Player Watch Player Watch: Richarlison

[Nebby]

A luxury?

Richarlison is far from being a luxury player. There is a reason Ange keeps putting him into the team and I can assure you its not as a favour. Despite having Son and Veliz, and now Johnson, Ange has and will continue to play Richarlison, the reason? Because sometimes you need a blunt instrument to create an opening. Richarlison works hard, he's physical, he gets in the opposition CBs faces, you know when he's on the and up against him you're not going to have a moments rest.

Without him we don't create the same openings. Maddison is able to ghost in behind Bournemouth unmarked likely because the CB is tracking Richarlison's run in the opposite direction, Pape Sarr doesnt get that back post loose ball unless Richarlison takes both Man Utd CBs away to the front post.

Can he up his game? Of course he can, but lets not get ahead of ourselves and start calling him a luxury.

Hard work and a greater physical presence are all when and good, but when attacking plays continue to break down because his control's gone, he treads on the ball or under-hits / over-hits passes, he hinders rather than helps. His biggest failing is that his confidence is extremely fragile, and his head drops at the first sign of trouble. He plays like he knows he's the weakest link upfront. And while I get that forwards in Ange's teams have always sacrificed themselves for the team, this is the PL and a lot of huff and puff, while admirable, just isn't going to cut it. Son's movement, guile and finishing off either foot is surely the way forward, and he's no slouch either.

 

[Locotoro]

Hard work and a greater physical presence are all when and good, but when attacking plays continue to break down because his control's gone, he treads on the ball or under-hits / over-hits passes, he hinders rather than helps. His biggest failing is that his confidence is extremely fragile, and his head drops at the first sign of trouble. He plays like he knows he's the weakest link upfront. And while I get that forwards in Ange's teams have always sacrificed themselves for the team, this is the PL and a lot of huff and puff, while admirable, just isn't going to cut it. Son's movement, guile and finishing off either foot is surely the way forward, and he's no slouch either.

He is being judged by fans and the media on his goal output - in that sense he's failing.

I don't believe Ange is judging him based on his goals. You agree that Ange's forwards must sacrifice themselves however it can not be underplayed how much this is necessary.

Ange's system is 100% about creating space and finding the open man. The player movements and the positions everyone takes up are geared towards creating an overload somewhere on the pitch. If Richarlison is capable of occupying TWO CB then not only are we creating a man advantage with a front 5 we're also creating an extra spare man due to Richarlison's hard work and being a nuisance. That is incredibly important and gives lots of chances to those around him. Son, as much as I love him as a player, does not cause deep sitting CBs the same problems. Yes he can turn and sprint into space when on the half way line but he's not going to hustle and bustle and win headers in the box the way Richarlison will.

The only way Richarlison is dropped is if we're playing against a team with a high line or if Veliz (a similar style of player) is ready sooner rather than later.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

It’s up to Richy to force his way back in the team, no reason to drop the front 3 from last game.

 

[yido_number1]

i

He is being judged by fans and the media on his goal output - in that sense he's failing.

I don't believe Ange is judging him based on his goals. You agree that Ange's forwards must sacrifice themselves however it can not be underplayed how much this is necessary.

Ange's system is 100% about creating space and finding the open man. The player movements and the positions everyone takes up are geared towards creating an overload somewhere on the pitch. If Richarlison is capable of occupying TWO CB then not only are we creating a man advantage with a front 5 we're also creating an extra spare man due to Richarlison's hard work and being a nuisance. That is incredibly important and gives lots of chances to those around him. Son, as much as I love him as a player, does not cause deep sitting CBs the same problems. Yes he can turn and sprint into space when on the half way line but he's not going to hustle and bustle and win headers in the box the way Richarlison will.

The only way Richarlison is dropped is if we're playing against a team with a high line or if Veliz (a similar style of player) is ready sooner rather than later.

All this stuff about sacrificing for others didn't stop Kyogo scoring a ton of goals for Ange.

