The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[Stamford]

I've had a season ticket for over 20 years. I've sold my ticket for Wednesday because I'm so angry and fed up with the leadership at this club. I don't really see how we move forward unless they go ASAP

 

[RuskyM]

Anger's understandable because we're shit and we're sick of it, but I'm unsure what people thought Levy could have done differently regarding Conte/Mourinho. I'd argue the want to be seen "spending some fucking money" got us into this mess, as it's not like he's scrimped in that regard. People dig out Poch for his 2019 signings but we've spent loads since on players (€35m January '20, €110m 20/21, €95m 21/22, €177.9m 22/23, plus whatever Porro will cost) as well as paying ridiculous wages for two managers who were never going to work. Yes, you can say "but Bastoni, but Skriniar", but no team in the world buys everyone they want. The fact is neither Conte nor Mourinho did a good enough job with the tools they had - regardless of perceived gaps in the team, the team was still less than the sum of its parts.

This isn't a defence of Levy (although I'd still prefer ENIC to a petrolstate or someone like Boehly), it's just I'm not really sure what people want him to do. Well, I know they want to win something, but as the last few years have made abundantly clear, that's not as easy as it sounds. I guess it confuses me: I'm pissed because he's spent years and hundreds of millions of pounds on defensive managers in the hope of winning at all costs which has made us worse to watch and won nothing, but apparently people want him to do more of that?

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Anger's understandable because we're shit and we're sick of it, but I'm unsure what people thought Levy could have done differently regarding Conte/Mourinho. I'd argue the want to be seen "spending some fucking money" got us into this mess, as it's not like he's scrimped in that regard. People dig out Poch for his 2019 signings but we've spent loads since on players (€35m January '20, €110m 20/21, €95m 21/22, €177.9m 22/23, plus whatever Porro will cost) as well as paying ridiculous wages for two managers who were never going to work. Yes, you can say "but Bastoni, but Skriniar", but no team in the world buys everyone they want. The fact is neither Conte nor Mourinho did a good enough job with the tools they had - regardless of perceived gaps in the team, the team was still less than the sum of its parts.

This isn't a defence of Levy (although I'd still prefer ENIC to a petrolstate or someone like Boehly), it's just I'm not really sure what people want him to do. Well, I know they want to win something, but as the last few years have made abundantly clear, that's not as easy as it sounds. I guess it confuses me: I'm pissed because he's spent years and hundreds of millions of pounds on defensive managers in the hope of winning at all costs which has made us worse to watch and won nothing, but apparently people want him to do more of that?

No people want him to have a realistic plan. The backing was better than Poch but nowhere near enough for managers used to elite squads, Sanchez and Dier are not elite, it is at best the 4-6th best squad in the league

That is fine if we don’t have United, City, Chelsea cash. Follow the Arsenal route, get a sporting director and delegate all football responsibilities to him. Get a manager similar to Poch who can work and grow cheaper younger players into a monster attacking outfit over a number of seasons.

Getting a cheque book manager without a Chelsea sized cheque book in a league with clubs that can outspend us isn’t a plan, it’s not hindsight to say it was stupid, it looked it at the time.

Neither Jose nor Conte have ever proven themselves with mediocrity, they are only used to the best, that isn’t us and it wasn’t a good fit. Levy is 100% responsible for that, if he wasnt going to get an elite squad in a short space of time for Conte then it was never going to work.

 

[RuskyM]

No people want him to have a realistic plan. The backing was better than Poch but nowhere near enough for managers used to elite squads, Sanchez and Dier are not elite, it is at best the 4-6th best squad in the league

That is fine if we don’t have United, City, Chelsea cash. Follow the Arsenal route, get a sporting director and delegate all football responsibilities to him. Get a manager similar to Poch who can work and grow cheaper younger players into a monster attacking outfit over a number of seasons.

Getting a cheque book manager without a Chelsea sized cheque book in a league with clubs that can outspend us isn’t a plan, it’s not hindsight to say it was stupid, it looked it at the time.

Neither Jose nor Conte have ever proven themselves with mediocrity, they are only used to the best, that isn’t us and it wasn’t a good fit.

I agree with this - but at the time of appointing Mourinho, it seemed that people thought Poch was tapped out and we needed a "winner" to get us across the line. I don't think another younger manager would've been an easy sell to the fans, particularly after five years of a drumroll that led to silence. After Mourinho didn't work, we then did do the sporting director thing - it's just a) he picked Nuno (after Gattuso) and b) it turns out he's a crook. So then we get Conte as a way of smoothing everything over, but he's seemed to have one foot out the door from the start.

I agree with you that it's a bizarre way of running things practically, but at every turn it *does* seem like it's what the fans wanted. I don't have sympathy though - it's pretty much a straight line from the summer of 2018 to where we are now. The approach of a man who got complacent, assumed it wasn't his fault, and now he's desperately trying to get back to where he was.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I agree with this - but at the time of appointing Mourinho, it seemed that people thought Poch was tapped out and we needed a "winner" to get us across the line. I don't think another younger manager would've been an easy sell to the fans, particularly after five years of a drumroll that led to silence. After Mourinho didn't work, we then did do the sporting director thing - it's just a) he picked Nuno (after Gattuso) and b) it turns out he's a crook. So then we get Conte as a way of smoothing everything over, but he's seemed to have one foot out the door from the start.

