Our players lack desire

[Gilzeanking]

I really don’t think that would make much of a difference.

Do you genuinely think that I am suggesting this as a complete solution to our issues ?

 

[onthetwo]

Prime example United's win in 1999 at the Nou Camp. Where was their leader of men...suspended. Yet the mentality of that club to never give up until the last minute was engrained.

It's like Liverpool reaching and Winning European finals during periods of having bang average teams. There is a mentality in that club of winning. Does it always happen of course not but the mentality of our club is fucking shite which was summed up in the CL final. We were just grateful to be there.

Keane AND Scholes both missed the game IIRC so they did it without their leader And first choice CM pairing!

 

[mos5679]

We need to lose the following:
Doherty £10m
Dier £20m
Sanchez £25m
Hugo £7m
Sissoko £10m
Winks £20m
Bergwin £20m
Moura £15m
£127


Buy:
Vestergaard £15m
Varane £45m
Hakimi £35m
Pope £20m
Sabitzer £30m
Ings £25m
£160m

Spend £33m and that is a very decent team. Get rid of Jose and bring in Nagelsmann or Rodgers

 

[onthetwo]

This might warrant a different thread and conversation but here I am...

Much of the first 11 yesterday has been at the club for years. They contributed to the sacking of Poch and very likely will bring Mourinho's reign to an end at some point. I know most of us wouldn't put this 11 down as our best team, but it's pretty staggering that we are fielding the same team over so many seasons in a pretty large volume of games.

If we are going to interrogate our playing staff, this is where to start.

But this is where I'll go a bit off-topic. You have to then bring into question our transfer committee. If the players lack desire, then surely it comes down to bad player recruitment and those who make the transfer decisions need to come under scrutiny.

This is where my argument turns to the wider club culture and atmosphere debate.

I have no doubt that Levy wants the best for the club and no one can criticise his off the field achievements.

BUT he is the man who hires the manager, puts together the executive team and transfer committee. He seems to live amongst the players and staff day to today if the Amazon documentary is of true colour and ultimately all of what is happening/has happened is on his watch.

In my view, he needs to address matters at the very top before making a decision on Mourhino and a possible player clear out, else we're in danger of making the same mistakes and setting off a new cycle of disappointment.

Happy to be challenged on my thinking

I agree and don’t think there’s any more to it than the following.
1) Poch told him to upgrade the squad at the same time as we were building the new ground but we wouldn’t/couldnt/didnt do it;
2) By the time Levy listened (after the CL run) it was too late i.e the rot had set into the players;
3) BEFORE finally biting the bullet on the squad upgrade he preferred to take a gamble on the cheaper option which was to try the Mourinho ´band aid´

CONCLUSION the problem identinfied by Poch is still there so the deck-chair rearranging of the squad needs to stop now BUT without the CL money id doubt it happens.
I’m even more depressed now!!

 

[dontcallme]

Do you genuinely think that I am suggesting this as a complete solution to our issues ?

No but I think it would make such a little difference that it’s not really worth mentioning.

 

[muppetman]

This might warrant a different thread and conversation but here I am...

Much of the first 11 yesterday has been at the club for years. They contributed to the sacking of Poch and very likely will bring Mourinho's reign to an end at some point. I know most of us wouldn't put this 11 down as our best team, but it's pretty staggering that we are fielding the same team over so many seasons in a pretty large volume of games.

If we are going to interrogate our playing staff, this is where to start.

But this is where I'll go a bit off-topic. You have to then bring into question our transfer committee. If the players lack desire, then surely it comes down to bad player recruitment and those who make the transfer decisions need to come under scrutiny.

This is where my argument turns to the wider club culture and atmosphere debate.

I have no doubt that Levy wants the best for the club and no one can criticise his off the field achievements.

BUT he is the man who hires the manager, puts together the executive team and transfer committee. He seems to live amongst the players and staff day to today if the Amazon documentary is of true colour and ultimately all of what is happening/has happened is on his watch.

In my view, he needs to address matters at the very top before making a decision on Mourhino and a possible player clear out, else we're in danger of making the same mistakes and setting off a new cycle of disappointment.

Happy to be challenged on my thinking

I think it's clear that Levy took his eye off the ball with the stadium build. For whatever reason we decided not to freshen up the squad even though it was clear we needed to. Levy then took another punt that the squad WAS good enough and that a proven winner(TM) in Jose could take that extra step.

I also think Levy is a smart cookie and no doubt knows all this - sometimes you take a punt and it doesn't work - To Dare is To Do and all that. Ultimately Levy answers to himself and maybe Joe Lewis so he won't be talking to the press about any of this I'd imagine. It will however, be interesting to see if we revisit the DoF role again if Jose does get the push.

