Pressing

[thekneaf]

As someone mentioned earlier, it’s conceivable that the idea is to play high intensity for a set amount of play: I guess to storm the opposition to grab a goal and then sit back and defend. Tbf it must be exhausting to press all game, every game.

Yeah, it's working out what the trigger to press is and then all doing that fluidly together.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

As someone mentioned earlier, it’s conceivable that the idea is to play high intensity for a set amount of play: I guess to storm the opposition to grab a goal and then sit back and defend. Tbf it must be exhausting to press all game, every game.

I lack faith in the intelligence of footballers to carry out two sets of tactics within one match.

 

[C1w8]

As someone mentioned earlier, it’s conceivable that the idea is to play high intensity for a set amount of play: I guess to storm the opposition to grab a goal and then sit back and defend. Tbf it must be exhausting to press all game, every game.

The first half wasn't great with pressing but at 0-0, when we'd created a couple of decent chances, the lack of press isn't a massive issue for me personally.

But when you go 1-0 down in the second half you have no choice but to go and get the ball, and try to make something happen, and we just didn't.

 

[Metalhead]

The first half wasn't great with pressing but at 0-0, when we'd created a couple of decent chances, the lack of press isn't a massive issue for me personally.

But when you go 1-0 down in the second half you have no choice but to go and get the ball, and try to make something happen, and we just didn't.

Agreed.

 

[Metalhead]

I lack faith in the intelligence of footballers to carry out two sets of tactics within one match.

Well, there is weight in what you say to an extent. Not that I would blanket label them as unintelligent but I guess you could question whether the tactics are a little convoluted for them.

 

[The Doc]

Yep, difficult to discern approach based on end of last season, (low block and counter-attacks seemed to be the mo) the doc, which suggested otherwise, and now Sunday. Probably best to ignore Sunday for now, unless we are still doing the same aimless things at the end of Oct. One thing that does stick in my mind though. When we were all laughing at Man U under JM, Trix posted something to the effect that he (JM) wasn't really a coach in the commonly understood sense, and preferred working with older players who didn't need much in the way of telling what to do. That's clearly ok if the club follows that model with recruitment decisions based on experience, but, by and large, it's not DL's way. Maybe he (DL) agreed a new policy when he appointed JM? The alternative scenario (there was a fundamental misunderstanding on both parts) is not something I want to consider. Anyway, pressing. Should be relatively easy to coach in a co-ordinated way. Whether that gets the most out of this group of players is another question.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

"Pressing" is something more than just uniquely defined by "high press". "Pressing" can happen all over the pitch. It's about tricking the opponent and stressing them, and that can happen anywhere. It doesn't have to be "high". I never fully loved Pochettino's "high press". When it's only "high" it becomes predictable, repetitive and disruptive, but not entirely productive. However, high pressing is easy to implement in the squad because you literally say "you fight them off here" whilst pointing to the opponent's defensive third. A "press" that isn't only high is much, much harder to implement, because it leaves the players with some autonomy as far as when/where to do it. This is what's going wrong more often than right, the player's can't identify what level of pressing should be done when.

 

[double0]

I miss the days where everyone didn't think they were a Tactical Analyst and we could just moan about performances. FIFA/FM has a lot to answer for!

We've also all moved on as fans, everyones more aware of tactics pressing formations etc.

 

[parj]

Interesting to hear Jose moaning about the lack of pressing on Sunday, especially when he sets the defence up in such a low block and the players are clearly not match fit yet. Pressing is not simple and needs to be coordinated and requires high energy levels. I think there are a number reasons why our highly effective press under Poch tailed off:

