Professional fouls.

[JimmyG2]

The professional foul argument rears its ugly head once more. Ironic really just as Spurs are gaining a reputation for being more dark chocolate Brazil nut centred than our traditional Milk chocolate, orange cream assortment

People are suggesting we should crowd the ref: dispute every decision and commit the so called professional foul. A more unprofessional practice it is hard to imagine.

This recent undermining of the 'beautiful game and what I have always believed was the Spurs way arises from last weeks alleged failure of Eriksen to foul Ya Ya Toure and thereby prevent Man. City's goal last week

It's a very bad example because it involves that nice Christian Eriksen bringing down a raging bull, before he even gets into our half. I mean where does it stop? Breaking the keeper's arm at the pre-match hand shake?

But the principle is the same. Do we need to become more cynical and less nice in order to achieve success?
And if we do is it worth it? Is that the kind of football we like to see.

. If it was made a red card offence anywhere on the pitch it would die a very sudden death..

 

[penfold_99]

We there is a line and i think we have previously been well short of it in previous years.

I think we now play closer to the line and have benefited from this but haven't turned in playing like Costa who continually plays way over the line and somehow keeps getting away with it.

We need to improve in the 1% things like playing to the whistle as we will be opportunities but it's a mental think to play to the line that a red has drawn. Just wish the line was consistent!

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Ya Ya Toure

 

[Locotoro]

Personally agree that a professional foul, where obvious, should be a straight red card. Ruins the game

 

[fletch82]

What I actually said was he needed to make some effort to block him or win the ball ?
Not pull out a gat and bus a cap in his ass.

 

[fatpiranha]

. I mean where does it stop? Breaking the keeper's arm at the pre-match hand shake?

... or poisoning the opposition's pre-match lasagne?

 

[Sanj]

This is an interesting debate. I would hate to see us resort to the dark arts as i take a lot of pride in Spurs doing things the right way, and i use this as a great example for my 8 year old son who has just started playing.

That said, i think we do miss out on a number of decisions as we do not crowd the ref and our managers are so respectful to Refs during and after the games. Refs know they can err on the side of caution and not give us big decisions without too much castigation - and i think this has cost us points and CL qualification in previous years. Was it 3 years ago that we missed out on CL by 2 points and didn't get a pen the whole season?
I would like to see our manager occasionally raise the issue of refereeing and how we seem to miss out on decisions as we show the referees so much respect, whereas teams who crowd or bully the refs seem to get more decisions in their favour.

One thing i do hate with this 'professional foul' is how some players don't even try for the ball and just kick out at the attacking player - this should be a straight red as there intent is purely to foul the player. If the ball wasn't in play (and most of the time the ball is not in the fouling players reach) or it was an off the ball kick they'd get a red card - so why not when they deliberately try and foul the opposition with violent conduct?

 

[Wiener]

Many commentators applaud professional fouls. It's mostly ex-professionals who do this which gives you some idea of how little sportsmanship and fair play matters in modern football. This is where good refereeing is needed. I believe we need more technology to support referees ( getting things wrong really undermines their authority) so they can focus on ensuring the game is played without this cynicism and emphasis on winning.

 

[Sevens]

Personally agree that a professional foul, where obvious, should be a straight red card. Ruins the game

I think because cards are handed out so easy now they need to introduce a third card and really crack down on foul play. Something like Yellow is a warning, Orange is 15 mins in the sin bin (which is carried over to the next game that player plays in if the match finishes before the sin bin time is fully used) and then Red which being sent off. Orange is 2x Yellow, Red is 3x Yellow.

I'd then like to see yellows for a lot more offences, e.g. back chatting the ref, kicking the ball away etc. But I'd also like to see a bit more common sense, e.g. if a player genuinely makes an attempt for the ball but is slightly late on a greasy surface he shouldn't be booked the first time it happens.

As for professional fouls as far as I am concerned they are as much cheating as diving. Under "my" rules that would be instant sin bin offence.

 

[Gassin's finest]

Personally agree that a professional foul, where obvious, should be a straight red card. Ruins the game

I always thought that was the rule. Used to be when I played.

 

[spids]

I always thought that was the rule. Used to be when I played.

In those days a professional foul was really the 'last man' foul. The rules have evolved. Now any kind of foul, however innocuous, as the last man gets a straight red (ridiculous) and a tactical foul (i.e. professional foul) to stop a massive advantage (i.e. 3 on 1 situation) is a yellow.

Eriksen was not quite close enough IMO to tactically foul Toure last week (yes he could have lunged). Dier would have taken him out without having to lunge I am sure. Probably why he is now banned after racking up a quick 5 yellow cards in 8 games.

 

[SFCS]

We commit cynical fouls all the time, maybe not as often as some but we still do it. Giving red cards could reduce it in games but so would 3 game bans for appealing for throw ins when the player knows it shouldn't be there ball, or 10 game bans for diving but it doesn't mean it's proportional. It might go the otherway too, the whole reason they changed the last man rule was that referees weren't enforcing it, they kept bottling obvious red cards. Now we have the "clear goalscoring opportunity" opportunity rule which is subjective and gives referees plenty of room to bottled decisions and apply it however they see fit.

I'd rather see holding and shirt pulling at set-pieces get clamped down on and more consistency for refereeing in general.

I'm glad we don't surround the ref all the time and I'm glad our manager doesn't bang on about conspiracy nonsense or insult the referee after a match with a bad decision though. Those kinds of things are embarrassing. Cynical fouls, much like time wasting or running the ball into the corner aren't in the spirit of the game but there's too much at stake these days to be the naive, nice guys all game.

 

[Gassin's finest]

In those days a professional foul was really the 'last man' foul. The rules have evolved. Now any kind of foul, however innocuous, as the last man gets a straight red (ridiculous) and a tactical foul (i.e. professional foul) to stop a massive advantage (i.e. 3 on 1 situation) is a yellow.

Eriksen was not quite close enough IMO to tactically foul Toure last week (yes he could have lunged). Dier would have taken him out without having to lunge I am sure. Probably why he is now banned after racking up a quick 5 yellow cards in 8 games.

If you're the last man, and you've denied a clear goal scoring opportunity, then yes that's a straight red... intentional or not.

I don't condone the tactical foul personally, the mindset of "taking one for the team." You run the risk of hurting the team more with your being sent off, and you're just ruining the game.

 

[spids]

If you're the last man, and you've denied a clear goal scoring opportunity, then yes that's a straight red... intentional or not.

I don't condone the tactical foul personally, the mindset of "taking one for the team." You run the risk of hurting the team more with your being sent off, and you're just ruining the game.

I was responding to a post that said in the old days a 'professional' foul used to be a straight red, and was merely pointing out that the difference today is that a genuine attempt to get the ball and a borderline foul may result in a red card and a penalty (ruining the game in my opinion) and a professional 'take one for the team' foul (which players like Makelele excelled at) that stops a very advantageous situation for the attacking team only results in a yellow. If you want to succeed these days you need to do the latter to reduce the likelihood of former.

 

[spids]

It's got to the point (the rules on last man fouls) where the best scenario, when your forward breaks through clear on goal, is not for him to simply score, but for the keeper to bring him down, get red carded and have a penalty. They should change the rule to consider that if a penalty is awarded the goal scoring opportunity remains and thus it is a yellow at most (as no goal scoring opportunity has been denied).