Son has better Composure and a greater ability to stretch a team. Richy has been given a chance and hooked on 60 minutes after uninspiring performances in his games. If he's gonna come good he's gonna have to do that soon.

 

[nicdic]

He is being judged by fans and the media on his goal output - in that sense he's failing.

I don't believe Ange is judging him based on his goals. You agree that Ange's forwards must sacrifice themselves however it can not be underplayed how much this is necessary.

Ange's system is 100% about creating space and finding the open man. The player movements and the positions everyone takes up are geared towards creating an overload somewhere on the pitch. If Richarlison is capable of occupying TWO CB then not only are we creating a man advantage with a front 5 we're also creating an extra spare man due to Richarlison's hard work and being a nuisance. That is incredibly important and gives lots of chances to those around him. Son, as much as I love him as a player, does not cause deep sitting CBs the same problems. Yes he can turn and sprint into space when on the half way line but he's not going to hustle and bustle and win headers in the box the way Richarlison will.

The only way Richarlison is dropped is if we're playing against a team with a high line or if Veliz (a similar style of player) is ready sooner rather than later.

This, 100 x this.

i

All this stuff about sacrificing for others didn't stop Kyogo scoring a ton of goals for Ange.

Son has better Composure and a greater ability to stretch a team. Richy has been given a chance and hooked on 60 minutes after uninspiring performances in his games. If he's gonna come good he's gonna have to do that soon.

Sure, it didn't stop Kyogo scoring lots of goals last season, but let's be fair, Richy has played a part in 4 matches so far, it's not like it's a huge a sample size.

But what you're saying doesn't change the points made by @Locotoro. The primary role a lot of the time of the 9 in the system, is to occupy centre backs and create space for others. It is a largely selfless position. That is backed up by looking at the goals for Sarr against United and Maddison against Bournemouth in particular. It's space he creates that they have exploited. Also Ange himself has said he was happy with the performances in the league from him, and I think it was the Fuham game, where he actually scored, that he was less impressed with his performance.

Too many people are just looking at whether he scored/assisted. Reality is, he is doing what the striker is needed for a lot of the time. It's also true that he is not really having any/many opportunities created for him right now.

Son excelled against Burnley, and yes if I had to choose a player in our squad to be through 1 on 1 with the keeper, Son is our most unerring finisher. But, and it really is a big but, Son was so good against Burnley largely because of the space they left in behind. If a team is going to come and play a high line against us, I'm all for Son playing through the middle (even though I think he'd still be pretty effective in that scenario coming from the left). It is however a completely different proposition for him to play through the middle against a team that is going to sit in or sit deep.

 

[Locotoro]

i

All this stuff about sacrificing for others didn't stop Kyogo scoring a ton of goals for Ange.

Son has better Composure and a greater ability to stretch a team. Richy has been given a chance and hooked on 60 minutes after uninspiring performances in his games. If he's gonna come good he's gonna have to do that soon.

I'm not going to patronise you because I have no idea if you watched much of Kyogo last couple of seasons. But I will say this much, he's only able to get many of the goals that he does because the two wide players in that system (Maeda and Jota) were able to beat their men and get in behind so easily. Kyogo had this nice trick/ploy of always taking up an offside position where the CBs would just leave him behind, and as long as the wingers would cut it back to him he'd get lots of tap ins and remain onside. The teams in Scotland didn't really wise up to it because every one was busy trying to be the best of the rest and play out from the back with a high line - albeit to a much (much) lower standard than Celtic.
Would Kyogo score the same at Spurs? No, because wit the exception of Johnson we don't have Wingers that have the blistering pace of a Maeda or such a technical advantage over the opposition that Jota did. Son is fast but doesnt attack the defence like a winger and Kulusevski doesnt have that type of pace

 

[yido_number1]

