Match Threads - what is it you want?

[soflapaul]

I agree someone's opinion is fine positive or negative. That's not all it is from certain posters now though. Knee jerk reactions have always been there, however there have been a number of posts lately expressing things like "player x should just fuck off and die" for instance, this is not OK.

I mean the knee jerk reactions are far worse than they've ever been before though. One good game and we are gunning for that top four slot. One defeat and all the players need sold and "Conte is clearly shit". Doesn't matter that balanced posters take the time to find stats explaining how long it took Klopp etc to produce what he's doing now and what their early form was like getting there. Noooo. We are far too impatient for that. We need to be winning every game now, because 4th is there for the taking...... Here's the thing, just because other teams aren't at their best, they still had a better starting point than we did. It's a process, and it'll take time. I told you all this when Conte came in and despite Conte saying it every week, some still think it should be happening now.

It's not just the match thread for me though it's deeper than that. Certain posters that are pretty much running an Enic hate campaign, posting the same shit in numerous threads over and over again. I mean it's monotonous to see it in the ENIC thread on repeat, but it's also the same shit in multiple other threads now, and certainly in the matchday threads whenever we lose. It's pretty much rabble rousing imo, trying to gain traction and support from those already in a negative frame of mind.

I'm sure the few posters I am talking about(and they very much know who they are) will tell you that Enic are the reason we are in this position so it's absolutely fair game for them to basically copy and paste their negativity towards them into the match threads, the where will we finish thread, the Antonio Conte thread, the FP thread, numerous player threads and the in and out wish list thread, etc etc. I don't agree with all they are blaming Enic for but some of it is very valid, it's just not for every thread, and their seems to be a couple more posters doing similar with every loss.

All in all I'm fine with the match thread knee jerkers, and the FFS posts, because that's football be it on here or on the terraces. The wishing players ill, and trying to turn it(and other threads) into an anti Enic/player xyz rally is why I'm out.

I know I've gone OT a bit there but it's all linked imo because once the game is over it all spills out into every other thread in Spurs chat.

You haven't gone far enough. Being a Spurs fan used to mean our fan based was different than most clubs.

 

[johnwhitesghost]

Police the thread for the standout offenders and ban them from the match day thread only.

It’s not really a case of making a subjective judgement, the posters concerned make it blatantly obvious.

if this isn’t possible or practical, either stop the match day threads or put up with it.

 

[moscone_bail_bonds]

Things certainly get toxic very quickly in the match day thread. How about a time limit the number of posts a user makes in the match day thread, say once only every two or three minutes? Might stop the waffle and trigger happy knee jerk reactions and save moderation time.

Also maybe ban certain words from being posted like Enic, Levy in the match day thread etc. No reason for those topics to be brought up during a match.

Edit: Sorry, I see the time limit idea was already suggested by Spurfan77

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I feel there needs to be a near zero tolerance to name calling towards other posters. Every match thread there is at least one person, if not more, calling another person an idiot or worse. Often worse. That just fuels the vitriol. I think most of us on here have made an overly exaggerated negative post in the match thread at one point or another primarily due to utter exasperation, i feel the match thread can almost be cathartic to some degree and often deosn't truly represent our true feelings, but obviously people do go overboard and these days people seem far to quick to anger. Whatever the reason, when that anger starts being directed at other posters thats where i'm out.

I would suggest some sort of slowdown or cool down period for negative posters where if they rack up a certain amount of ratings over a short period of time they can at first only make 1 comment an hour then get suspended from posting for 24 hours. Something along those lines.

 

[0-Tibsy-0]

If I'm enjoying a game (and not at the ground) then I barely use Spurs Community. If we are being shit then I pop on and let out my immediate frustration.

I expect there are a few like me - which means that the negative noise is amplified, even if its (as it often is) deserved.

I mean let's be honest we have had several years of utter exasperation at how awful things have been on and off the field. It's unsurprising that a - to quote AVB - a spiral of negativity has occurred.

 

[dontcallme]

There's very low tolerance in the ITK threads. No reason this can't be brought to the match threads.

