Player Watch Player Watch: Micky van de Ven

[Pochemon94]

Even Lenglet on loan would have done.

I agree, but also at the time, people would've gone ballistic about bringing in Lenglet, even as a 3rd choice, people were losing their mind when we were linked to him again.

 

[mil1lion]

There's no denying we got a lot right.

But on this position it was clear at the time that we massively dropped the ball.

Ange even went as far as to state publicly that we needed another CB.

That was BEFORE we sold Sanchez.

I can accept that a starting quality LWF or CF could take several windows until the right player becomes available.

But this role wasn't even that difficult or expensive to solve for a club our size.

Even Lenglet on loan would have done.

If we'd gotten away with it and avoided suspension and injury - it still would have been bad planning.

Because hoping to get away with it isn't a viable plan. Certainly not for an elite club.

I agree on that apart from Lenglet who would be no better than Dier.

 

[Joe Bjorn Hotspur]

Gutted that VDV is out just when he was forming that solid partnership with Romero. However, I have a good feeling with Ange bringing through youngsters like Phillips as you can tell he will trust the likes of him to step up.

Feel nervous not having VDV in there but with Ange and the freedom he’s given the players, unlike previous managers, I feel that youngsters will adapt so well. Fingers crossed. In the past players like King and Kane were thrown in: the mentality is key throughout and under Ange the no fear approach is so refreshing.

 

[Real_madyidd]

Even Lenglet on loan would have done.

No.

 

[ukdy]

Wow... where to start.....

I admire your optimism, but better planning really should have avoided this situation.

But what if this WAS the plan?! It's just unfortunate and unpredictable.

We went from fans demanding (unrealistically) VDV + Tapsoba. To VDV and Davies, Dier, or Hojberg can probably do a job in a pinch.

We can want Laporte and Cancelo at the back, but we don't know the club, vision, plan or available funds. Plus you can't replace a whole squad in 1 window.

The likelihood that one of Romero or VDV would miss games was high.

Likely unless lucky with injuries etc, but not high, and unlikely both for a long period. That's small percentage odds there.

Getting a 3rd choice CB was always said to be the plan - until we couldn't shift enough deadwood for the beancounters to be happy, and we aborted the plan on deadline day just as we did midway through the previous summer.

Sanchez needed to go which is why having him not upgraded after the deadline was still an undesirable outcome.

We don't know the moves the club was having to make without the right persons in place to make it, Munn, Paratici, Gabbanini, Lange, Lange's mate...

Surely weakening our sub-optimal 3rd choice CB when we couldn't replace for half the season made a bad situation even worse.

Either we could have sold Sanchez for less before the deadline, or in January once we'd baulked at doing the necessary business.

What if Sanchez was also the one pushing for a move and the club acquiesced?

We're not talking about a £50m player - it's a routine £10-20m squad maintenance signing.

More money may well be available for who we need in Jan as some players we're interesting will have short contracts left and selling clubs won't want to lose them for no money. One would hope.

Again - total madness and a self inflicted wound that will cost us points.

It is self-inflicted, but it's not reckless, it was calculated and the club played the odds. & it's still not known how badly it'll impact results.

In a brighter note good luck to Phillips if he gets the nod. Huge talent for the future, even if 18 is very young for the PL in this (or any) era.

Agree.

 

[McFlash]

I don't think you can say it's unlucky when everyone had identified it as the biggest risk coming out of the summer. We should have signed another CB during the transfer window -- it was obviously part of the plan and we simply failed to execute that plan. Having failed to make the signing, we then took an absolutely massive gamble by selling Sanchez anyway, and we lost the bet. It's not bad luck, it's recklessness.

It was a bit reckless but it was also necessary that we cleared space in the squad, that was possibly the priority in the summer because we had, and still have, a fair few players that Ange doesn't really want.
We didn't get everything done but we were never going to in one window and we've been scuppered by shit luck in one game.

