The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - The Will He or Won't He? Edition 24th July 2013
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
- Start date
- Status
kendoddsdadsdogsdead
Well-Known Member
- Aug 29, 2011
- 2,188
- 3,679
It never seems to be our fault though. That's what I'm sceptical about. I don't buy Porto got cold feet. If we had any intention of doing that deal we wouldn't have left it to two hours before deadline imo. If Porto didn't want to sell him they would of just refused our offer(if there was one) why bother sending the wrong paperwork on purpose. Lets be honest with ourselves that doesn't make any sense.
voxy28
Well-Known Member
- Jan 15, 2013
- 3,357
- 3,652
No thats a clause is NOT release clause - its a clause that will allow Arseal to talk with Suarez - thats my understanding.
Supposedly the Yanks Henry fella is now pissed off with Arsenal for their £40,000,001.00 bid...
Henry seems to have said - 'What do you think they're smoking over there at Emirates?'
John Henry commented on his twitter a/c
What do you think they're smoking over there at Emirates?
I think he is pissed.... so the bid is rejected. £55M, this is the asking price.
moomin
Well-Known Member
- Jul 21, 2011
- 1,950
- 2,899
today is the first "game" of the season, which means its the first early morning of the season for me, as i live in the states (on the west coast to be exact). i usually don't get a chance to be a part of the early pages of the ITK threads because they're done when im sleeping, but ill be here tonight up until the game starts to fight off boredom. 
it's currently midnight and i've just made myself a full breakfast + coffee to prepare. roll on 3 am.
it's currently midnight and i've just made myself a full breakfast + coffee to prepare. roll on 3 am.
arunspurs
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 8,836
- 35,649
remove the twitter thing before A&C comes with his ban stick
sunnydelight786
Chief Rocka
- Jan 7, 2007
- 6,075
- 4,243
Is that not obvious...?
$hoguN
Well-Known Member
- Jul 25, 2005
- 26,663
- 34,803
I think that is taking a very simplistic view of the difficulty of transfer negotiations. Sometimes the selling club will not do business at a reasonable price until the very last moment, we saw that with VDV. I admit it almost seems ineffable at times, but i'm sure there must be a reason.
voxy28
Well-Known Member
- Jan 15, 2013
- 3,357
- 3,652
Scott Spur
SC Supporter
- Aug 9, 2011
- 1,991
- 5,620
Trying to be positive..........there is a big difference between some of our other big deals that have fallen flat - most of them came as deadline day Levy Specials. This one isn't..........which for me is a big shift in policy and maybe seriousness.
kendoddsdadsdogsdead
Well-Known Member
- Aug 29, 2011
- 2,188
- 3,679
It's not though really, we're talking about grown ups in business. If they didn't want to sell him they would of just informed us they didn't accept our offer. Not gone for an elaborate ploy of sending wrong paperwork through on purpose so we would then run out of time to do the deal. Do you think that would really happen? You're right about late transfers but you very rarely see big ones so late in the day. I'm sure there is a reason for that.
greaves4FR
Member
- Dec 22, 2006
- 20
- 75
While things are quiet I'll state my case as a confirmed anti-Levyite, for a different reaction to landing Soldado from the Levy-worship A&C envisages.
I think on balance the deal will be done, at a guess probably Friday or Monday. And we'll be coughing up the extra. Two reasons:
1. Liverpool would have problems going for Soldado. Especially within the timeframe demanded by Valencia. Firstly it would mean admitting that they'll lose Suarez, which they don't want to do. Secondly they would want to agree the Suarez deal, and get the required price for him, before going for Soldado. Otherwise they'll be held over and barrel by the buying club. Thirdly buying Soldado as a replacement for Suarez does not actually make good sense for them. Even if he managed the same goal taally, which is highly unlikely, this would still not represent any kind of step forward for them. They would still need to make several expensive signings on top to really expect to have a chance of top four next season. While Top four must be the hope, there is no sign that it is their expectation, and they must realise that with the further strengthening of the current top four, and with us ahead of them and strengthening, getting back there is not realistically an immediate prospect unless they are prepared to really break the bank. That kind of spending would have had to start at the beginning of the window while there while the big targets were still available, so there is no chance of that being their plan. The only logical alternative is that they accept that top four will have to be a two or three or even four year target. Which means spending a large chunk of the Suarez money on a 28 year old who will only be at his best for that three year transition period and might need replacement just at the point where they're hoping to be ready for the final push, makes no sense.
