The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[skiba]

I agree - but also disagree.

Levy and ENIC are definitely not taking money directly out of the club - via the stadium or any other mechanism at this stage.

BUT - they have effectively purchased a £1B stadium with no money out of their own pockets. The actual money spent on the stadium build, and real estate purchases, has come from Spurs, and the leveraged debt is based on Spurs revenue (and re-paid from Spurs revenue).

When ENIC sell the club - all of that equity that Spurs are building up - will go directly to ENIC. So, they are not taking money directly out of the club right now - but they will when they sell.



ETA - but I should add - it is "boring" because most owners would do the same. Some, would fund the stadium build/upgrades differently - as allowed by FFP, but your typical English owner would try to fund it out of Club operations if they could.

However much money Enic ‘indirectly’ take out of the club as you put it is totally irrelevant to me. They could sell for £1 or £100bn and it doesn’t make one bit of difference to us as a club.

I get people are pissed off that owners they don’t like are going to walk away with a ton of money when Enic eventually sell but unless you find a state or oligarch willing to sportswash their reputation any other owner will also be looking to ‘indirectly’ take money out of club by getting a return on their investment.

Whoever owns us will need money to compete and so the club generating as much money as possible from go karts and concerts or anything else isn’t a bad thing to me and doesn’t get me worked up like it does others. Like every other fan though I only care about what’s happening on the pitch and that’s where Enic are failing and deserve all the criticism they are currently getting.

 

[fecka]

However much money Enic ‘indirectly’ take out of the club as you put it is totally irrelevant to me. They could sell for £1 or £100bn and it doesn’t make one bit of difference to us as a club.

I get people are pissed off that owners they don’t like are going to walk away with a ton of money when Enic eventually sell but unless you find a state or oligarch willing to sportswash their reputation any other owner will also be looking to ‘indirectly’ take money out of club by getting a return on their investment.

Whoever owns us will need money to compete and so the club generating as much money as possible from go karts and concerts or anything else isn’t a bad thing to me and doesn’t get me worked up like it does others. Like every other fan tho I only care about what’s happening on the pitch and that’s where Enic are failing and deserve all the criticism they are currently getting.

This is how we're able to pay much higher transfer fees and wages than we used to, and also how we'll even have a semblance of a chance to compete in the future with the likes of United, Pool, Chelsea, Newcastle & City who are not only significantly more cash-heavy but all of them apart from Newcastle also have more revenue than us.

It also means that if we were to someday get new owners who'll be inclined to pump tons of money into the first team á la Newcastle or Chelsea, the club will be able to compete with the richest with relative ease.

 

[easley91]

I'm with you on this.
There are plenty of things to complain about with Levy but some people just rant about anything, seemingly without any thought.

It's a bit like the match thread tonight. Wading through all the negativity and the "he's shit" type stuff is exhausting.
There are times when criticism is deserved but more often than not, it's just people opening their mouths to let their belly rumble.

And this is my biggest problem. Criticised him for what needs to be criticised. Credit him for the good he has done (yes there are things). But don't blame every little thing or twist "facts" to suit an agenda.

Pretty sure I heard "we want Levy out" and "get out of our club" but then the side showed some fight and took over the focus of the fans (rightly so).

 

[yido_number1]

If nothing else this pressure will push levy to not fuck about in the summer.

He needs to stay the fuck away from the football team and back Munn and the new DoF to do the job.

All the talk of him lining up bargains makes me sick.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

Its a fruitless campaign to waste energy and time chanting for Levy to go. He / ENIC will only sell wen the right offer is made irrespective of all the negativity towards them

 

[spursgirls]

I just really hope that for tonight there are no boos...

But there were, at half time...

 

[Joe Bjorn Hotspur]

I was at the Levy / ENIC out protests for two hours in the rain before yesterday’s game and it was nice meeting everyone there as well as seeing the rabbi. The crowd peaked around 7 ish and although in the grand scheme of things it was a small crowd especially with it raining, it was a good start and they are organising far better than before. While they were setting up Talk Sport interviewed a few of the guys there and Lyle Thomas from Sky sports had a chat with the group as well.

ENIC out balloons were distributed to people going to the game (some of these made it into the ground) and for the Palace home game I understand the organisers will be trying to distribute purple and gold scarves.

Just thought I’d mention I had a chat with Chris Powell. He stopped out of curiosity, he said to me he was looking out for his friend who he invited to the game. He was so approachable and is such a decent guy, he apologised on behalf of the team for that shambolic performance against Newcastle as well as saying that it was embarrassing and as a professional there was no excuse at all for it. Also, he said that he totally understood and fans had every right to be questioning the owners.

Great guy and he said this club runs through the fans veins and you clearly want to know what direction the club is going in. His facial expressions were also telling (more or less nodded his head with that knowing look) when I said it’s one calamity after another with Levy. One fan had a say on how bad Sanchez is and with his dry wit Powell responded and said: he was our best player against Newcastle!