I'm not going to patronise you because I have no idea if you watched much of Kyogo last couple of seasons. But I will say this much, he's only able to get many of the goals that he does because the two wide players in that system (Maeda and Jota) were able to beat their men and get in behind so easily. Kyogo had this nice trick/ploy of always taking up an offside position where the CBs would just leave him behind, and as long as the wingers would cut it back to him he'd get lots of tap ins and remain onside. The teams in Scotland didn't really wise up to it because every one was busy trying to be the best of the rest and play out from the back with a high line - albeit to a much (much) lower standard than Celtic.
Would Kyogo score the same at Spurs? No, because wit the exception of Johnson we don't have Wingers that have the blistering pace of a Maeda or such a technical advantage over the opposition that Jota did. Son is fast but doesnt attack the defence like a winger and Kulusevski doesnt have that type of pace

I don't think any of this excuses the level of performance Richarlison has put in during his 13 or so months at spurs. I've seen way more from Perisic, Son, kulusevski and Solomon so far. I'd prefer Richy taking up the Everton wing role he had in the past and get him competing with Solomon and Johnson for playing time.

His form has probably been the only downer on the team so far.

 

[Nebby]

He is being judged by fans and the media on his goal output - in that sense he's failing.

I don't believe Ange is judging him based on his goals. You agree that Ange's forwards must sacrifice themselves however it can not be underplayed how much this is necessary.

Ange's system is 100% about creating space and finding the open man. The player movements and the positions everyone takes up are geared towards creating an overload somewhere on the pitch. If Richarlison is capable of occupying TWO CB then not only are we creating a man advantage with a front 5 we're also creating an extra spare man due to Richarlison's hard work and being a nuisance. That is incredibly important and gives lots of chances to those around him. Son, as much as I love him as a player, does not cause deep sitting CBs the same problems. Yes he can turn and sprint into space when on the half way line but he's not going to hustle and bustle and win headers in the box the way Richarlison will.

The only way Richarlison is dropped is if we're playing against a team with a high line or if Veliz (a similar style of player) is ready sooner rather than later.

I'd be very surprised - and very disappointed - if Ange goes and drops the guy who actually scores. And if I were a CB, I know which out of Son or Richarlison would worry me most (hint: it's the guy who actually scores).

Son was excellent against Burnley, and was ably supported by Kulu and Solomon. Richie, nice guy and all that, has had plenty of opportunities to show what he can do, and it aint all that much in comparison.

 

[Nebby]

This, 100 x this.

Sure, it didn't stop Kyogo scoring lots of goals last season, but let's be fair, Richy has played a part in 4 matches so far, it's not like it's a huge a sample size.

But what you're saying doesn't change the points made by @Locotoro. The primary role a lot of the time of the 9 in the system, is to occupy centre backs and create space for others. It is a largely selfless position. That is backed up by looking at the goals for Sarr against United and Maddison against Bournemouth in particular. It's space he creates that they have exploited. Also Ange himself has said he was happy with the performances in the league from him, and I think it was the Fuham game, where he actually scored, that he was less impressed with his performance.

Too many people are just looking at whether he scored/assisted. Reality is, he is doing what the striker is needed for a lot of the time. It's also true that he is not really having any/many opportunities created for him right now.

Son excelled against Burnley, and yes if I had to choose a player in our squad to be through 1 on 1 with the keeper, Son is our most unerring finisher. But, and it really is a big but, Son was so good against Burnley largely because of the space they left in behind. If a team is going to come and play a high line against us, I'm all for Son playing through the middle (even though I think he'd still be pretty effective in that scenario coming from the left). It is however a completely different proposition for him to play through the middle against a team that is going to sit in or sit deep.

A point on Burnley's high line: if you have a forward that scores, the opposition has to come out and play. As much as it was a mistake by Kompany, it was also a reward for our finishing.

 

[mil1lion]

I'd still like to give him longer to show what he can do under Ange. It still feels like he needs a purple patch and then he will be good. For now he needs to start on the bench and come on late in games to try get the odd goal from the bench. Similar to what Son did last season when he finally got benched and then goes and scores a few against Leicester. Definitely a situation to keep an eye on ahead of the January window. I would only sell if we get someone else in but that will be difficult mid season.