 

[Hakkz]

A few times recently I've watched us play thinking "We aren't doing too badly" despite us being a goal down or whatever. Then I pop in here and apparently I was wrong because we are always complete trash and some players should never be allowed to set their foot on a football pitch again.

 

[jimbo]

Nothing much new to add, but I agree with previous posters that it seems to be two different questions.
1. What do you do about the toxicity - because the match thread is just the tip of the spear for that
2. What is the match thread for?

I don't go in the match thread much while the game is live, I use it more if I can't watch a game for some reason but that's mostly to see what the line-up is. After the event I read some of the discussion and occasionally drift back to when we scored to see the reaction.
For the most part it seems to be pages and pages of a cluster-spaff of reactive drivel interspersed with the occasional helpful insight as to what is actually happening. I tried to use the match thread to follow a game I couldn't watch once, never again. So what would actually be good/useful to have in there? I'd say:

• Line-ups
• Posts from people who are going to the match and want to meet for a pre-match beer (like the halcyon days of yore)
• Posts on what is actually happening in the actual match - especially the different perspectives you get from being at the ground or watching on TV
• Post-match interviews, comments, body language interpretation etc

I don't think the reactive 'that was shit', 'what are you doing player xyz', 'that's why my mum hates me' stuff does anything other than allow the poster to vent in a 'shouting at the wall' way - communication should be two-way and lately there's too much of the 'I'm going to say this because I need to say it' that falls under 'I have an opinion and by god you need to hear it' and not enough 'here's something interesting I thought about, what do you guys reckon?' kind of actual discussion.

For example, I go into the Antonio Conte thread because I hope I might find something that he's said, or some insight into his tactical approach, training, plans etc and have to wade through 150 posts of 'he's leaving', 'I know we said we'd back him but we won't back him', 'why doesn't he try 5-3-2?' which just doesn't really add anything and don't belong in there anyway (the first two should go in ENIC, the third in Formations).

I did wonder if the 'What's new' feature which is the only way I navigate the site has led to some of the post creep, because people don't immediately see the thread they should post in they just chuck it in the next nearest? Not sure what you can do about that though.

For those suggesting that it's simplest just to ignore things... The toxic negativity doesn't effect me on a personal level - it's just exhausting as fuck to read it over and over (and yeah, you don't know what the post is about until you read it). General negativity after a loss is normal enough, but it's worse than that these days despite the team being better. I've been using this site for decades now, and it has always been a place to come after a win to celebrate or after a defeat to commiserate and support each other in our collective suffering (ideally finding some reason to be cheerful/hopeful). So I do get why some people have left, and others are coming here less and less. But short of running some webinars on 'effective communication in the digital age' for the newer posters I don't know what you do to address it. Maybe have more mods, at different levels of permissions - like trusted posters or something? Maybe split over different sections/threads?

 

[King of the Lane]

While we are at it.....can we also ban people who use the phrases "Dr Tottenham" and "Spursy." Get in the bin.

 

[Cel]

I guess I need to get a better understanding of why that is then. Don’t get me wrong I’m not saying people should “man up” or any of that shit, but I really don’t understand why you would read something written by a complete stranger on the internet and get upset or effected by it.

I think adding a “toxic” rating is toxic in itself because some people may feel a shit tonne of people calling them toxic isn’t very nice either. The site has to be welcoming for everyone as much as it possibly can and an unpopular opinion being shat on with toxic ratings wouldn’t be good, just as people saying Winks die in a fire isn’t good either. The only balanced thing I can think of is maybe a NC for “not constructive” rating and then once it exceeds a certain number it’s flagged to moderators and they can decide if that person gets a ban from the next match thread? I don’t know, this is a tough issue to resolve really

Personally - It's not upsetting, it doesn't effect me, it's a use of time thing. At the point that I spend more time wading through non value-add, repetitive crap on a thread than reading it, I give up on a thread. Give up on too many threads, and I use the site less and less. Don't get me wrong, I know I'm hardly adding much and vary rarely post anything anyway, but I'd guess I'm not alone in that view.

 

[mightyspur]

I always wondered what it would be like if we had a positive only match thread and a negative thoughts match thread... lot more admin for you guys though.