Hope he passed on my message to the team of show us all that you want to play for the badge, that you care and show some heart on the pitch.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Its a fruitless campaign to waste energy and time chanting for Levy to go. He / ENIC will only sell wen the right offer is made irrespective of all the negativity towards them

Yes we know that but being a passive fanbase suits nobody, the club need to be under pressure from the fans. Levy will not have liked one bit fans getting in his back like last night. If it means Levy accepting and truly stepping back and actually allowing Scott Munn to run things or the hiring of Nagelsmann combined with Rangnick to buy off fans then so be it.

The end goals doesn’t even have to be the removal of the chairman if the strategy is fixed. That’s being said I remember people at the time saying many of the same things about Sugar in that he wouldn’t leave, we have no idea how this will play out.

 

[Dunc2610]

I'm not Levy IN as it were, but do we not need to give him a chance to see if he actually lets Munn do what we THINK he's been employed to do. He's made the appointment, need to give him a little time to see if the leopard has changed his spots.

The hope of him leaving is fruitless, he won't leave unless ENIC sell, and as I understand it, they're not looking to do so. From an off field perspective he's doing well by the club, lets give him a chance to actually step back.

 

[Finchyid]

So now we're criticizing ENIC for financing the Stadium, an income stream, in the club's name with external loans that are then paid back by the club's revenue? Like literally any other company or club?

When ENIC sells they aren't taking money out of the club, they're getting paid for the valuation of the club, its revenue, sporting prowess, commercial value, etc. The stadium increases that value substantially, not only in terms of the increase in revenue it's generated both from footballing and non-footballing events, but also because it's an incredibly valuable property in itself. The fact is that the club's valuation has increased by several times since ENIC took over.

These lies about ENIC being greedy and taking money from the club with their grubby fingers are tiresome beyond belief. Yes, they are stingy at times and we're all underwhelmed by the way the football teams have been performing and set up for a few years. But please just stay to facts.

Thats something people find difficult to do

 

[Keith Morris]

levy will be delighted by that result mainly because it gives him more breathing space from us fans.
Can't believe how little the fans chanted Levy out.

Know him well do you?

 

[Gassin's finest]

Boos and chants won't bother Levy.

Empty seats however, will. No one buying shit Beavertown pints, will. Racks of un-sold overpriced, sweatshop manufactured replica kits, will.

You want to get a message to Levy? Speak the only language he knows and stop lining his pockets.

 

[Cavehillspur]

Anyone know what the attendance was last night, was there many empty seats?

 

[Albertbarich]

No men's manager
No director of football
No women's manager
Best player only has a year left on his deal
Tried to move the club to east london
Lowest wage to revenue ratio in the league
Highest page chairman
Highest ticket prices
Highest kit prices
One league cup in over two decades

Just some facts...

As for the argument about not taking money out of the club. Well if you see how Mr Levy's personal wealth value has skyrocketed since owning the club despite delivering just one third rate trophy in 22 years. So whilst it's true that he isn't taking dividends it's also true that he has used the clubs TV money which we would get irrespective of his brilliance to build infrastructure over trying to really compete which in turn means he builds him and the reclusive owners wealth rather than challenging for trophies.

Now you can be happy about that and there is certainly an argument that it is the sensible thing to do but being that in such a long time we have seen so little success beyond just trying to finish fourth to get into a competition we don't seriously try and win I think it's absolutely fair that football fans have had enough.

If you can't see the correlation between the ticket prices/his wages and even kit prices versus the wage to turnover revenue leading to the accusations of greed then I don't know what to say. For all the talk about net spend and buying players the true indicator of us to want to challenge would be to rip up the wage structure and he is never doing that. And you may agree with that but you should also accept others believe that until that changes we will never be a serious title challenging team.

 

[Mattspur]

Anyone know what the attendance was last night, was there many empty seats?

It was 61,586 according to the PL website.

I'm as ENIC IN is as they come, but didn't go last night and didn't sell my ticket. So I've done more for the ENIC OUT cause than pretty much every poster on here.

 

[Yantino]

No doubt I'm going to get absolutely blasted for this on here, but I have to make my point.

I think this petulant feet stamping by our fan-base (especially during matches) is pretty embarrassing. Like everyone else I recognise that the footballing side of things is in a complete mess and massive errors have been made. Levy definitely needs to step aside on the football side and allow football people the autonomy to run it themselves without any interference and it looks as though that has been recognised and changes are being made to address that.

But to not recognise where this club has come from and where we are now is unfair and shows either a short memory or no experience of watching how bad we were in the 90's.

Massive progress as a club has been made. Changes are required but this is not the way to do it IMO. The path to success is not a straight line.

 

[Wiener]

I was at the Levy / ENIC out protests for two hours in the rain before yesterday so game and it was nice meeting everyone there as well as seeing the rabbi. The crowd peaked around 7 ish and although in the grand scheme of things it was a small crowd especially with it raining, it was a good start and they are organising far better than before. While they were setting up Talk Sport interviewed a few of the guys there and Lyle Thomas from Sky sports had a chat with the group as well.

ENIC out balloons were distributed to people going to the game (some of these made it into the ground) and for the Palace home game I understand the organisers will be trying to distribute purple and gold scarves.