 

[nicdic]

I don't think any of this excuses the level of performance Richarlison has put in during his 13 or so months at spurs. I've seen way more from Perisic, Son, kulusevski and Solomon so far. I'd prefer Richy taking up the Everton wing role he had in the past and get him competing with Solomon and Johnson for playing time.

His form has probably been the only downer on the team so far.

His performances have been fine. You're completely using double standards, or just looking at assists and goal number with no context whatsoever

 

[thp86]

His performances have been fine. You're completely using double standards, or just looking at assists and goal number with no context whatsoever

That’s a pretty low bar if we’re saying his performances have been fine. I like richy and was excited when we bought him, but his performances this season haven’t been fine. As a number 9 he will be judged on goals as well as his all round play. He hasn’t been scoring and I wouldn’t say his general play has been good either. There have been numerous heavy touches, misplaced passes, petulance (the booking against Bournemouth), playing the wrong passes (we had a great counter attack chance against Bournemouth where a simple pass to Maddison would have set us free but he took one too many touches and tried to pass it to a player when the pass wasn’t on), he also goes to ground very easily. He’s had a few moments where he has held the ball up well, but that has been sparse.

This is not about following the media narrative and opposition fans that are focused on goals and assists. We are tottenham fans and watch every minute of our games. My own eyes tell me his performances haven’t been good.

I totally agree that Burnley’s high line was perfect for Sonny and we will find it tougher against a low block, but right now I would no way be starting richy against a low block sheff United. We would be accommodating an out of form number 9 and playing son who is our best striker as a winger which doesn’t suit him.

 

[nicdic]

That’s a pretty low bar if we’re saying his performances have been fine. I like richy and was excited when we bought him, but his performances this season haven’t been fine. As a number 9 he will be judged on goals as well as his all round play. He hasn’t been scoring and I wouldn’t say his general play has been good either. There have been numerous heavy touches, misplaced passes, petulance (the booking against Bournemouth), playing the wrong passes (we had a great counter attack chance against Bournemouth where a simple pass to Maddison would have set us free but he took one too many touches and tried to pass it to a player when the pass wasn’t on), he also goes to ground very easily. He’s had a few moments where he has held the ball up well, but that has been sparse.

This is not about following the media narrative and opposition fans that are focused on goals and assists. We are tottenham fans and watch every minute of our games. My own eyes tell me his performances haven’t been good.

I totally agree that Burnley’s high line was perfect for Sonny and we will find it tougher against a low block, but right now I would no way be starting richy against a low block sheff United. We would be accommodating an out of form number 9 and playing son who is our best striker as a winger which doesn’t suit him.

Game is all about opinions, and that's fine if you wouldn't play him.

What I'll push back against is the idea that he is somehow putting in worse performances than the rest of the front three. All of them have looked off it compared to what we know of their best. All have had dodgy touches on multiple occasions. Richy is being treated way more harshly because he isn't Harry Kane, which is completely unfair. He's doing what he's been asked to in terms of occupying defenders and movement. The petulance is maybe frustrating, but he's showing that he cares, which honestly makes me want him to win even more. He's desperate to be good for us, for every touch to count, to score for us. Now I'm not saying this is your approach, but so many seem like they've written him off already which is ridiculous, and are almost desperate for him to fail.

 

[thp86]

Game is all about opinions, and that's fine if you wouldn't play him.

What I'll push back against is the idea that he is somehow putting in worse performances than the rest of the front three. All of them have looked off it compared to what we know of their best. All have had dodgy touches on multiple occasions. Richy is being treated way more harshly because he isn't Harry Kane, which is completely unfair. He's doing what he's been asked to in terms of occupying defenders and movement. The petulance is maybe frustrating, but he's showing that he cares, which honestly makes me want him to win even more. He's desperate to be good for us, for every touch to count, to score for us. Now I'm not saying this is your approach, but so many seem like they've written him off already which is ridiculous, and are almost desperate for him to fail.