I don't know if the forum would support it, but I quite like the idea of going all Supernanny on the posters that get an automatic time-out if their posts get reported, or x number of negative ratings, 10 mins, 45, or the entire match.

Increasing the time between when users can post could possibly work?

having a auto-hide type feature that picks up certain words, and spoilers the post so people have to click to view them. You could even apply that to specific posters in match threads if they are regularly reported, so they can still write in the thread and aren't banned, but their views are hidden unless someone really wants to view it

 

[archiewasking]

Really think people having a dig at fellow supporters is just not on and should attract a warning and maybe a ban. One day, weekend, week, eventually permanent. There is the report system, is that not fit for purpose?

If I can't watch the match, I like the match thread to follow the flow of the game. You know, "great ball Winksy" "Lucas get your head up" Sonny was free at the back stick!"

So. One match day thread titled, say" Game incidents thread" and another "Player performance thread."

One so those who can't watch get to enjoy it vicariously through others posts.

The performance thread for people to whinge and praise to their hearts content.

Thoughts??

 

[Geyzer Soze]

Anyone who wishes death upon a player/anyone should be banned from the site indefinitely.

That's just not acceptable

Except Jack Wilshere

 

[Tucker]

I think it’s unreasonable to expect the mods to be moderating while the game is going on. We are all Spurs fans and we all want to follow the game if possible.

Surely a lot of this has to come down to everyone trying not to be dicks.

When other games are going on, the premier league thread is a great place to hang out, but that might be because it’s much slower paced as not so many are posting in there.

 

[szechuan]

Long time lurker here, I’ve worked in forum moderation in some capacity across various industries for the past decade plus so I suppose I finally have something of value to post!

There’s no easy solution here but it’s worth pointing out that the atmosphere and vibe of forums tend to ebb and flow over time, often in sync with real world events. I’m sure the SC mods see this on a yearly cycle with the transfer windows. Like attracts like, and it’s not unusual for forums to get overrun by a negative mindset that then has to be policed out. Making an example (i.e. a complete and total ban) of the most notable contributors to this mindset usually does the trick, at least in my experience.

I have two moderation rules that I’ve applied to great effect over the years in these situations. They account for both negative and positive posting, which tends to diminish the accusations of the “you’re all happy clappers, I’m just being a realist” crowd (who almost all tend to cite “free speech” at times, blissfully unaware that they’re on a private forum with rules that dictate what you can and can’t say).

1. Posts must have value to them. They must make a point of some kind or contribute to the discussion.

This rule addresses kneejerk posts, the likes of which are currently clogging up the match thread. It means you get rid of all the “LEVY OUT” stuff when an opposition player dares to score against us, but it also means you lose the joyous celebratory exclamations too. Football is an emotionally charged sport so perhaps value being a prerequisite wouldn’t work as well on a footie forum.

These infractions are always appealed the same way: “my post does have value, you just can’t see it”. They might argue that while they posted “Doherty needs hanging”, that's clearly shorthand for “being a regular international for Ireland and a consistent threat for Wolves over multiple Premier League seasons, Doherty is clearly a good player however his performances for Spurs suggest he doesn’t have the consistency required if we want to be regulars in the Champions League”. They’ll argue it’s everyone else’s fault for not understanding the implied meaning and they’re all ENIC bootlickers anyway.

2. Off topic posting results in an infraction. This one has been a real game changer in my current role for the last couple of years.

Start talking about formations in a thread about transfer budgets? Infraction. Thumbing in your wonderfully original views on how ENIC = bad into a discussion on who our new striker should be? Infraction. Written a detailed analytical breakdown of Conte’s history and used AI projections of all his past results to see where we’ll be in 5 years, but excitedly posted it in the “Let’s laugh at Arsenal” thread? Sorry mate, infraction.

This could be seen as a rather extreme rule to impose, maybe it seems harsh to ban someone for talking about Winks’ aptitude for the 40,000th time in a thread about stadium rights (then again, maybe not…) but it is the single most effective antidote for threads going off topic and makes people think twice about what and where they’re posting.

