Player Watch Player Watch: Yves Bissouma

[McFlash]

Literally forgot what thread I was in for a moment there.
Why are we arguing about strikers?

 

[McFlash]

I’m really confused with what thread I’m in

I know. I could've sworn I clicked the Bissouma thread but had to double check!

 

[mil1lion]

Bissouma is bright like deer bright?

 

[Neon_Knight_]

You have included all comps, which isn't a fair comparison, as he played Europa league with us and Champions League with Utd, 2 very different competitions quality wise.

On Premier League only, he averaged a goal every 212 mins per goal with us and with Utd it was a goal every 153 mins.

In his first season with Man Utd, he only scored a goal every 283 minutes in the PL, which is significantly worse than either of his seasons with us (199 & 226 minutes)...so he scored less with Man Utd in the first instance.

His goal rate increased in subsequent seasons with Utd, but this wasn't an immediate effect of joining a better team (as his scoring reduced in the first instance), and his assists declined massively as his scoring increased relatively marginally. He got 9-11 PL assists in each of his first three seasons in the PL (with us + Utd combined), then only managed 10 in the subsequent PL seasons combined (20 assists in two seasons with us, then only 21 assists. This shows that his role changed, with him more focused on scoring and far less focused on creating, which isn't necessarily an improvement in productivity even though it is an improvement in goal output.

I agree that CL vs. EL isn't a fair comparison. However, by limiting it to PL goals only, you're glossing over the fact that in his most prolific season for Man Utd he did well in the league but really terribly in cup competitions (only 1 goal).

 

[jonnyp]

I’m really confused with what thread I’m in

It's the Yvitar Berbasouma thread...

Hope he can recapture the player he used to be for next season. We really need better quality in central midfield.

 

[spurs9]

In his first season with Man Utd, he only scored a goal every 283 minutes in the PL, which is significantly worse than either of his seasons with us (199 & 226 minutes)...so he scored less with Man Utd in the first instance.

His goal rate increased in subsequent seasons with Utd, but this wasn't an immediate effect of joining a better team (as his scoring reduced in the first instance), and his assists declined massively as his scoring increased relatively marginally. He got 9-11 PL assists in each of his first three seasons in the PL (with us + Utd combined), then only managed 10 in the subsequent PL seasons combined (20 assists in two seasons with us, then only 21 assists. This shows that his role changed, with him more focused on scoring and far less focused on creating, which isn't necessarily an improvement in productivity even though it is an improvement in goal output.

I agree that CL vs. EL isn't a fair comparison. However, by limiting it to PL goals only, you're glossing over the fact that in his most prolific season for Man Utd he did well in the league but really terribly in cup competitions (only 1 goal).

Probably should leave the Berbatov talk for a different thread.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Wonder what he thinks about Brighton's form this season?

Not been the season any of us were hoping for from him - but we've had a lot of problems on and off the pitch and the injuries haven't helped. We've seen flashes of brilliance from him but zero consistency.

Brighton form Bissouma + Bentancur (if he gets back to his best) would be my first choice midfield two by a mile. Wonder if we'll ever see it the way I hoped...

With a two-man midfield, neither Bissouma nor Bentancur would be suited to playing defensively enough that the other has enough freedom to be creative. The same is true of any CM pair we can field with our existing squad, which is why everyone is constantly crying out for a change of formation.
One of them alongside a Wanyama / Sandro / Makelele type CDM would be ideal.

 

[bubble07]

With a two-man midfield, neither Bissouma nor Bentancur would be suited to playing defensively enough that the other has enough freedom to be creative. The same is true of any CM pair we can field with our existing squad, which is why everyone is constantly crying out for a change of formation.
One of them alongside a Wanyama / Sandro / Makelele type CDM would be ideal.