 

[Gilzeanking]

No but I think it would make such a little difference that it’s not really worth mentioning.

Ah OK ,so you think we are effectively captained then .We disagree.

 

[coopsy13]

We need to lose the following:
Doherty £10m
Dier £20m
Sanchez £25m
Hugo £7m
Sissoko £10m
Winks £20m
Bergwin £20m
Moura £15m
£127


Buy:
Vestergaard £15m
Varane £45m
Hakimi £35m
Pope £20m
Sabitzer £30m
Ings £25m
£160m

Spend £33m and that is a very decent team. Get rid of Jose and bring in Nagelsmann or Rodgers

Its a shame this isn't Football Manager

 

[dontcallme]

Ah OK ,so you think we are effectively captained then .We disagree.

Sure, no problem with a disagreement.

As far as I am concerned whether we have Kane, Holjbjerg or Lloris as captain there would be no difference.

 

[VegasII]

We need to lose the following:
Doherty £10m
Dier £20m
Sanchez £25m
Hugo £7m
Sissoko £10m
Winks £20m
Bergwin £20m
Moura £15m
£127


Buy:
Vestergaard £15m
Varane £45m
Hakimi £35m
Pope £20m
Sabitzer £30m
Ings £25m
£160m

Spend £33m and that is a very decent team. Get rid of Jose and bring in Nagelsmann or Rodgers

Lol, we haven’t got a pot to piss in. It’ll be sell and replace with the youth team.

 

[VegasII]

Its a shame this isn't Football Manager

We'd probably still bugger it up on that!

 

[dontcallme]

Lol, we haven’t got a pot to piss in. It’ll be sell and replace with the youth team.

Disagree. If you look at our spending over the last 3 windows, previous to this January, we have clearly spent. In fact, bigger than ever before and not relying on sales.

 

[tottenhamlad]

We are at a cross roads, you either totally back Jose and let him clear out all the poison and give him a lot of money to rebuild.

Or the cheap option, sack him and see if another manager can get a tune out of them.

Poch couldn't anymore.
Jose can't now.

Will anyone else manage it? I am not so sure anymore.

The answer was to give Poch the money to rebuild but that is gone now.

 

[dontcallme]

We are at a cross roads, you either totally back Jose and let him clear out all the poison and give him a lot of money to rebuild.

Or the cheap option, sack him and see if another manager can get a tune out of them.

Poch couldn't anymore.
Jose can't now.

Will anyone else manage it? I am not so sure anymore.

The answer was to give Poch the money to rebuild but that is gone now.

The challenge with Poch seemed to be that he wanted a number 1 target or nothing at all. Nice in theory but no team always gets their number 1 target.

Poch was seen as a head coach by the board but he seemed to intimate a few times that he saw himself more of a DOF. I wonder if this is because he saw our signings were often poor and he wanted to concentrate more on this side as it was what the club was lacking.

We are spending now. Our last 3-4 windows have seen a lot of money spent.

Our challenge is finding buyers for average players on £80k+ and then buying the right characters to get us playing again.

 

[rossdapep]

This might warrant a different thread and conversation but here I am...

Much of the first 11 yesterday has been at the club for years. They contributed to the sacking of Poch and very likely will bring Mourinho's reign to an end at some point. I know most of us wouldn't put this 11 down as our best team, but it's pretty staggering that we are fielding the same team over so many seasons in a pretty large volume of games.

If we are going to interrogate our playing staff, this is where to start.

But this is where I'll go a bit off-topic. You have to then bring into question our transfer committee. If the players lack desire, then surely it comes down to bad player recruitment and those who make the transfer decisions need to come under scrutiny.

This is where my argument turns to the wider club culture and atmosphere debate.

I have no doubt that Levy wants the best for the club and no one can criticise his off the field achievements.

BUT he is the man who hires the manager, puts together the executive team and transfer committee. He seems to live amongst the players and staff day to today if the Amazon documentary is of true colour and ultimately all of what is happening/has happened is on his watch.

In my view, he needs to address matters at the very top before making a decision on Mourhino and a possible player clear out, else we're in danger of making the same mistakes and setting off a new cycle of disappointment.

Happy to be challenged on my thinking

I was speaking to a sporting director a while back and he told me that as an ex player, he would often sit and eat with players and have a very open friendly relationship with them. But he soon realised he made a mistake because certain players were not listening to him when he had to get serious.