I agree with you that it's a bizarre way of running things practically, but at every turn it *does* seem like it's what the fans wanted. I don't have sympathy though - it's pretty much a straight line from the summer of 2018 to where we are now. The approach of a man who got complacent, assumed it wasn't his fault, and now he's desperately trying to get back to where he was.

Jose I can kind of excuse, it was treading a new path, a gamble, one that seemed very risky at the time but I guess a role of the dice. Conte however was a known situation, his system is built around elite CB’s, at best we have one. That is not workable, when you use CB’s who are good passers to play through the lines and into wide channels but don’t have them barring Romero it won’t function properly.

Club has including loans probably 15 players that need to go, squad is a mess apart from a few positions like CM. How we are in a situation where Sanchez, Tanganga and Dier make up the backline often is a joke.

 

[Stamford]

Anger's understandable because we're shit and we're sick of it, but I'm unsure what people thought Levy could have done differently regarding Conte/Mourinho. I'd argue the want to be seen "spending some fucking money" got us into this mess, as it's not like he's scrimped in that regard. People dig out Poch for his 2019 signings but we've spent loads since on players (€35m January '20, €110m 20/21, €95m 21/22, €177.9m 22/23, plus whatever Porro will cost) as well as paying ridiculous wages for two managers who were never going to work. Yes, you can say "but Bastoni, but Skriniar", but no team in the world buys everyone they want. The fact is neither Conte nor Mourinho did a good enough job with the tools they had - regardless of perceived gaps in the team, the team was still less than the sum of its parts.

This isn't a defence of Levy (although I'd still prefer ENIC to a petrolstate or someone like Boehly), it's just I'm not really sure what people want him to do. Well, I know they want to win something, but as the last few years have made abundantly clear, that's not as easy as it sounds. I guess it confuses me: I'm pissed because he's spent years and hundreds of millions of pounds on defensive managers in the hope of winning at all costs which has made us worse to watch and won nothing, but apparently people want him to do more of that?

Your points are well made but Arsenal coming back from mediocrity to a league title puts any argument in favour of Levy and ENIC to bed. They had no champions league football and they still managed to out spend and out think us. They changed the people running the club, stuck to a plan and are reaping the benefits.

Everyone keeps bringing up City or Chelsea or Utd money but our neighbours are proving you can compete within your means and outside of the champions league.

 

[nedley]

Mourinho should have been sacked the morning after Zagreb, and when the trigger wasn't pulled then the only sensible time would've been the end of the season. It was a mad decision by Levy to sack him when he did.

Im not saying you're saying this but....

This whole narrative that we 'could have won' that final had Mourinho still been in charge is a load of horse.

We were never winning that final with or without him.

Granted Jose had a very good record in finals but he had NEVER gone into a final with such a poor, low on confidence and Ill prepared team.

I personally wanted him sacked earlier. Same with Poch.

I think Levy’s ability to make the calls at the right time is really poor.

 

[Nebby]

Your points are well made but Arsenal coming back from mediocrity to a league title puts any argument in favour of Levy and ENIC to bed. They had no champions league football and they still managed to out spend and out think us. They changed the people running the club, stuck to a plan and are reaping the benefits.

Everyone keeps bringing up City or Chelsea or Utd money but our neighbours are proving you can compete within your means and outside of the champions league.

They haven't won anything yet. And let's wait and see if they are able to sustain a title challenge over the next few years. Their win yesterday reminded me of us against Ajax, which ultimately led to nothing. They looked very, very nervous.

But if they do go on and win it, fair play to them. They invested in the right area - central midfield - which is something we have allowed to wither on the vine for years, and they play aggressive and attacking football.

 

[cliff jones]

Anger's understandable because we're shit and we're sick of it, but I'm unsure what people thought Levy could have done differently regarding Conte/Mourinho. I'd argue the want to be seen "spending some fucking money" got us into this mess, as it's not like he's scrimped in that regard. People dig out Poch for his 2019 signings but we've spent loads since on players (€35m January '20, €110m 20/21, €95m 21/22, €177.9m 22/23, plus whatever Porro will cost) as well as paying ridiculous wages for two managers who were never going to work. Yes, you can say "but Bastoni, but Skriniar", but no team in the world buys everyone they want. The fact is neither Conte nor Mourinho did a good enough job with the tools they had - regardless of perceived gaps in the team, the team was still less than the sum of its parts.

This isn't a defence of Levy (although I'd still prefer ENIC to a petrolstate or someone like Boehly), it's just I'm not really sure what people want him to do. Well, I know they want to win something, but as the last few years have made abundantly clear, that's not as easy as it sounds. I guess it confuses me: I'm pissed because he's spent years and hundreds of millions of pounds on defensive managers in the hope of winning at all costs which has made us worse to watch and won nothing, but apparently people want him to do more of that?

you still don't get it? Do you want to get it?

