottenham never learnt to be “killers”, and they remain a very nice team under Postecoglou. They let Ben White stand in front of Vicario at corners. They allowed Arsenal to break and send Saka clear, without halting the counterattack. Postecoglou wouldn’t elaborate but his assessment of Cristian Romero’s tenacious contribution was telling. “He was outstanding,” Postecoglou said. “I’ve just got to get some of what’s in him into some of the others.”
The broader question is whether any of this is really in Postecoglou’s DNA and whether the early version of pure “I'm a hipster ball” will tighten up in the same way Mikel Arteta turned a fragile and naive Arsenal side into the meanest defence in the league. Will the Postecoglou system evolve? Does it need to? Arteta was given time — Arsenal conceded 48 goals in two of Arteta’s first three seasons; Spurs are on 52 against — and signings. William Saliba, Gabriel and White were signed for more than £100million while Declan Rice came in for another £105million. But Arteta also traded some of the fun of last season for a more serious Arsenal, one that looks more like winning a league.
For Postecoglou, the instant upgrades are less obvious. None of Tottenham’s first-choice back five — Vicario, Pedro Porro, Romero, Micky van de Ven and Destiny Udogie – look like problems, with Van de Ven and Udogie among the most successful signings of the season. Rice may be the more prescient comparison. With Yves Bissouma struggling for form — and dropped from the starting line-up against Arsenal — Tottenham lack a defensive midfielder they can really rely on. And can Spurs be solid with James Maddison in their midfield three? Maddison is a rare creative talent but Brendan Rodgers and Gareth Southgate both decided he belongs further forward, for the overall balance of a team.
If Arsenal underlined their superiority, they are also a reminder for Tottenham of what trust and time can bring. In September last year, Postecoglou said at least two more transfer windows were needed to achieve the kind of squad he would be happy with. And for all the praise of Arteta’s work, Arsenal finished eighth in his first two seasons and fifth in his third. Postecoglou’s first, which came in the aftermath of selling Harry Kane, has Tottenham sitting fifth, with more goals, more points, and more thrills. The question now is whether they can get serious to get better.


















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This is so much more sensible and balanced than Barney Ronay’s short article that keeps being quoted here.

I really like Barney but he does love to have a dig at Spurs!

 

[SirHarryHotspur]

"Spurs would currently be eighth in the Premier League if their form outside of that supercharged start was rolled out across an entire season."
Barney Ronay

Has to be one of the most ridiculous pieces ever written , if you are only going to use certain periods of form to highlight then Arsenal would have been champions last season.

 

[Tucker]

The get what we deserve was in reference to the constant churn of managers and never winning any silverware.

Even I can see we are lacking in defending set pieces and I'm as far from a tactical guru as it's possible to get. The idea that all the analysts and coaches genuinely think we are doing fine at them because Ange said it's not a big issue in a presser is nonsense. (Not you but has been the general theme of this thread for the past 10+ pages) I am absolutely certain that what is said behind the scenes is very different to what is said in front of the cameras in this instance.

Genuinely never ceases to amaze me that people can’t work this out for themselves. People seemingly want to wallow in misery and look for reasons to slag off Ange. The belly aching about what he said in the press conference is off the charts.

I genuinely hate some of our fanbase. They’re simpletons.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

"Spurs would currently be eighth in the Premier League if their form outside of that supercharged start was rolled out across an entire season."
Barney Ronay

Has to be one of the ridiculous pieces ever written , if you are only going to use certain periods of form to highlight then Arsenal would have been champions last season.https://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?posts/8730226/react&reaction_id=1

Also take out our period when we had tons of injuries and suspensions and players at AFCON & ASIA CUP and average the pts back out then we’d be comfortably 4th and pretty close to Liverpool in 3rd so yea bit of a silly article really.

Ange needs time and he needs as significant backing in summer as possible.

We won’t sign all of these in one more window but imo if we are to be honest then as well as a few tactical tweaks from Ange, he also needs the below signings to get our squad in a place to try and challenge right at the top and in all competitions:

•ST
•WF x2
•CM
•CDM
•4th CB
•More suitable back-up RB & LB
•More suitable better back-up GK

Those 9 signings as a minimum across however many windows is what we need to become far more consistent and close the gap and have a robust squad of real quality in every position to challenge on all fronts.

Ange and Munn and Lange will be able to see this, it’s just a case of how many windows it’ll take and can we make a significant stab at it this summer so Ange can really kick on next season.

 

[DanielJohnCosta]

he gets another window before I turn toxic on him, until then I love you big Ange

 

[McFlash]

he gets another window before I turn toxic on him, until then I love you big Ange

Just the one window?
How very magnanimous of you.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Some have too much of a short memory.