But on the bright side, we do have a couple of promising young CBs that may now get the chance to shine.
If we constantly buy to cover every eventuality, there will never be a pathway for the youngsters to show what they can do.
Then we'll be left with a load more Tanganga's and the like who have had way less football than they needed and not progressed.

It's a fine balancing act and it won't always work out but to be honest, I'm not to upset about it because it's so early in Ange's reign.
We never know, Phillips may grasp his chance with both hands and we may end up having more money to spend elsewhere?

 

[JerryGarcia]

VDV has done enough already to make the starting spot his own and we know we’re going to sign another CB or two over the next couple of windows.

In the meantime I’m curious to see what effect Ange has had on Dier considering he held his own the other night. Obviously he’s gone in the summer but I’m not as worried about playing him as I was and we really don’t have much choice anyway so might as well just get behind him for the rest of the season and wish him well when he goes. He’s been a good servant to the club over the years after all.

I’m under no illusions that it’s going to be a difficult period coming up but I also won’t be surprised if we come through it better that expected.

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

Wow... where to start.....


But what if this WAS the plan?! It's just unfortunate and unpredictable.

Don't take my word for it. Ange is quoted on 3 occasions towards the end of the window stating the need for another CB.

When questioned on other positions (LWF, CF, DM, LB) he'd manage expectations that we aren't going to solve every need in one window.

But in contrast on this role he was absolutely explicit.

Because fast ball playing CBs are fundamental to how we defend, press, transition, and attack.

We can want Laporte and Cancelo at the back, but we don't know the club, vision, plan or available funds. Plus you can't replace a whole squad in 1 window.

Nobody is stating we need Laporte. A technically competent and reasonably fast CB who profiled to what we needed, aged between say 23 and 33 would have sufficed.

It was probably the easiest position to fill, given the quality of CBs coming through in the next few years are likely to upgrade our CB depth eventually.

Likely unless lucky with injuries etc, but not high, and unlikely both for a long period. That's small percentage odds there.

Sorry no it isn't. Every single season we have a cluster of injuries in the same position. So does every club in the league.

The luck factor is whether it last a few games, several, or half the season.

We don't know the moves the club was having to make without the right persons in place to make it, Munn, Paratici, Gabbanini, Lange, Lange's mate...

Putting to one side the club had most of last season to get it's house in order with it's structure, we self evidently had a working model with Fab and Gab's picks being filtered through Ange.

What if Sanchez was also the one pushing for a move and the club acquiesced?

More money may well be available for who we need in Jan as some players we're interesting will have short contracts left and selling clubs won't want to lose them for no money. One would hope.

By this rationale we would never buy anyone, as every single player on our list will be cheaper in the next window.

When we have ZERO CB depth we're not in a position to chance our luck to save a few quid.

It is self-inflicted, but it's not reckless, it was calculated and the club played the odds. & it's still not known how badly it'll impact results.

Agree.

Why on earth would we want to play the odds of potentially damaging our season?

If that was the case why pay Forster £50k a week. Why do clubs even have expensive 2nd and 3rd GKs if they can probably get away with it?

It's fairly unlikely the 2nd GK will play, and highly so the 3rd.

Because if they need to play and they're terrible it can do a lot of damage.

Hopefully if Phillips gets a chance he has a blinder.

But he should be starting alongside someone Ange wanted, who actually fits the system.

I just don't see any reasonable excuse for the club not getting the modest competent solution Ange repeatedly asked for.

 

[JayB]

It was a bit reckless but it was also necessary that we cleared space in the squad, that was possibly the priority in the summer because we had, and still have, a fair few players that Ange doesn't really want.
We didn't get everything done but we were never going to in one window and we've been scuppered by shit luck in one game.

But on the bright side, we do have a couple of promising young CBs that may now get the chance to shine.
If we constantly buy to cover every eventuality, there will never be a pathway for the youngsters to show what they can do.
Then we'll be left with a load more Tanganga's and the like who have had way less football than they needed and not progressed.

