The Mauricio Pochettino thread

[shelfmonkey]

Maybe he wants to change the Club's history back to what it was in Bill Nich's day? Winning titles?

We've only won 2.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Ok, how about another angle. In Wengers final seasons, after 9 whole years with no trophies at all, Arsenal won 3 FA Cups back to back.
Was it enough? Do their fans really care? Would they keep their FA Cup win and be happy playing FC Carrierbag on a Thursday night in the middle of Nowhereistan?

A lot of their fans grew up watching their team win titles or won titles when they were already adults. They are and were in a completely different mindset to us. Personally I’d end up breaking both wrists if we won 3 FA cups in a row. I grew up watching us in the 90s managing to only just remember Gazza’s Semi final goal, for some reason I can’t remember the final. My highlights in those 9 years was Ginola (fair enough) and Allan Nielsens headed winner in ‘99. We as football clubs and fan bases are very, very different.

 

[rossdapep]

A lot of their fans grew up watching their team win titles or won titles when they were already adults. They are and were in a completely different mindset to us. Personally I’d end up breaking both wrists if we won 3 FA cups in a row. I grew up watching us in the 90s managing to only just remember Gazza’s Semi final goal, for some reason I can’t remember the final. My highlights in those 9 years was Ginola (fair enough) and Allan Nielsens headed winner in ‘99. We as football clubs and fan bases are very, very different.

Exactly. Myself like others are worried that whilst this period has been enthralling and thoroughly enjoyable what if it all falls away and we haven't won anything?

I've been happy to believe in the project and I've backed up Poch's comments about the cups in previous seasons but how long do we keep dismissing them for? Secondly, we have to realise that we are competing with City, United and Liverpool (all with healthy pockets) for the PL title and at the moment we are falling short and will continue to if something drastic doesn't change. So the next best thing is to aim for top 4 AND win cups, they don't have to be mutually exclusive, we can do both together.

 

[SugarRay]

Exactly. Myself like others are worried that whilst this period has been enthralling and thoroughly enjoyable what if it all falls away and we haven't won anything?

I've been happy to believe in the project and I've backed up Poch's comments about the cups in previous seasons but how long do we keep dismissing them for? Secondly, we have to realise that we are competing with City, United and Liverpool (all with healthy pockets) for the PL title and at the moment we are falling short and will continue to if something drastic doesn't change. So the next best thing is to aim for top 4 AND win cups, they don't have to be mutually exclusive, we can do both together.

That’s just it. We’ve gone out of three domestic semi finals in last three seasons. Still comfortably qualified for champions league at the same time too.

The proof is there that we can do it.

I will say we’ve left ourselves short this season though and are currently probably as bad as we’ve been in that same three year period when all are fit but that’s a different issue to a degree.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

A lot of their fans grew up watching their team win titles or won titles when they were already adults. They are and were in a completely different mindset to us. Personally I’d end up breaking both wrists if we won 3 FA cups in a row. I grew up watching us in the 90s managing to only just remember Gazza’s Semi final goal, for some reason I can’t remember the final. My highlights in those 9 years was Ginola (fair enough) and Allan Nielsens headed winner in ‘99. We as football clubs and fan bases are very, very different.

Exactly. Myself like others are worried that whilst this period has been enthralling and thoroughly enjoyable what if it all falls away and we haven't won anything?

I've been happy to believe in the project and I've backed up Poch's comments about the cups in previous seasons but how long do we keep dismissing them for? Secondly, we have to realise that we are competing with City, United and Liverpool (all with healthy pockets) for the PL title and at the moment we are falling short and will continue to if something drastic doesn't change. So the next best thing is to aim for top 4 AND win cups, they don't have to be mutually exclusive, we can do both together.

I'm 37 and barely have a real memory of our last FA Cup win.

We haven't been a cup side for almost 30 years. We have to get over that fact and the fact that the champions league does exist and it's far more important to the club than a domestic cup win.

We've seen this season our squad isn't strong enough to cope with 4 competitions. We drop the top players and we lose. We keep playing the top players and they end up injured. (37 different injuries this season according to Chris Sutton commentary- 37!)

Whichever competition we focus on causes us to slip in another/the others.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

If only we could haveJuande Ramos back and win the league cup while finishing halfway up the league, followed by the next season played 8 and have 2 points.
Halcyon days indeed.

 

[Phomesy]

and what will you name the liverpool way?

Well seeing as they haven't won anything yet I'd call it the "usually finishing beneath Tottenham despite having far more resources and wages way".

But I also think they've done exceedingly well in the last 18 months by identifying weakness and rectifying them. And by bringing on great young talent like Gomez, TAA and Robertson. Which is exactly what we've been trying to do and they should be commended.

 

[Phomesy]

We've only won 2.

Exactly.

 

[rossdapep]

If only we could haveJuande Ramos back and win the league cup while finishing halfway up the league, followed by the next season played 8 and have 2 points.
Halcyon days indeed.

