Ref Watch 2022-23

[Japhet]

Can't get my head round how that was not a penalty against Kehrer yesterday. He stopped a pass on it's way to Kane with his hand and got away with it. Simple rules have been made so friggin' complicated now that nobody really understands them and there's always an escape route when there's a bad decision.

 

[allatsea]

Can't get my head round how that was not a penalty against Kehrer yesterday. He stopped a pass on it's way to Kane with his hand and got away with it. Simple rules have been made so friggin' complicated now that nobody really understands them and there's always an escape route when there's a bad decision.

I no longer know what is a handball and what isn't and nor apparently do the Refs.

 

[Danny1]

Both the Kehrer and Sabitzer decisions were 100% incorrect.

1 - Sabitzer - How is any player allowed to raise their studs into the knee of an opponent and get away with it. Neville used the excuse of "he tried to pull away", which I don't agree with, however does that mean that he thinks it's only a red if he followed through & caused a severe injury to the player? Very stupid and totally bias commentary from Neville in this instance. It was an immediate red.

2 - Kehrer - The handball rule is now beyond ridiculous. His arm was not in a natural position, it wasn't planted to the ground supporting his weight and it stopped a pass through to a player who would have been through on goal. As blatant a handball as you are likely to see.

Both decisions horribly wrong by 4 different people across the two games.

 

[cliff jones]

just seen the two goons clearly interfering with play, blocking Martinez view of Jorginho's shot at the weekend. Was that even checked?

 

[philll]

So pretty much every single decision (apart from the Pope red that I can see) was deemed wrong by Gallagher. The Arsenal third should've been offside imo but I would say that (even though I don't think that judgment is based on any bias - there are clearly 2 Arsenal players in offside positions blocking the keeper's view).

Ref Watch: Former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher on Lee Mason's departure, Nick Pope red card and much more LIVE!

Ref Watchs Dermot Gallagher gives his verdict on Lee Masons departure from the PGMOL, Nick Popes red card, Roberto De Zerbis criticism of officials and much more!

www.skysports.com

 

[bubble07]

just seen the two goons clearly interfering with play, blocking Martinez view of Jorginho's shot at the weekend. Was that even checked?

What's annoying is that prick martinez didn't even complain about it. In those instances if the keeper went ape shit about it it could have changed the outcome. The fact he didn't complain must have made up their minds that he wasn't unsighted

 

[mr ashley]

What's annoying is that prick martinez didn't even complain about it. In those instances if the keeper went ape shit about it it could have changed the outcome. The fact he didn't complain must have made up their minds that he wasn't unsighted

In all fairness he’s more than likely distracted by the fact the ball has just rebounded off him and gone in.

 

[cliff jones]

What's annoying is that prick martinez didn't even complain about it. In those instances if the keeper went ape shit about it it could have changed the outcome. The fact he didn't complain must have made up their minds that he wasn't unsighted

probably feeling sorry for himself in the moment,
less likely given his persona that he quickly realised he was already on a yellow so didn't want another one for protesting too hard
if he was still on goal for them, they'd be complaining for seasons!

 

[bubble07]

In all fairness he’s more than likely distracted by the fact the ball has just rebounded off him and gone in.

But if he was genuinely unsighted then natural reaction would be to complain

 

[spursfan77]

There’s no way Oliver should be officiating this weekend after that handball cock up.

 

[Timberwolf]

Both the Kehrer and Sabitzer decisions were 100% incorrect.

1 - Sabitzer - How is any player allowed to raise their studs into the knee of an opponent and get away with it. Neville used the excuse of "he tried to pull away", which I don't agree with, however does that mean that he thinks it's only a red if he followed through & caused a severe injury to the player? Very stupid and totally bias commentary from Neville in this instance. It was an immediate red.

2 - Kehrer - The handball rule is now beyond ridiculous. His arm was not in a natural position, it wasn't planted to the ground supporting his weight and it stopped a pass through to a player who would have been through on goal. As blatant a handball as you are likely to see.

Both decisions horribly wrong by 4 different people across the two games.

I wouldn't even mind if the clowns were at least consistent about it.

Like I've seen some people online argue that Kehrer was pushed by Richarlison and hence it wasn't really his fault his arm was in that position since he was trying to balance himself. Watching it back I can kind of see what they mean, but regardless of that refs will give pens in this exact situation 90% of other occasions so why not this one? We've been punished loads of times for hand balls far less egregious than this one so how come Kehrer suddenly gets the benefit of the doubt?

Either the rules need to be made clearer or the VAR refs need to be much better trained on what does and does not constitute a handball so they're all on the same page.

 

[allatsea]

I wouldn't even mind if the clowns were at least consistent about it.

Like I've seen some people online argue that Kehrer was pushed by Richarlison and hence it wasn't really his fault his arm was in that position since he was trying to balance himself. Watching it back I can kind of see what they mean, but regardless of that refs will give pens in this exact situation 90% of other occasions so why not this one? We've been punished loads of times for hand balls far less egregious than this one so how come Kehrer suddenly gets the benefit of the doubt?

Either the rules need to be made clearer or the VAR refs need to be much better trained on what does and does not constitute a handball so they're all on the same page.

If he was trying to balance himself the palm of his hand would be facing the ground and it wasn't. Clear penalty.

 

[mr ashley]

I wouldn't even mind if the clowns were at least consistent about it.

