Player Watch: Erik Lamela

[lincspurs]

7 years of running around abit ok! Attacking midfielder with hardly any end product lol

And when he does run he runs so awkwardly, looks like he’s in pain, which considering his injury record, he may be. Certainly agree with the no end product bit.
Noticed a few times on Thursday that he actually doesn’t “run around a lot” as a number of times he was stood or casually walking back when they were attacking, mind you that’s exactly what Lucas had done earlier in the match!

 

[spursville]

260 pages. Does that trigger a sell on clause? Can we get rid now please?

 

[double0]

We need to upgrade across the squad. Bottom line.

 

[Cochise]

I think when we need an AM who is going to spend a lot of time doing defensive work, Lamela is our man. However, for every good display that puts him back in our good books we also get display's like that against Man City.

 

[Flashp]

260 pages. Does that trigger a sell on clause? Can we get rid now please?

That's extremely harsh on a player that has always looked like he cared, no matter the state of the club.

Played through injury and put in some fine displays along the way, especially against the Arse. I'm certain he really loves the club.

 

[EQP]

I always love these seasonal Lamela resurgences. He puts in a couple of high energy performances, galvanizes us to pick up some wins and all is well in the world. Some quiet suggestions that he might be somewhat over his terrible run of injuries are shared. Then disaster strikes. Another injury. Timeframe to recovery unknown. Questions of whether we can afford to keep him on the roster, given his frequent injuries are asked. Arguments are made that he's the only one in our squad who does what he does and thus, should be kept on. Opposing arguments point to his lack of end product and inability to release the ball with urgency. A random image of Lamela, with his piercing eyes, staring right at us is posted. We give it funny ratings, while some us are genuinely scared. An over the top comment of how useless Lamela is gets posted and we all give it a flurry of disagrees, doh's and a dash of spam ratings. The thread then goes quiet. Three months down the line we get a glimpse of Lamela training by himself. Our eyes water a bit and we think back to when he stepped on Fabregas's hand or when he successfully antagonized Wilshere. Little moments that speak to essence of Coco. We then wonder what could've been. He then gets named to the starting line-up for a cup game. Rinse. Repeat.

 

[fortworthspur]

been one of our better players the last few games.

 

[coy-spurs1882]

been one of our better players the last few games.

then he will soon be injured for another 3 months...

 

[Neon_Knight_]

7 years of running around abit ok! Attacking midfielder with hardly any end product lol

"Hardly any end product", yet the stats confirm that he's one of our most productive players. This has already been covered so many times in this 260 page thread that your unfounded comment is just lazy.

 

[Thewobbler]

Hes about to turn 29. We should really be trying to move him on now.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

"Hardly any end product", yet the stats confirm that he's one of our most productive players. This has already been covered so many times in this 260 page thread that your unfounded comment is just lazy.

Also been shown that his per 90 output in the Prem is in fact not even close to being among our most productive players of the last 5 years (Dele, Son, Eriksen)...he doesn't even beat out Chadli in that regard. Right around the same g/a per 90 as Lucas, Bergwijn, etc.

 

[fortworthspur]

Hes about to turn 29. We should really be trying to move him on now.

he'll have a year left on his contract and an injury riddled history. Dont think he'll fetch much of a fee.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Also been shown that his per 90 output in the Prem is in fact not even close to being among our most productive players of the last 5 years (Dele, Son, Eriksen)...he doesn't even beat out Chadli in that regard. Right around the same g/a per 90 as Lucas, Bergwijn, etc.

For some strange reason I feel like I'm going to be repeating myself, but...

Dele, Son and Moura have played a significant number games as striker / second striker, so if their ability is equal to Lamela's (rather than superior) they would be expected to have higher output.
Dele's most productive season was spent with him essentially playing as the second striker (old-school no.10) in a 4-4-2. His productivity has been significantly reduced since he started playing deeper to getting more involved with defending and build-up play (which Lamela consistently does a lot of).
Son has played many games as our main striker when Kane has been injured, and has put together a couple of very impressive scoring runs during those spells. This season, he is playing higher and drifting inside a lot (i.e. playing just off Kane), while the player on the opposite flank (where Lamela plays) stays wider and is required to focus more on helping the team out defensively - this comparison is no more relevant than comparing the goals/assist output of a CM to a CAM, a CDM to a CM, or a FB to a WB.

Bergwijn hasn't played enough games for us to give a meaningful picture of his output. Two half-seasons and often not selected during that time. It's such a small data sample that every time he gets a goal or assist his goal/assist rate significantly improves, but then drops significantly again after 2 or 3 games without a goal or assist.
Also, although he has (rightly) been criticised for being wasteful in-front of goal, his rate of assists is comparatively respectable.

Chadli actually had very good stats for us. Considering the low fee we paid and the lack of recognition he got, he was clearly underrated. 41 goals and assists in a three-year spell, during which he was injured at least 20% of the time and was at times only used as a bit-part squad player.