Why do people keep bringing stuff up like this? Can we not be happy with top 4 but still be peeved when we pass up opportunities to win trophies?

 

[St José Dominguez]

I'm 37 and barely have a real memory of our last FA Cup win.

We haven't been a cup side for almost 30 years. We have to get over that fact and the fact that the champions league does exist and it's far more important to the club than a domestic cup win.

We've seen this season our squad isn't strong enough to cope with 4 competitions. We drop the top players and we lose. We keep playing the top players and they end up injured. (37 different injuries this season according to Chris Sutton commentary- 37!)

Whichever competition we focus on causes us to slip in another/the others.

This season isn’t really a fair judgement, as you say our injury issues have been ridiculous. My disappointment is more based on a consistent falling short in cup competitions.

I don’t care whether we’re a cup side anymore, I care about seeing us win something. Every fan knows how important the CL is to the club, from a financial perspective. Seeing us enter the top 10 richest clubs in the world this week I’m quite calm if winning the FA cup this year by playing first team players meant we missed out on top 4, we wouldn’t go bankrupt.

As fans say over and over us getting champions league has meant absolutely nothing in terms of signings. Also I personally do not think us getting top 4 or not this season will make a blind bit of difference who we hang onto or not this summer.

This may seem critical of Poch but I personally don’t understand why Lamela, Winks and Toby couldn’t have started today with Eriksen at least on bench. We act like our players are playing thousands of games more than others have been. If it all goes tits up in final weeks as all the players are injured then it serves the powers that be right for not investing into the squad in the summer and they’ll have to deal with losing that sweet sweet CL money.

 

[blackburn]

Its obvious that Poch has no interest in domestic cups or the Europa League, perhaps that comes from DL - who knows?

Its also obvious that our underbelly/back up is very weak. Interesting to see what happens between now and the start of next season.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Its obvious that Poch has no interest in domestic cups or the Europa League, perhaps that comes from DL - who knows?

Its also obvious that our underbelly/back up is very weak. Interesting to see what happens between now and the start of next season.

His requirements each season will be get top 4 now, sack off the cups if needed but get top 4.

It’s basically loops, you get top 4 get knocked out of the CL and fight to get top 4 so you can get knocked out of CL.

Also, you get top 4 to try and keep players happy, we haven’t enough quality in squad to win the league as we haven’t got the funds to invest but if we keep players we should have enough to get top 4. If we sell anyone we reinvest that money so we stay same level ish and likely get top 4 but don’t progress to actually win something. Then we get top 4 again so we keep the players but again we can’t invest to progress.

Problem is at some point all these guys will be either old or we will have sold them all off, maybe though we’ll have reinvested that money so we get top 4! And so on and so on.

 

[SugarRay]

His requirements each season will be get top 4 now, sack off the cups if needed but get top 4.

It’s basically loops, you get top 4 get knocked out of the CL and fight to get top 4 so you can get knocked out of CL.

Also, you get top 4 to try and keep players happy, we haven’t enough quality in squad to win the league as we haven’t got the funds to invest but if we keep players we should have enough to get top 4. If we sell anyone we reinvest that money so we stay same level ish and likely get top 4 but don’t progress to actually win something. Then we get top 4 again so we keep the players but again we can’t invest to progress.

Problem is at some point all these guys will be either old or we will have sold them all off, maybe though we’ll have reinvested that money so we get top 4! And so on and so on.

The problem, as we will probably see in the summer, is when we lose a really key player and we simply cannot replace him because in order to do so we’d need to attract elite talent. Elite talent doesn’t join us because they don’t want to settle for top 4 and CL knockouts as soon as it gets competitive, and even if they can overlook those two “negatives”, we don’t pay the wages they’d demand.

If Eriksen goes we are really going to struggle to get close to replacing him. We are already weaker this season than last season. It could descend in to a battle for top 4 this season but it’s definitely going to be a big ask next term. We could need as much as 4 proper first team players. I can’t see us coming close to doing that amount of business. Will be ‘interesting’ to see it all play out I guess.

 

[beats1]

If only we could haveJuande Ramos back and win the league cup while finishing halfway up the league, followed by the next season played 8 and have 2 points.
Halcyon days indeed.

So someone criticises Poch and its worth going to a total extreme by saying we should want Ramos back

Ramos whilst not a great manager or someone who could speak english was the only manager we hired who had won at a high level consistently

Poch has yet to develop a winners mentality, his record in the knockouts is poor and needs to improve. Mostly he does well against poor opposition before struggling against the better teams

 

[13VanDerBale13]

pissed me off with his comments after today ...

 

[St José Dominguez]

The problem, as we will probably see in the summer, is when we lose a really key player and we simply cannot replace him because in order to do so we’d need to attract elite talent. Elite talent doesn’t join us because they don’t want to settle for top 4 and CL knockouts as soon as it gets competitive, and even if they can overlook those two “negatives”, we don’t pay the wages they’d demand.