1. We moved to a bigger pitch. The old WHL pitch was small, and when we moved to Wembley it was simply too easy for good teams to pass around the press. New WHL is also a bigger pitch making pressing harder.
2. Lack of pace in defence. Collectively our defence has got slower since 2015/16/17. Verts and Toby got older. Walker left. Rose got injured. This resulted in the defence dropping deeper meaning if the forwards pressed there was too much space behind them for teams to pass their way out.
3. Lack of athleticism in CM. Dembele and Wanyama were beasts. When the defence squeezed up it gave them a small area to totally dominate physically and they were happy to search and destroy in support of the press. Winks and Sissoko are just nowhere near the same in terms of proactive athleticism. Hojbjerg showed signs in pre-season that he is willing to do this, but he needs a partner who is also happy to put a shift in.
4. Stale squad. A lack of investment meant Poch had the same players for 4 or 5 consecutive pre-seasons. There are only so many times the players will do the same double running sessions to enable a high-energy press. The likes of Kane and Dele have significantly dropped their work ethic off the ball in the last 18 months. Moura and Son can press all they like in isolation but unless all 5 forward players 'go as one' it will be a waste of effort.

Quite simply we do not have the energy levels or the personnel to press well so we need to keep the ball better. Mourinho has set us up as a low block counter attacking team but without a press or a progressive playmaker I do not see how we can have any success unless teams fall for Toby's long ball over the top to Son or Dele.

It's worrying in this day and age that players don't have stamina to press or make runs

 

[spids]

It's worrying in this day and age that players don't have stamina to press or make runs

It is understandable when they have not had a proper pre-season and are not match fit. What is more worrying is that the club allowed all our payers to jet off around the world in the middle of a global pandemic and then were surprised when some of them were infected or had to quarantine, missing the bulk of pre-season.

 

[parj]

It is understandable when they have not had a proper pre-season and are not match fit. What is more worrying is that the club allowed all our payers to jet off around the world in the middle of a global pandemic and then were surprised when some of them were infected or had to quarantine, missing the bulk of pre-season.

Everton didnt have 3 of their starting 11 for most of their pre-season. I don't believe it's a pre-season thing at all. I don't think they know when they are pressing or making runs. For me I don't believe they get the tactics.

I don't think I have seen a lazier Spurs team compared to the Everton game. Even our bottom-half team from 90s worked harder.

 

[wizgell]

We've also all moved on as fans, everyones more aware of tactics pressing formations etc.

Aware yes, qualified no.

I have years of coaching experience, have studied it at Uni etc but I don't watch a game to break it down tactically. I watch a game to enjoy football for what it is.

 

[dude573]

I don't think our lack of pressing is anything new though. We stopped pressing under Poch - it was even long before he lost heart for the job too.

 

[double0]

Aware yes, qualified no.

I have years of coaching experience, have studied it at Uni etc but I don't watch a game to break it down tactically. I watch a game to enjoy football for what it is.

You don't need a university degree to appreciate tactical play...football for what it is involves a certain amount of set plays, zone marking, triggers. People are much more aware because of the wall to wall coverage.

 

[wizgell]

You don't need a university degree to appreciate tactical play...football for what it is involves a certain amount of set plays, zone marking, triggers. People are much more aware because of the wall to wall coverage.

Again appreciate tactical play and give so much energy to breaking it down are completely different.

 

[double0]

Again appreciate tactical play and give so much energy to breaking it down are completely different.

What is your point?

 

[wizgell]

What is your point?

My point is that armchair experts are tedious and their 'insight' amounts for nothing. Just an observation

 

[double0]

My point is that armchair experts are tedious and their 'insight' amounts for nothing. Just an observation

Pretty much like the keyboard worriors

 

[wizgell]

Pretty much like the keyboard worriors

Very much so, and if you hinting at me being such then you are completely wrong.

I just find it tedious, when people like Windy and Cowlin are elevated to some sort of higher status as fans because they produce their own tactical analysis etc which is completely null and void and will never alter the team or anything that happens on the pitch

 

[spids]

Aware yes, qualified no.

I have years of coaching experience, have studied it at Uni etc but I don't watch a game to break it down tactically. I watch a game to enjoy football for what it is.

Fine. And some watch football as they enjoy breaking it down tactically. Different things for different people. Everything is fine, live and let live. But if analysing and dissecting tactics isn't your thing then maybe advisable to avoid the threads on a football message board that are doing just that.