Last April we were saying this team is poor, imbalanced and with a crap mentality.

Kane left and everyone said we'd be lucky to get top 6.

Then people said they expect to see a lot of bad results but as long as their was progress, they can deal with it.

Now think about the squad from last summer, we only added Maddison, Van de Ven, Johnson, Vicario and Solomon.

Maddison has gone right off it and should be our creative hub.

Van de Ven has been superb but missed 2.5 months

Vicario has been great bar the set piece issue.

Solomon has been injured

Johnson wasn't supposed to be a starter and was more for the immediate future.

So 3 excellent additions, 1 who is improving and 1 who has been injured.

If you again consider what we were saying last April, we haven't really made significant changes.

We moved players on but also not enough. Hojbjerg, Emerson,

We also lost Perisic, one player who would have really been superb in Ange's set up.

Sure, Sarr and Udogie have entered the fray and been excellent but they also have dropped off like players their age tend to do and they don't have the support around them.

We are still at least 6 players away and few out to make this Anges team

Last season Arteta had only Xhaka left from the team he inherited. That’s 3.5 yrs to clear it out. Xhaka now gone. They had to pay off 5 of them , Aubameyang, Ozil , Mustafi, Sokratis and that Serbian who looked like a bouncer. Took some big hits with that lot but it needed doing, No way can we have Ndombele, Reggie or Spence back next season . Bad influences. Big changes coming . Bite the bullet Daniel.

 

[Styopa]

That should apply to all managers.

Yes, within reason, of course.

But for sure Man C, Liverpool and now Arsenal have derived major benefits from committing to a manager for the mid to long-term.

And In Arsenal’s case, it wasn’t always obvious that Arteta was the right man.

Whereas you look at a club like Chelsea, who recently won a Champions League, or a club like ourselves who were recently in a Champions League final, or a even a club like Man U, and we have all spent the last few years flip flopping and sacking coaches left right and centre and the difference between us and top 3 is obvious.

 

[E17yid]

Just the one window?
How very magnanimous of you.

To be fair 3 windows including 2 summer ones is not bad. You’d expect to start seeing some results after that period and the squad should be well on its way to being shaped in his image.

Also, by Ange’s own admission, and as his CV shows, he doesn’t tend to stay longer than 3 years at a place so I don’t expect him , at the end of next season, to be saying it’s still early days in our progression mate.

 

[Gilzeanking]

Why yesterday did our midfield have the run of things but couldn't keep the ball for ten seconds against Fulham? Fixing defending corners is easy compared to that.

The answer is that vs Arse the players had N London derby intensity.

They don't play with this energy often

 

[For the love of Spurs]

To be fair 3 windows including 2 summer ones is not bad. You’d expect to start seeing some results after that period and the squad should be well on its way to being shaped in his image.

Also, by Ange’s own admission, and as his CV shows, he doesn’t tend to stay longer than 3 years at a place so I don’t expect him , at the end of next season, to be saying it’s still early days in our progression mate.

When Ange leaves though it has been for a better job. He isn’t getting a better job than Spurs like Real Madrid or Juventus if he doesn’t perform. That is the difference this time, he has to perform has the highest level of he wants to move on.

 

[E17yid]

When Ange leaves though it has been for a better job. He isn’t getting a better job than Spurs like Real Madrid or Juventus if he doesn’t perform. That is the difference this time, he has to perform has the highest level of he wants to move on.

Hasn’t he said on record that the reason for not staying in jobs very long is just down to preference. He likes coming into places that are underperforming and need a rebuild and when said rebuild is done he likes to look for the next one.

I may be misinterpreting what he’s said and it’s possible, given he’s now coaching at the highest level he’s ever coached at before, that he might change his attitude a bit and sees the value in building something with us over a longer period of time, but I don’t think his CV shows that nor his comments.

Also, I think there are other cubs around our level that could interest him.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I think his post game comments about set pieces a bit embarrasing to be honest.

With such a low scoring game as football, you just can't allow losing so many cheap goals. Teams throughout the league employ a set piece specialist coach (we've had one last season!) and it will quickly become a standard everywhere. Right now it's not about finding some marginal gains, just about cutting significant losses.

No amount of focusing on build up play and isolating wingers will help if we keep conceding goals from corners and free kicks.

Nah. What is embarrassing is the naive assertion that what is said in a post-match press conference is the same as what is being said in the dressing room and on the training pitch.

Do you really think a manager who has openly stated he wants us to be title challenger will just ignore an issue like this? Be honest.