If Eriksen goes we are really going to struggle to get close to replacing him. We are already weaker this season than last season. It could descend in to a battle for top 4 this season but it’s definitely going to be a big ask next term. We could need as much as 4 proper first team players. I can’t see us coming close to doing that amount of business. Will be ‘interesting’ to see it all play out I guess.

In terms of getting top 4 requirement we’ve been doing great, I think we’ll finish 3rd this year. We’re not as good since Walker went but we’ve hit that top 4 target well, we miss Dembele a fair bit at times but again we’re up in 3rd. Poch is doing an unreal job in the league. This summer is definitely problematic though, I just hope Madrid don’t end up going for him and we convince him to sign on. Eriksen is irreplaceable. Problem is though we’ve got quite a few gaps to fix with a zero net budget, hopefully a Chinese club decide to buy Trippier for £80m.

 

[Johnny J]

The problem, as we will probably see in the summer, is when we lose a really key player and we simply cannot replace him because in order to do so we’d need to attract elite talent. Elite talent doesn’t join us because they don’t want to settle for top 4 and CL knockouts as soon as it gets competitive, and even if they can overlook those two “negatives”, we don’t pay the wages they’d demand.

If Eriksen goes we are really going to struggle to get close to replacing him. We are already weaker this season than last season. It could descend in to a battle for top 4 this season but it’s definitely going to be a big ask next term. We could need as much as 4 proper first team players. I can’t see us coming close to doing that amount of business. Will be ‘interesting’ to see it all play out I guess.

This is a big worry for me. By not improving the squad progressively, we are possibly putting ourselves into a position where we need to get replacements for Dembele, Eriksen and Toby in one window. Plus squad replacements for GKN, Janssen, perhaps Wanyama if his injuries don't resolve. And personally I would like us to go back to full backs who are all pacy and comfortable as wing backs, as that was a huge part of our game when we had Walker and Rose dominating both sides of the pitch.

 

[Phomesy]

So someone criticises Poch and its worth going to a total extreme by saying we should want Ramos back

Ramos whilst not a great manager or someone who could speak english was the only manager we hired who had won at a high level consistently

Poch has yet to develop a winning mentality, his record in the knockouts is poor and needs to improve. Mostly he does well against poor opposition before struggling against the better teams

Do you even read the stuff you write?

Ramos was getting us relegated .

Redknapp took the same team and got them to the Champions League.*

Pochettino took over and built a team that belongs in the Champions League.*

"Winning mentality"

I don't think you even understand what it means.

ffs.


*Neither Redknap nor Poch have won a "trophy" with Spurs unlike Ramos but only a complete fucking moron would prefer his League cup over what those other two managers achieved for this club. ffs

 

[beats1]

Do you even read the stuff you write?

Ramos was getting us relegated .

Redknapp took the same team and got them to the Champions League.*

Pochettino took over and built a team that belongs in the Champions League.*

"Winning mentality"

I don't think you even understand what it means.

ffs.


*Neither Redknap nor Poch have won a "trophy" with Spurs unlike Ramos but only a complete fucking moron would prefer his League cup over what those other two managers achieved for this club. ffs

I never said I wanted Ramos or a league cup over and relegation. I should have said winners mentality and not winning

Redknapp didnt take the same team to the champions league final. He brought about 4 strikers(Defoe, Keane, Crouch and then Ade), VDV, a fully fit Bale and etc.

Im talking about a winner mentality, Poch is a great manager but he hasn't developed that winners gene that people often refer to when talking about someone like Mourinho, Ferguson and etc.

However again you prove my point with your last sentence that people only think in extremes. So some people criticise that poch has been poor in cup competitions more specifically knockout rounds. Youre reaction is "Neither Redknap nor Poch have won a "trophy" with Spurs unlike Ramos but only a complete fucking moron would prefer his League cup over what those other two managers achieved for this club. ffs"

I highlighted that the manager who won a trophy with us under ENIC was the only manager prior to joining us who had won trophies consistently at a high level before he joined.

 

[St José Dominguez]

Do you even read the stuff you write?

Ramos was getting us relegated .

Redknapp took the same team and got them to the Champions League.*

Pochettino took over and built a team that belongs in the Champions League.*

"Winning mentality"

I don't think you even understand what it means.

ffs.


*Neither Redknap nor Poch have won a "trophy" with Spurs unlike Ramos but only a complete fucking moron would prefer his League cup over what those other two managers achieved for this club. ffs

Is knowing Poch has helped create a great team that belongs in the champions league while at the same time being knocked out of every cup competition we’ve been in every year meant to make us all feel good about the latest two additions to it this week?
We’re succeeding (top 4) and failing (trophies) every single year in my opinion, I’m tired of seeing the best Spurs sides I’ve seen in my lifetime fail every year. *Generic caveat of it could be worse*