"in fact not even close to being among our most productive players of the last 5 years (Dele, Son, Eriksen)...he doesn't even beat out Chadli in that regard"
In the last 5 years, who has been more productive than Lamela, other than Kane, Eriksen, Son and Dele? I believe Lamela's productivity has consistently justified his place in the team/squad, while numerous less-productive players have come and gone.
I am only going to entertain discussion about overall productivity, not cherry-picked stats from a single competition. As we've previously discussed, I could equally make a case that Lamela has been more productive than Eriksen in cup competitions, but that wouldn't give a full and accurate comparison either.
I'm not sure why you are mentioning Chadli in a sentence about player productivity of the last 5 years. Chadli was sold 4.5 years ago and was a rotation player during his last season - started every PL game for the first month of the season, then was dropped from the starting XI (before getting injured, not because of injury) and was sold at the end of the season.
In a team of 11 players, they can't all be in the top 3 or 4 for goal and assist output. Does that mean all but the 3 or 4 players with the highest goal and assist output are surplus to requirements, even though others in the team are contributing in other ways to facilitate the offensive play of the most productive players?

 

[McFlash]

I'd be quite happy for him to see out his career with us. Yes, there will always be a 'what might have been if not for injuries' but he loves the club and always gives his all, whether as a starter or off the bench.
His passion is second to none and he's clearly a talented player, plus there are others that I'd get rid of before him.

 

[fortworthspur]

I'd be quite happy for him to see out his career with us. Yes, there will always be a 'what might have been if not for injuries' but he loves the club and always gives his all, whether as a starter or off the bench.
His passion is second to none and he's clearly a talented player, plus there are others that I'd get rid of before him.

Im not sure he'll be offered a new contract but have no problem with him seeing the current one out. Whether he wants to retire at 30 is up to him.

 

[ralvy]

I think when we need an AM who is going to spend a lot of time doing defensive work, Lamela is our man. However, for every good display that puts him back in our good books we also get display's like that against Man City.

I think that "display against Man city" was more a product of our whole set up against them than anything else, though (well, combined with us being very low on confidence and them sadly being fully on league champions mode). That's also why the likes of Kane, Son and Ndombele failed to do anything that day too.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

For some strange reason I feel like I'm going to be repeating myself, but...

Dele, Son and Moura have played a significant number games as striker / second striker, so if their ability is equal to Lamela's (rather than superior) they would be expected to have higher output.
Dele's most productive season was spent with him essentially playing as the second striker (old-school no.10) in a 4-4-2. His productivity has been significantly reduced since he started playing deeper to getting more involved with defending and build-up play (which Lamela consistently does a lot of).
Son has played many games as our main striker when Kane has been injured, and has put together a couple of very impressive scoring runs during those spells. This season, he is playing higher and drifting inside a lot (i.e. playing just off Kane), while the player on the opposite flank (where Lamela plays) stays wider and is required to focus more on helping the team out defensively - this comparison is no more relevant than comparing the goals/assist output of a CM to a CAM, a CDM to a CM, or a FB to a WB.

Bergwijn hasn't played enough games for us to give a meaningful picture of his output. Two half-seasons and often not selected during that time. It's such a small data sample that every time he gets a goal or assist his goal/assist rate significantly improves, but then drops significantly again after 2 or 3 games without a goal or assist.
Also, although he has (rightly) been criticised for being wasteful in-front of goal, his rate of assists is comparatively respectable.

Chadli actually had very good stats for us. Considering the low fee we paid and the lack of recognition he got, he was clearly underrated. 41 goals and assists in a three-year spell, during which he was injured at least 20% of the time and was at times only used as a bit-part squad player.

"in fact not even close to being among our most productive players of the last 5 years (Dele, Son, Eriksen)...he doesn't even beat out Chadli in that regard"
In the last 5 years, who has been more productive than Lamela, other than Kane, Eriksen, Son and Dele? I believe Lamela's productivity has consistently justified his place in the team/squad, while numerous less-productive players have come and gone.
I am only going to entertain discussion about overall productivity, not cherry-picked stats from a single competition. As we've previously discussed, I could equally make a case that Lamela has been more productive than Eriksen in cup competitions, but that wouldn't give a full and accurate comparison either.
I'm not sure why you are mentioning Chadli in a sentence about player productivity of the last 5 years. Chadli was sold 4.5 years ago and was a rotation player during his last season - started every PL game for the first month of the season, then was dropped from the starting XI (before getting injured, not because of injury) and was sold at the end of the season.
In a team of 11 players, they can't all be in the top 3 or 4 for goal and assist output. Does that mean all but the 3 or 4 players with the highest goal and assist output are surplus to requirements, even though others in the team are contributing in other ways to facilitate the offensive play of the most productive players?

I'm not repeating the debate we had however many pages back.