I would love to see the unwarranted negativity and meltdown mindset diminished here. Every summer I think “I really need to donate to SC” and then a barrage of misanthropic anger bursts forth because Ali Gold said we might not be interested in that Ligue 1 right-back nobody had heard of until ITK said he was on a list with seven other names we’re monitoring. I just leave the site for a bit instead and I’m sure I’m not alone.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Football fans have largely been a pack of animals since the 70s. Not surprising that that behaviour spills into the football forums, now that online interaction is largely replacing IRL.

Hoolganism and loutish behaviour was addressed with policing, making grounds all seater, and promoting family friendly environments. In order to make the online equivalent similarly sanitised then you'll have to employ the same tactics.

 

[Beni]

Maybe only allow access to post in match threads for posters that have above/below x amount of points in positive/negative feedback?

Or , Have a rating to alert on posters being toxic. Get too many on one match day and they are banned for x amount of match threads or lose transfer rumour thread access.

For me, there needs to be a consequence to actions, so that it will make people think before they post rubbish.

 

[Toast]

Match thread is OK (I mean in principle, in reality its usually a cavalcade of idiocy), and we already have the report function for toxic posts, so perhaps we just need to use that more and mods can use their discretion when reviewing the reports to determine whether a temp ban is warranted?

2. Off topic posting results in an infraction. This one has been a real game changer in my current role for the last couple of years.

Start talking about formations in a thread about transfer budgets? Infraction. Thumbing in your wonderfully original views on how ENIC = bad into a discussion on who our new striker should be? Infraction. Written a detailed analytical breakdown of Conte’s history and used AI projections of all his past results to see where we’ll be in 5 years, but excitedly posted it in the “Let’s laugh at Arsenal” thread? Sorry mate, infraction.

This could be seen as a rather extreme rule to impose, maybe it seems harsh to ban someone for talking about Winks’ aptitude for the 40,000th time in a thread about stadium rights (then again, maybe not…) but it is the single most effective antidote for threads going off topic and makes people think twice about what and where they’re posting.

I would love to see the unwarranted negativity and meltdown mindset diminished here. Every summer I think “I really need to donate to SC” and then a barrage of misanthropic anger bursts forth because Ali Gold said we might not be interested in that Ligue 1 right-back nobody had heard of until ITK said he was on a list with seven other names we’re monitoring. I just leave the site for a bit instead and I’m sure I’m not alone.

This would be a game changer for the site I think. The spam problem goes beyond the matchday thread, and as someone else said, it just makes every thread a chore to read, which makes it less likely that I'll read it.

 

[Spursmad321]

So, 'opinions' like

Winks should die in a fire, Doherty is a cancer, this or that player is a **** and should fuck off........

We've had that kind of thing a number of times lately. Where do you stand on that.

Again, this isn't so much about positivity v negativity and more about how that's expressed. I think

In my opinion anyone posting crap like that should be instantly ban.

 

[Styopa]

I think something like a toxic rating button, whilst a good idea in theory, could itself become toxic if and when posters start misusing it. I guess you could keep the rating hidden from public view (so a person can give a toxic rating to a post but no one, including the person who made the offending post can see that rating on the post) but to be honest I could still see it being misused. Like it’s not that difficult to imagine a post defending winks receiving a load of “toxic” ratings.

I think the suggestion of @szechuan above that posts have value to them is a good place to start. So posts like “Winks is so shit” or “I don’t want Doherty anywhere near my club” have no value whereas “poor ball by Winks, Son was on there” or “I’m surprised Doherty is in the team given how poor he was last week” do have value.

I also think with regards to the match thread we should follow a similarly hard rule to those which have been employed in Itk threads where people posting outside the rules of the threads (such as posts with no value) or off topic (e.g not directly related to the match) are banned from posting in or accessing that thread. This doesn’t need to be done during the match itself. Mods can go back and ban the offending posters retrospectively.

I think the kind of thing we should be aiming for is a Spurs fans version of the kind of live game blog you get on lots of media sites these days like e.g the Guardian (the actual blog not the comments) but with more fan interaction. Somewhere people can follow the game in real time if they need to but also (like mates down the pub or wherever) comment and discuss the action in real time.

Having said all that, I never use match threads really. But maybe I would if they had more value to them.