Stay out of football decisions. DoF receives a budget and autonomy to appoint attack minded coaches in the tradition of the Club, spending Arsenal levels of money (not unaffordable). Develop and buy in mainly young talent, making sure we have a squad that in prioritising fourth is also resilient enough to seriously cup run.

Oh and stop fleecing the fans, let the commercial stuff he's good at put ticket prices at an affordable level for most if not all, ensuring discounts all over the ground for kids and OAPs.

We want our Tottenham back.

 

[Stamford]

They haven't won anything yet. And let's wait and see if they are able to sustain a title challenge over the next few years. Their win yesterday reminded me of us against Ajax, which ultimately led to nothing. They looked very, very nervous.

But if they do go on and win it, fair play to them. They invested in the right area - central midfield - which is something we have allowed to wither on the vine for years, and they play aggressive and attacking football.

Whether they win it or not they have a clear philosophy and are leading a title race. We have neither. The point is you don't need oil money to do it if you have a plan.

 

[Japhet]

They haven't won anything yet. And let's wait and see if they are able to sustain a title challenge over the next few years. Their win yesterday reminded me of us against Ajax, which ultimately led to nothing. They looked very, very nervous.

But if they do go on and win it, fair play to them. They invested in the right area - central midfield - which is something we have allowed to wither on the vine for years, and they play aggressive and attacking football.

They also became much more of a force when they sorted out their atrocious CBs. We need to do the same as a top priority.

 

[RuskyM]

you still don't get it? Do you want to get it?

Stay out of football decisions. DoF receives a budget and autonomy to appoint attack minded coaches in the tradition of the Club, spending Arsenal levels of money (not unaffordable). Develop and buy in mainly young talent, making sure we have a squad that in prioritising fourth is also resilient enough to seriously cup run.

Oh and stop fleecing the fans, let the commercial stuff he's good at put ticket prices at an affordable level for most if not all, ensuring discounts all over the ground for kids and OAPs.

We want our Tottenham back.

But he hired Paratici to do that. He appointed Nuno. My argument isn’t that they’re doing a good job, it’s that by and large the decisions he’s made since the CL final are what fans were asking for.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

As long as ENIC owns the club, Levy's position is safe. He's too arrogant to step down, and Lewis will never fire him while he's making such tidy profits for ENIC.

Until someone comes along and buys the club, we're stuck with Levy. End of.

Lewis is not making tidy profits out of ENIC. They have posted losses over the past two years. Profit for Lewis will only be realized once the club is sold.

 

[RuskyM]

Your points are well made but Arsenal coming back from mediocrity to a league title puts any argument in favour of Levy and ENIC to bed. They had no champions league football and they still managed to out spend and out think us. They changed the people running the club, stuck to a plan and are reaping the benefits.

Everyone keeps bringing up City or Chelsea or Utd money but our neighbours are proving you can compete within your means and outside of the champions league.

This is fair, but I’d argue Arteta only stayed in his post because the stadiums were empty when they were losing every week. The main issue is we were doing exactly what Arsenal were doing seven years ago and didn’t capitalise, and after that failed we decided never to try anything again.

 

[Stamford]

This is fair, but I’d argue Arteta only stayed in his post because the stadiums were empty when they were losing every week. The main issue is we were doing exactly what Arsenal were doing seven years ago and didn’t capitalise, and after that failed we decided never to try anything again.

They actually renewed his deal in may last year when he had been on a horrendous run and many still called for his head. They had a plan and stuck to it and decided to risk it and spend the money. They also trusted him sending saliba on loan twice against all the wishes of the fans.

We won't spend that money when we are in the champions league let alone out of it. We won't properly bank managers and everyone on here is ready to riot over Spence who hasn't shown half of what saliba has.

ENIC and Levy need to go urgently

 

[thebenjamin]

On that basis the Premier League should only comprise of about 7 teams , have to wonder why the fans of Palace , Brighton etc turn up every week.

I suppose the counter argument to that would be they don't pay the highest ticket prices in the world

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Your points are well made but Arsenal coming back from mediocrity to a league title puts any argument in favour of Levy and ENIC to bed. They had no champions league football and they still managed to out spend and out think us. They changed the people running the club, stuck to a plan and are reaping the benefits.

Everyone keeps bringing up City or Chelsea or Utd money but our neighbours are proving you can compete within your means and outside of the champions league.

Liverpool as well, I know they dropped off this season but they have been so well run at least where very well run.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I suppose the counter argument to that would be they don't pay the highest ticket prices in the world

Exactly we are a big club, with a big stadium and the biggest ticket prices. I do sometimes watch lower league football, my expectations as well as my ticket prices adjust accordingly.

 

[the yid]

I've had a season ticket for over 20 years. I've sold my ticket for Wednesday because I'm so angry and fed up with the leadership at this club. I don't really see how we move forward unless they go ASAP

26 years I had mine, first year without it

 

[13VanDerBale13]

The phrase ‘less talk, more action’ is very applicable, when it comes to Levy himself & the fans ‘ousting’ him.