But we really could also do with maddison

 

[Neon_Knight_]

But we really could also do with maddison

Depending on the new manager, I think we could make any of the following work next season, with all permutations likely to get more out of Bissouma than our current system does:

1) 5-2-3, but with a true CDM to give a bit more freedom to the other CM without leaving ourselves more exposed.
CDM-------
---------CM

2) 4-1-2-3, with a true CDM giving protection to the defence and freedom to the other two CMs to be more creative / expansive.
----CDM----
CM------CM

3) 4-2-1-3, with a true CAM playing ahead of any two of existing CMs, to provide more creativity.
CM------CM
----CAM----

4) 4-2-3-1, with a true CDM + a true CAM, with a box-to-box CM between them (i.e. how we played with during the peak Poch era).
--CDM-------
--------CM---
LW--CAM--RW

1 ) & 4) would only accommodate one of Bissouma / Bentancur / Hojbjerg at a time (we'd almost certainly use Hojbjerg as our primary back-up to the CDM). If Bentancur makes a full recovery early on in the 2023-24 season, I could see Bissouma really struggling to make an impact again.
2) & 3) would allow any two of Bissouma / Bentancur / Hojbjerg to start in the "CM" roles, with Hojbjerg (2) / Bentancur (3) the likely candidates to cover

I wouldn't be surprised if we went with either 2) or 3) in the first instance, with a starting CAM or CDM signed in the summer, then transition to 4) at a later date when one of our existing CMs can be replaced with whichever of CAM/CDM the squad lacks. If this is the case, while I would really like us to add a creative CAM this summer, I can see us prioritising protection for the defence during the first season that we revert to a back four.

 

[YiddoInPoland]

Probably should leave the Berbatov talk for a different thread.

From 2007

 

[dtxspurs]

He just needs to forget everything Conte trained into him ahead of next season. Go back to how he played for Brighton, focus on that and the player we thought we were buying and he’ll be a real asset next season. Plus of course there’s the cloud he joined under which would have had a negative mental impact on him.

We should all be excited by him and more importantly, he should be excited about next season too.

What was the could he joined under?

 

[spurs9]

With a two-man midfield, neither Bissouma nor Bentancur would be suited to playing defensively enough that the other has enough freedom to be creative. The same is true of any CM pair we can field with our existing squad, which is why everyone is constantly crying out for a change of formation.
One of them alongside a Wanyama / Sandro / Makelele type CDM would be ideal.

Wasn't Bissouma a DM at Brighton? His defensive stats there would suggest he is defensive enough, is there something in his play that makes you think he wouldn't be?

 

[Japhet]

What was the could he joined under?

Police investigation.

 

[dtxspurs]

Police investigation.

Ah damn I totally forgot about that.

 

[Neon_Knight_]

Wasn't Bissouma a DM at Brighton? His defensive stats there would suggest he is defensive enough, is there something in his play that makes you think he wouldn't be?

I see him more as a Dembele type player than a CDM destroyer (i.e. decent defensively and helps to break up play, but benefits from having a more defensive teammate alongside him to free him up a bit).
He spent a lot of time in our 3rd when we played against him last season...wasn't exactly sitting deep shielding their defence.

 

[Chris Flynn]

State of football. We need one midfielder to the tackling, one to do the passing, one to do the running. How about just do all three. This country

 

[dtxspurs]

State of football. We need one midfielder to the tackling, one to do the passing, one to do the running. How about just do all three. This country

Pretty confident Bentancur & Bissouma will be just fine as a duo

 

[mdharris]

Hopefully he starts sooner rather than later. Any chance for this weekend starting place?

 

[onthetwo]

Pretty confident Bentancur & Bissouma will be just fine as a duo

fingers crossed that Bentancur can still move when he returns. Sandro and Big Vic are too fresh in my mind (sadly).....

 

[wrd]

fingers crossed that Bentancur can still move when he returns. Sandro and Big Vic are too fresh in my mind (sadly).....

There seems to have been a vast improvement in recovery from ACL in recent years, I'm still cautious though.