It's a fine balancing act and it won't always work out but to be honest, I'm not to upset about it because it's so early in Ange's reign.
We never know, Phillips may grasp his chance with both hands and we may end up having more money to spend elsewhere?

I don't think having more than two senior CBs who suit Ange's tactics constitutes "constantly buy[ing] to cover every eventuality".

There are loads of areas in the squad that likely need to be strengthened over the next two or three windows -- LW, striker, Maddison alternative, Hojbjerg replacement, second-choice goalkeeper, second-choice left back, etc. Many of those are relatively low priorities that didn't need to be addressed ugently in the summer.

CB is different. It was our biggest weakness last season to begin with, Ange was publicly outspoken during the summer about it, and it's clear we had made it a high priority right up until the moment that the window closed. We simply failed to get it across the line. It's true enough that we couldn't get all of our business done in one window, but this is one particular piece of business that absolutely should have been addressed.

We all knew we were taking a massive, massive risk. Now we've got to live with the consequences.

 

[McFlash]

I don't think having more than two senior CBs who suit Ange's tactics constitutes "constantly buy[ing] to cover every eventuality".

There are loads of areas in the squad that likely need to be strengthened over the next two or three windows -- LW, striker, Maddison alternative, Hojbjerg replacement, second-choice goalkeeper, second-choice left back, etc. Many of those are relatively low priorities that didn't need to be addressed ugently in the summer.

CB is different. It was our biggest weakness last season to begin with, Ange was publicly outspoken during the summer about it, and it's clear we had made it a high priority right up until the moment that the window closed. We simply failed to get it across the line. It's true enough that we couldn't get all of our business done in one window, but this is one particular piece of business that absolutely should have been addressed.

We all knew we were taking a massive, massive risk. Now we've got to live with the consequences.

Oh I do agree with that and said so at the time, it was our one major failure of the transfer window and pissed me off.
But with Dier, Davies and Sanchez still on the books, it was all a bit of a juggling act.
Yes, we let Sanchez go after our window had shut but again, I don't really think we had much choice in that and snatched at the opportunity to clear a squad place and free up some wages.

It was a gamble and it has bitten us on the arse but I also think it needed to be done and we have been shafted by some pretty unexpected circumstances, with losing both CB's in one game.
For me, this is all part of the "painful rebuild" that we so desperately needed.
By no means ideal but it's part of the process.

It's weird because football is probably the one thing in my life that I always see the positive side of, it's my escape.

 

[mil1lion]

I'd rather see Phillips than Sanchez anyway tbh. Even if he's raw and makes more mistakes. Sanchez would be out of contract next year I believe so playing him would not make sense in the long run. No doubt we should have got another senior centre back though as need to replace Dier too. Having 1 of Dier and Sanchez isn't the worst situation as they will both be gone in the long run anyway. You just knew this situation would come up though when we failed to get another centre back.

 

[Trees]

Oh I do agree with that and said so at the time, it was our one major failure of the transfer window and pissed me off.
But with Dier, Davies and Sanchez still on the books, it was all a bit of a juggling act.
Yes, we let Sanchez go after our window had shut but again, I don't really think we had much choice in that and snatched at the opportunity to clear a squad place and free up some wages.

It was a gamble and it has bitten us on the arse but I also think it needed to be done and we have been shafted by some pretty unexpected circumstances, with losing both CB's in one game.
For me, this is all part of the "painful rebuild" that we so desperately needed.
By no means ideal but it's part of the process.

It's weird because football is probably the one thing in my life that I always see the positive side of, it's my escape.

Up the Spurs mate. Phillips will be fine.

 

[TEESSIDE1]

I'd rather see Phillips than Sanchez anyway tbh. Even if he's raw and makes more mistakes. Sanchez would be out of contract next year I believe so playing him would not make sense in the long run. No doubt we should have got another senior centre back though as need to replace Dier too. Having 1 of Dier and Sanchez isn't the worst situation as they will both be gone in the long run anyway. You just knew this situation would come up though when we failed to get another centre back.