Like I've seen some people online argue that Kehrer was pushed by Richarlison and hence it wasn't really his fault his arm was in that position since he was trying to balance himself. Watching it back I can kind of see what they mean, but regardless of that refs will give pens in this exact situation 90% of other occasions so why not this one? We've been punished loads of times for hand balls far less egregious than this one so how come Kehrer suddenly gets the benefit of the doubt?

Either the rules need to be made clearer or the VAR refs need to be much better trained on what does and does not constitute a handball so they're all on the same page.

We can say that the reason why the referees can’t apply the laws using var or on field is because the laws are too difficult if you like.
But they are paid professionals who are qualified to do this, just like any other profession.

But do you think that they’d get the decisions right if the laws were simplified? somehow I don’t think they would

 

[Timberwolf]

We can say that the reason why the referees can’t apply the laws using var or on field is because the laws are too difficult if you like.
But they are paid professionals who are qualified to do this, just like any other profession.

But do you think that they’d get the decisions right if the laws were simplified? somehow I don’t think they would

Yeah I don't have much faith in them.

Personally I think there's far too much internal politics among referees and they need to do a church and state separation between VAR and on-pitch referees. I bet loads of decisions are subconsciously affected by the refs not trusting certain other ref's opinions based on their reputations, or alternatively not wanting to upset the applecart and doubt the opinion of more senior referees.

Could be wrong, but hearing refs talk about each other in interviews after they retire, there's clearly a load of weird shit going on behind the scenes like in any workplace and I think VAR muddies the waters.

Maybe it's not possible to train a load of VAR specific referees without years of on-field experience, but personally I don't see why not. Most of the skills you require to be an on-field ref (fitness, communication, leadership, positioning) are either completely irrelevant or much less important for VAR. Meanwhile some traditional refs won't have any of the technical skills to be efficient at using VAR.

 

[mr ashley]

Yeah I don't have much faith in them.

Personally I think there's far too much internal politics among referees and they need to do a church and state separation between VAR and on-pitch referees. I bet loads of decisions are subconsciously affected by the refs not trusting certain other ref's opinions based on their reputations, or alternatively not wanting to upset the applecart and doubt the opinion of more senior referees.

Could be wrong, but hearing refs talk about each other in interviews after they retire, there's clearly a load of weird shit going on behind the scenes like in any workplace and I think VAR muddies the waters.

Just need to Mike up the refs so we can hear the conversations.
would provide the level of accountability everyone is looking for

 

[Timberwolf]

Just need to Mike up the refs so we can hear the conversations.
would provide the level of accountability everyone is looking for

Yeah bet there's a very good reason they aren't keen on that.

 

[mr ashley]

Yeah bet there's a very good reason they aren't keen on that.

Well then the rumours of corruption need to intensify then

 

[BorjeSpurs]

I've watched both MOTD and Ref Watch on Sky and I'm pretty amazed what the conversation have been about the Ziyech red card that VAR took away. MOTD said it was a shambles with how long it took and how he showed a red card after that long time only for him to go to watch it afterwards. Dermot Gallagher also says it took long but the most important thing was that the decison was only a yellow card which was correct in his opinion.

Most Spurs fans that watched the game on TV said the same thing. Attwell has a yellow card in his hand after Ziyech's challenge waiting to book him, but doesn't get the chance to show him the card due to the aggression from both teams. We can debate whether Ziyech's hand up in Emerson's face is a red or a yellow card, but to me it is not a debate whether it should be a card at all. With Attwell already deciding that the first challenge warranted a yellow card surely there is two bookable offences leading to a red card (one game suspension) as opposed to violent conduct and a straight red card (three games suspension).

VAR is not allowed to advice on second yellow cards, i.e. the ref is not allowed to watch VAR footage to see if a player should have got a second yellow card. It therefore seems to me that what screwed us yesterday was that Attwell went for a straight red instead of two yellows and therefore couldn't use VAR to change a straight red to two yellows.

I don't know whether above is the case but this was IMO the job of MOTD and Ref Watch to iron out instead of just looking at Zijech's hand and debating whether that act alone was worthy of a red or yellow. To make it further embarassing the ending narrative was instead that Emerson was 'pathetic' for being on the ground and whether he could have received two yellows haha.

 

[werty]

I've watched both MOTD and Ref Watch on Sky and I'm pretty amazed what the conversation have been about the Ziyech red card that VAR took away. MOTD said it was a shambles with how long it took and how he showed a red card after that long time only for him to go to watch it afterwards. Dermot Gallagher also says it took long but the most important thing was that the decison was only a yellow card which was correct in his opinion.

Most Spurs fans that watched the game on TV said the same thing. Attwell has a yellow card in his hand after Ziyech's challenge waiting to book him, but doesn't get the chance to show him the card due to the aggression from both teams. We can debate whether Ziyech's hand up in Emerson's face is a red or a yellow card, but to me it is not a debate whether it should be a card at all. With Attwell already deciding that the first challenge warranted a yellow card surely there is two bookable offences leading to a red card (one game suspension) as opposed to violent conduct and a straight red card (three games suspension).

Pretty sure he had the yellow out for Havertz.

 

[IfiHadTheWings]

Pretty sure he had the yellow out for Havertz.

He did, but not being funny Ziyech challenge was a yellow much more so then Havertz little nick at him (both yellows in reality but i don't think i have ever seen two yellows given to two different players for the same phase of play)