I was only addressing the part where you said "the stats confirm that he's one of our most productive players"...that's a rather bizarre view of stats considering in his Spurs career it takes him two times as many minutes to score or assist in the Prem as it takes/took our ACTUAL most productive players - Dele, Kane, Son, Eriksen.

The Chadli part is included because many thought he wasn't good enough and yet he's far closer to the 4 mentioned above than any of Lucas, Lamela, Bergwijn, Nkoudou, Njie, whatever other options we've tried to have nail down starting winger spots. I don't know if it's because of the comparative lack of perceived work ethic (I think people thought Chadli was lazy and Lamela is a hard worker) and that impacts things, but if he is not even that close to Chadli in terms of output then he's miles off being one of our most productive players.

Our most productive players are so productive because the others aren't good enough. In teams where the whole front line is good there is more of a distribution of wealth. No one has stepped into the Eriksen/Dele void this season and that's why instead of our wingers pitching in with goals and assists to make up for it, it's just Son/Kane having even more elite years. That's down to our other options not being good enough, and at this point in time I think our best bet is Gareth magically finding some form. Look at what happened to Villa once they surrounded Grealish with some decent players like Watkins and Traore.

Lamela's faults are not faults that magically go away at 30 years old. He has been injury prone his whole career, and while his infectious pressing energy can be very useful at times, on the ball he just holds on and delays the pass/end product far too long far too often. He'd be an amazing player if players got one or two more touches than they do every time they're on the ball in the Prem. But that's just not how it works.

He has a place in this current squad and will get his minutes, but our best chance of improving these pitiful attacking displays are for Jose to swallow his pride and play Dele, and for Bale to hopefully make a 2nd half of season impact. And then in summer this position is probably area #2 to address behind the CB situation.

 

[GutBucket]

2 years ago he started with 6 goals and 3 assists in 13 games, it was massive in the end for CL, those are the stats he ended up with in 33 matches though. Great player who loves this club more than some academy players and hates rivals more than anyone. He is just always injured. Very hard to sell too since he loves the club, has decent wages and concerning injury record. I can see club like Villarreal taking him when his contract runs out.

 

[dudu]

I'm not repeating the debate we had however many pages back.

I was only addressing the part where you said "the stats confirm that he's one of our most productive players"...that's a rather bizarre view of stats considering in his Spurs career it takes him two times as many minutes to score or assist in the Prem as it takes/took our ACTUAL most productive players - Dele, Kane, Son, Eriksen.

The Chadli part is included because many thought he wasn't good enough and yet he's far closer to the 4 mentioned above than any of Lucas, Lamela, Bergwijn, Nkoudou, Njie, whatever other options we've tried to have nail down starting winger spots. I don't know if it's because of the comparative lack of perceived work ethic (I think people thought Chadli was lazy and Lamela is a hard worker) and that impacts things, but if he is not even that close to Chadli in terms of output then he's miles off being one of our most productive players.

Our most productive players are so productive because the others aren't good enough. In teams where the whole front line is good there is more of a distribution of wealth. No one has stepped into the Eriksen/Dele void this season and that's why instead of our wingers pitching in with goals and assists to make up for it, it's just Son/Kane having even more elite years. That's down to our other options not being good enough, and at this point in time I think our best bet is Gareth magically finding some form. Look at what happened to Villa once they surrounded Grealish with some decent players like Watkins and Traore.

Lamela's faults are not faults that magically go away at 30 years old. He has been injury prone his whole career, and while his infectious pressing energy can be very useful at times, on the ball he just holds on and delays the pass/end product far too long far too often. He'd be an amazing player if players got one or two more touches than they do every time they're on the ball in the Prem. But that's just not how it works.

He has a place in this current squad and will get his minutes, but our best chance of improving these pitiful attacking displays are for Jose to swallow his pride and play Dele, and for Bale to hopefully make a 2nd half of season impact. And then in summer this position is probably area #2 to address behind the CB situation.

I agree with most of what you say.

The love I see for his effort and energy is rarely given to Moura let's say, despite Moura averaging (slightly) more tackles, attempted tackles per 90 mins last season than Lamela.

Moura just doesn't go around shit housing, which I definitely give credit to Lamela for doing but let's not kid ourselves. Both players should be doing more that what they do going forward and both have tendencies to make poor decisions on the ball that result in a turnover of possession.

Some people just have favourite players, which is fine, I think Lamela is a useful player but we should be aiming for better.

 

[Flobadob]

Maybe I’m too much of an optimist but when I see Lamela get fit and back to form I start to hope he can maintain it rather than think about when we will sell him.

Fit and in form he’s quality and I know it’s a big if but if he has an uninterrupted season for us again he’ll show how important he can be. I mean he already does in my opinion, when he goes off we lose intensity noticeably and since he’s come back from injury he’s made our pressing and ball retention so much better. The optimist in me will always say he’s absolutely worth keeping as fit he’s absolute quality and he loves the club