I saw vintage Sanchez last night in the Bayern game… he was solid as rock and playing very well and then albeit not costing a goal his curse of getting vertigo and losing his bearings struck again. He has a good game overall but it’s his nasty habit of having brain farts that cost him his career in the EPL.

Hopefully with Dier having had months to reflect on his performances that he’ll step up at least until VDV and/or a new CB comes in.

 

[McFlash]

Up the Spurs mate. Phillips will be fine.

Yep, I'd much rather Phillips or Dorrington get a chance, than shoehorn someone like Hojbjerg in there.
We've got these talented youngsters, we may as well give them the opportunity to show what they can do in a situation such as we're now in.
If we don't try them, we'll never know.

 

[Trees]

I saw vintage Sanchez last night in the Bayern game… he was solid as rock and playing very well and then albeit not costing a goal his curse of getting vertigo and losing his bearings struck again. He has a good game overall but it’s his nasty habit of having brain farts that cost him his career in the EPL.

Hopefully with Dier having had months to reflect on his performances that he’ll step up at least until VDV and/or a new CB comes in.

2021/2 admittedly in a different system Dier was excellent. The truth is he is not as bad or as good as the 2 extremes of opinion.

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

Oh I do agree with that and said so at the time, it was our one major failure of the transfer window and pissed me off.
But with Dier, Davies and Sanchez still on the books, it was all a bit of a juggling act.
Yes, we let Sanchez go after our window had shut but again, I don't really think we had much choice in that and snatched at the opportunity to clear a squad place and free up some wages.

It was a gamble and it has bitten us on the arse but I also think it needed to be done and we have been shafted by some pretty unexpected circumstances, with losing both CB's in one game.
For me, this is all part of the "painful rebuild" that we so desperately needed.
By no means ideal but it's part of the process.

It's weird because football is probably the one thing in my life that I always see the positive side of, it's my escape.

Honestly I think part of it is Ange sussed out that sanctioning the club's sale of Sanchez was the best way to guarantee the club pulls it's finger out in January.

Sanchez was above Dier in the pecking order, and Dier is above Phillips now.

So if either CB had gone down - which is to be expected especially the run of 2 PL games a week in December - then it would have been Sanchez in first with Romero / VDV.

With both CBs down Sanchez + Hojbjerg / Phillips still gives me more confidence than Dier + Hojbjerg / Phillips.

At least we could keeping pushing up and keep them away from our goal.

 

[McFlash]

Honestly I think part of it is Ange sussed out that sanctioning the club's sale of Sanchez was the best way to guarantee the club pulls it's finger out in January.

Sanchez was above Dier in the pecking order, and Dier is above Phillips now.

So if either CB had gone down - which is to be expected especially the run of 2 PL games a week in December - then it would have been Sanchez in first with Romero / VDV.

With both CBs down Sanchez + Hojbjerg / Phillips still gives me more confidence than Dier + Hojbjerg / Phillips.

At least we could keeping pushing up and keep them away from our goal.

Yeah, I'm hoping Ange sanctioned the sale of big Dav because he was told he'd get a new CB asap in January.
We really need to act fast this time, not fuck about til the end of the month.

We took a gamble and it backfired, we need to move fast to mitigate the damage as much as possible.

I guess we'll now see what Levy and the new recruitment team are all about.

 

[alamo]

The plan has always been to use several windows to get the right players in.

Not sure what to expect from the next one as it is traditionally a hard time to recruit. Loan deal maybe? We shall see.

 

[Chimbo!]

Where’s Adama Traore these days? Maybe we buy him and play him at CB?

 

[wpmcg]

I'm not sure Dier is that far behind Romero and is certainly more disciplined. His long balls are better but he lacks a bit of pace admittedly. It's VDV we'll miss the most, like Walker he can recover from any mistake. Hopefully Phillips will step up, it's worth a look I think rather than Dier/Hojbjerg.