2. We on the other hand are in a totally different position. Not only are we ready in terms of our current squad, for the final push, it is also clear that we have no choice but to make it now. A Soldado on top of keeping Bale, would represent a huge step forward for us,. Even more important from Levy's point of view, failing to get CL next year and failing to buy a player of Soldado's stature now can only be expected to cause a huge step backwards. The clear and present danger is Bale and AVB both leaving. They have apparently both been given confirmation/guarantees of our ambition. In theory we could possibly survive intact if we come fifth next season having at least gone for it, bought Soldado (and probably a couple more additions) and come close. But to bottle out of committing financially to this ambition at this stage, over such a small sum, would surely be disastrous. They would both be entitled to be disillusioned and look elsewhere. Yes we could survive losing Bale, if we spend the fee well, but It would leave everybody in no doubt that our stated ambitions are just words, and the board lack the will or the capacity to back them up. I don't believe that is the case, so I don't think Levy will be allowed to continue as before.
Which leaves the question of options: there are are very few left. Levy has boxed himself into a corner. After years of failing to find a bargain striker in the way several other teams have (michu, ba, benteke), for which he and the scouting system he has overseen must take responsibility, he now has no time to take the risk on an unproven quantity. And after years of wasting time pursuing high-profile targets with unrealistic offers that strategy now has nocredibility left. And where could he go from here? He would either have to spend more on someone like Martinez, or go back for Damiao with a higher offer and his tail between his legs. And he certainly can't afford to risk leaving it till the last moment this time.
Soldado would be great, but no doubt we would be satisfied with any of those three options. And all of them mean an enormous loss of face for Levy. Spending big on an older player with little sell-on value would be negating his previous policy and discrediting the philosophy he staked his reputation on. Going back for Damiao after dithering on the brink of three more ambitious signings would leave him looking like the transfer clown I am afraid he is (in other ways he may be an excellent chairman) . And would also be an implicit admission that he should have just got the job done in a previous window when we would have benefited more and has simply wasted the intervening time as regards the striker problem.
I think it's clear why AVB wanted Baldini: ie to further dilute Levy's influence in transfer dealings and reinforce the reality that Joe Lewis and the rest of the board have lost patience with Levy's previous strategy and are prepared to do things differently.hurrah if that's the case.
I think on balance the deal will be done, at a guess probably Friday or Monday. And we'll be coughing up the extra. Two reasons:
1. Liverpool would have problems going for Soldado. Especially within the timeframe demanded by Valencia. Firstly it would mean admitting that they'll lose Suarez, which they don't want to do. Secondly they would want to agree the Suarez deal, and get the required price for him, before going for Soldado. Otherwise they'll be held over and barrel by the buying club. Thirdly buying Soldado as a replacement for Suarez does not actually make good sense for them. Even if he managed the same goal taally, which is highly unlikely, this would still not represent any kind of step forward for them. They would still need to make several expensive signings on top to really expect to have a chance of top four next season. While Top four must be the hope, there is no sign that it is their expectation, and they must realise that with the further strengthening of the current top four, and with us ahead of them and strengthening, getting back there is not realistically an immediate prospect unless they are prepared to really break the bank. That kind of spending would have had to start at the beginning of the window while there while the big targets were still available, so there is no chance of that being their plan. The only logical alternative is that they accept that top four will have to be a two or three or even four year target. Which means spending a large chunk of the Suarez money on a 28 year old who will only be at his best for that three year transition period and might need replacement just at the point where they're hoping to be ready for the final push, makes no sense.