Just thought I’d mention I had a chat with Chris Powell. He stopped out of curiosity, he said to me he was looking out for his friend who he invited to the game. He was so approachable and is such a decent guy, he apologised on behalf of the team for that shambolic performance against Newcastle as well as saying that it was embarrassing and as a professional there was no excuse at all for it. Also, he said that he totally understood and fans had every right to be questioning the owners.

Great guy and he said this club runs through the fans veins and you clearly want to know what direction the club is going in. His facial expressions were also telling (more or less nodded his head with that knowing look) when I said it’s one calamity after another with Levy. One fan had a say on how bad Sanchez is and with his dry wit Powell responded and said: he was our best player against Newcastle!

Hope he passed on my message to the team of show us all that you want to play for the badge, that you care and show some heart on the pitch.

I admire your resolve but I do think your approach is futile and foolish. Levy and ENIC are unlikely to sell because of your campaign. Just being against something is rarely a good idea. It's not actually clear who, and mean specifically, you would like in place of ENIC or Levy.

One of the problems of Levy/ENIC turning THFC into such a successful business is that it's going to be very expensive. You do realise that the 'fit and proper' requirement for ownership of a club will afford us no protection (see Boehly and Newcastle as recent examples) and we, as fans, will have absolutely no say in who becomes the new owner.

 

[Monkey boy]

I admire your resolve but I do think your approach is futile and foolish. Levy and ENIC are unlikely to sell because of your campaign. Just being against something is rarely a good idea. It's not actually clear who, and mean specifically, you would like in place of ENIC or Levy.

One of the problems of Levy/ENIC turning THFC into such a successful business is that it's going to be very expensive. You do realise that the 'fit and proper' requirement for ownership of a club will afford us no protection (see Boehly and Newcastle as recent examples) and we, as fans, will have absolutely no say in who becomes the new owner.

So are you saying............. Be careful what you wish for?

 

[Albertbarich]

No doubt I'm going to get absolutely blasted for this on here, but I have to make my point.

I think this petulant feet stamping by our fan-base (especially during matches) is pretty embarrassing. Like everyone else I recognise that the footballing side of things is in a complete mess and massive errors have been made. Levy definitely needs to step aside on the football side and allow football people the autonomy to run it themselves without any interference and it looks as though that has been recognised and changes are being made to address that.

But to not recognise where this club has come from and where we are now is unfair and shows either a short memory or no experience of watching how bad we were in the 90's.

Massive progress as a club has been made. Changes are required but this is not the way to do it IMO. The path to success is not a straight line.

If you don't wish to be ' blasted' maybe don't accuse others of petulant feet stamping?

When I was a kid , pre Sugar the club was considered in the top five English ones, we have a history of glory, have had some of the greatest players ever to play the game, won trophies , albeit not as consistently as a man utd or Liverpool and have always been considered a big club. Scholar built a shit stand and nearly killed us and then Sugar came in and destroyed our reputation as a big club.

So if when you say appreciate how far we have come do you mean since ENIC's mate Sugar made a mockery of us? I mean they have had over 20 years now and I've seen our rivals trophy haul surge compared to us (remember when we thought the FA CUP was our competition?) and all we have to show is a pretty multi events stadium whilst currently being an absolute mess . And by the way ENIC haven't paid for the stadium, the football club have. ENIC aren't responsible for the income, the football club is because sporting rights for TV are ridiculous, that's not Levy's business genius at all. So I'm not sure where you think we have come? I personally refuse to use Alan Sugar as a base line for my club. I'll never forgive him for the absolute mess he made of it.

And a more pertinent question is you say this isn't the way to go about it but then what is? I keep seeing people agreeing that Levy needs to step back and it's not good enough but then judging and mocking those with the balls to try and do something about it. What's the alternative? For all the mocking I've seen of the movement and the fake arguments about how people would join them if they had a real unified agenda I've never seen one person who doesn't like the current movement suggest anything to effect the club.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I admire your resolve but I do think your approach is futile and foolish. Levy and ENIC are unlikely to sell because of your campaign. Just being against something is rarely a good idea. It's not actually clear who, and mean specifically, you would like in place of ENIC or Levy.

One of the problems of Levy/ENIC turning THFC into such a successful business is that it's going to be very expensive. You do realise that the 'fit and proper' requirement for ownership of a club will afford us no protection (see Boehly and Newcastle as recent examples) and we, as fans, will have absolutely no say in who becomes the new owner.

That arguement could have been used with Sugar or any owner before. It’s mostly likely if they did sell it would be some form of a mixed consortium. If ENIC did stay then it would be better for levy to either permanently remove himself from football matters or resign the chairmanship so it doesn’t even need ENIC to sell to fix issues in theory.

However with 2-3 paths to fixing from full sale, to Levy resigning to Levy stepping back none of that can easily be put in chants or protests. LevyOut is simply a catchy slogan to show the fans aren’t happy and want change. Chants in the stadium, protests outside, social media and MSM picking up the situation. All of this pressure potentially helps force the club to focus 100% on the team and fixing it.

simply saying nothing can be done, woes me is defeatist. It would be better now to fix things then in 1-2 season when Kane is gone and we are mid table or worse going like Everton.