I haven’t read all the comments in here, but the front three in general for the first three games were pretty poor. Sonny is ineffective as a left winger (different to playing as a left forward) and kulu has been steady albeit a little predictable coming in on his left foot.

We had a much better balance with Sonny central and Solomon on the left.

I have no problem with richy but I just cannot comprehend him starting ahead of Solomon, son and kulu right now. I have him starting on the bench and when he comes on he has to put in a good performance(s) to get a starting place again.

 

[Locotoro]

I'd be very surprised - and very disappointed - if Ange goes and drops the guy who actually scores. And if I were a CB, I know which out of Son or Richarlison would worry me most (hint: it's the guy who actually scores).

Son was excellent against Burnley, and was ably supported by Kulu and Solomon. Richie, nice guy and all that, has had plenty of opportunities to show what he can do, and it aint all that much in comparison.

I can see that you hold your opinion strongly and that's fair. For the purpose of balance, if I'm a premier league CB playing in a deep line then I'd take standing on Son's heel all game long compared to being up against an aggressive, dirty, elbows in the air, awkward, forward like Richarlison.

You talk about goals as if they are the cause rather than the consequence. Son scores because, he played well AND because the strategy and tactics suited him. Against a deep sitting team that will bully him in close quarters he's better on the wing where he's got more space to operate.

 

[McFlash]

Some really intelligent and insightful posts on the past few pages.
Both sides of opinion argued well and respectfully.

 

[Nebby]

I can see that you hold your opinion strongly and that's fair. For the purpose of balance, if I'm a premier league CB playing in a deep line then I'd take standing on Son's heel all game long compared to being up against an aggressive, dirty, elbows in the air, awkward, forward like Richarlison.

You talk about goals as if they are the cause rather than the consequence. Son scores because, he played well AND because the strategy and tactics suited him. Against a deep sitting team that will bully him in close quarters he's better on the wing where he's got more space to operate.

Plenty of teams have tried to rough up Son before, and he‘s stood up to it just fine. But that’s all besides the point. What cannot be denied is that Richarlison is woefully short on confidence, and we have a host of other players that aren’t. Let’s hope Fulham away was the first and last time Ange has a brain fart when it comes to team selection, and Richie spends the foreseeable back on the bench.

 

[Dannyspur]

Likelihood of Sheffield United sitting with 10 behind the ball. It might suit Richarleson to be in among them to get on the end of crosses as dribbling through is going to be tough.

 

[Locotoro]

Some really intelligent and insightful posts on the past few pages.
Both sides of opinion argued well and respectfully.

Piss off.





...only kidding

 

[nicdic]

I haven’t read all the comments in here, but the front three in general for the first three games were pretty poor. Sonny is ineffective as a left winger (different to playing as a left forward) and kulu has been steady albeit a little predictable coming in on his left foot.

We had a much better balance with Sonny central and Solomon on the left.

I have no problem with richy but I just cannot comprehend him starting ahead of Solomon, son and kulu right now. I have him starting on the bench and when he comes on he has to put in a good performance(s) to get a starting place again.

Yeah, that's a completely fair take, and to be completely honest, as much as I'm arguing for Richy to come back in, I don't think he will. I think Ange will stick with the team from Burnley. In part to reward Solomon's performance, but also because he doesn't seem to make his team decisions based on emotions. I think a lot of my desire for Richarlison to come back in, is that I want him to succeed, and feel he has his best opportunity of doing so by getting straight back on the horse, as it were. Sheffield United are one of the weakest teams that will come to White Hart Lane this season, and to give him the opportunity to find form is a good thing IMO. He scores a couple against them, and is suddenly a different player vs Arsenal and Liverpool. Play him from the bench on Saturday, and I don't see him getting another start until October and Luton away, and even then how likely would that be? As much as I think it would be good for him, to be played into form, I think ultimately that's the best for the team and squad too. He's our main recognised striker, and it will serve us best to get him firing.