2. We on the other hand are in a totally different position. Not only are we ready in terms of our current squad, for the final push, it is also clear that we have no choice but to make it now. A Soldado on top of keeping Bale, would represent a huge step forward for us,. Even more important from Levy's point of view, failing to get CL next year and failing to buy a player of Soldado's stature now can only be expected to cause a huge step backwards. The clear and present danger is Bale and AVB both leaving. They have apparently both been given confirmation/guarantees of our ambition. In theory we could possibly survive intact if we come fifth next season having at least gone for it, bought Soldado (and probably a couple more additions) and come close. But to bottle out of committing financially to this ambition at this stage, over such a small sum, would surely be disastrous. They would both be entitled to be disillusioned and look elsewhere. Yes we could survive losing Bale, if we spend the fee well, but It would leave everybody in no doubt that our stated ambitions are just words, and the board lack the will or the capacity to back them up. I don't believe that is the case, so I don't think Levy will be allowed to continue as before.
Which leaves the question of options: there are are very few left. Levy has boxed himself into a corner. After years of failing to find a bargain striker in the way several other teams have (michu, ba, benteke), for which he and the scouting system he has overseen must take responsibility, he now has no time to take the risk on an unproven quantity. And after years of wasting time pursuing high-profile targets with unrealistic offers that strategy now has nocredibility left. And where could he go from here? He would either have to spend more on someone like Martinez, or go back for Damiao with a higher offer and his tail between his legs. And he certainly can't afford to risk leaving it till the last moment this time.
Soldado would be great, but no doubt we would be satisfied with any of those three options. And all of them mean an enormous loss of face for Levy. Spending big on an older player with little sell-on value would be negating his previous policy and discrediting the philosophy he staked his reputation on. Going back for Damiao after dithering on the brink of three more ambitious signings would leave him looking like the transfer clown I am afraid he is (in other ways he may be an excellent chairman) . And would also be an implicit admission that he should have just got the job done in a previous window when we would have benefited more and has simply wasted the intervening time as regards the striker problem.
I think it's clear why AVB wanted Baldini: ie to further dilute Levy's influence in transfer dealings and reinforce the reality that Joe Lewis and the rest of the board have lost patience with Levy's previous strategy and are prepared to do things differently.hurrah if that's the case.
$hoguN
Well-Known Member
- Jul 25, 2005
- 26,663
- 34,803
One of the big reasons is that the clubs involved in them are more then happy to pay a hefty sum so the deal gets done earlier, however Berbatov moved in a 30.75 million move to Utd at the last minute
. It just happens that way sometimes.The Moutinho failure was very odd. I don't understand why it happened, and I don't think many do tbh.
looklikemodric
Well-Known Member
- Jun 9, 2013
- 187
- 2,130
It was down to porto mate. They were changing their mind about selling moutinho hence the deal was so late.
It is very easy to blame levy which is the default option (I am not suggesting you are) but in that instance he did everything right.
same with valencia, if it was to fall through (I dont think it will) people will jump on levy even though the valencia chairman has clearly gone on his own mission through the media.
TheGreenLily
"I am Shodan"
- Aug 5, 2009
- 12,023
- 8,699
We can always put a paper bag with Soldado's face paint on it and make Defoe wear it and pretend we signed the player... Yes, yes?
cabinfever
Cabinfever's blue and white army
- May 14, 2004
- 1,931
- 2,013
I'm bracing myself for another rollercoaster of a day.
It's amazing how, despite positive vibes from multiple, well respected ITKers, it takes just one negative comment from a random twitterizer or unknown newspaper to have everyone on suicide watch.
Onward and upward......
It's amazing how, despite positive vibes from multiple, well respected ITKers, it takes just one negative comment from a random twitterizer or unknown newspaper to have everyone on suicide watch.
Onward and upward......
Austen Merritt
Member
- Jun 26, 2012
- 89
- 67
I for one am optimistic; we got Paulinho and chadli and it is patently obvious that we are going all out to get Soldado; if he has agreed terms then we have been given permission to speak with him, so we must be close on price, so it strikes me that all that remains is some fine tuning of the deal.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Sticky