He made it sure that he ate at a different time to the players and his office area became off limits for players - they have to go to the coach first. He would then limit the time of seeing players to only observing training and adding comments to keep them motivated, as well as resolving issues.

I don't know how Levy behaves with players and if players become friendly with him but from AON it's highly likely that they strike up enough conversation for the players to get comfortable with him.

I feel that there's no one to fear within the club. Danny Rose swanning around with an attitude, asking Levy what's going on with transfers whilst he's sat eating his breakfast.

Imagine doing that in your line of work.

Not saying the players need to live in fear but it's clear some have become comfortable with their environment and are probably not comcerned with pissing off the boss.

 

[onthetwo]

We are at a cross roads, you either totally back Jose and let him clear out all the poison and give him a lot of money to rebuild.

Or the cheap option, sack him and see if another manager can get a tune out of them.

Poch couldn't anymore.
Jose can't now.

Will anyone else manage it? I am not so sure anymore.

The answer was to give Poch the money to rebuild but that is gone now.

For me, The other difference between the last two managers was the ability of Poch to develop younger players (Dele, Winks, Kane etc).
He probably hasnt had enough time in his defence but im struggling to think of a single player, young or older in the first team squad whose game looks to have developed positively since Jose started working with them. Lucas (at a stretch?) That should tell Levy all he needs to know re trusting Jose to build a wining team under the financial circumstances.

 

[shelfboy68]

I still laugh at Arsenal. They're welcome to the FA Cup. Top 4 is where it's at. Every Arsenal fan I know would give up their last 3 FA cups to be back in the CL. I wouldn't change our last 10 years for theirs despite them winning 2 FA Cups. They're in a terrible mess financially because of paying CL wages whilst being out of it despite winning 'trophies'.

Top 4 is a trophy. It's hard to accept I know. But it is. Top 4 is worth more than any FA or LC trophy. It's where all the money is, where the best teams and players are or want to be. We're moving ever closer to a European league. I hate the idea myself but it's where the future of football is moving. Daniel Levy/ the board are not interested in FA Cups. They want top 4, more TV revenue, more club exposure, more money for naming rights.

What is really worrying is the fact we've been in the CL for a few years now and actually got to a final and the decline from there is frightening. We should have grown so much from there. Those 2 transfer windows where we didn't buy anyone is the result of where we are now. The implication of no CL football is dire.

If we win the FA cup and LC next season and finish outside the top 4, Harry Kane won't stay. He'll go where there's CL football. The implications of being without CL football is huge. The longer we're out of it, the harder it will be to get back in. Winning an FA cup isn't going to help at all. Just ask Arsenal fans.

I'm not sure Kane will stick around mate after this season after all what is the club going to achieve it's a total mess.
There are many people responsible for this some won't be here much longer others will still be here.

 

[hellava_tough]

I was speaking to a sporting director a while back and he told me that as an ex player, he would often sit and eat with players and have a very open friendly relationship with them. But he soon realised he made a mistake because certain players were not listening to him when he had to get serious.

He made it sure that he ate at a different time to the players and his office area became off limits for players - they have to go to the coach first. He would then limit the time of seeing players to only observing training and adding comments to keep them motivated, as well as resolving issues.

I don't know how Levy behaves with players and if players become friendly with him but from AON it's highly likely that they strike up enough conversation for the players to get comfortable with him.

I feel that there's no one to fear within the club. Danny Rose swanning around with an attitude, asking Levy what's going on with transfers whilst he's sat eating his breakfast.

Imagine doing that in your line of work.

Not saying the players need to live in fear but it's clear some have become comfortable with their environment and are probably not comcerned with pissing off the boss.

I was going to post something similar about Levy a few weeks back, but never got around to it.

Thanks for doing so.

I don't know how representative AON was regarding day to day life at Spurs, but I really didn't feel comfortable with Levy eating in the same canteen as the players.

 

[Metalhead]

We need to lose the following:
Doherty £10m
Dier £20m
Sanchez £25m
Hugo £7m
Sissoko £10m
Winks £20m
Bergwin £20m
Moura £15m
£127


Buy:
Vestergaard £15m
Varane £45m
Hakimi £35m
Pope £20m
Sabitzer £30m
Ings £25m
£160m

Spend £33m and that is a very decent team. Get rid of Jose and bring in Nagelsmann or Rodgers

Whilst I think that might be a little ambitious, I don't think that many will argue with most of the players on the list.

 

[mos5679]

Its a shame this isn't Football Manager

no you’re exactly right, but essentially that’s what our team needs or something along those lines. A couple people rated this as optimistic and I completely agree. Now if we had forward thinking ownership, then this wouldn’t be a huge task