The ousting of Daniel (COYS)

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I actually think Everton, Villa are great examples of how we should look at them and really evaluate where we are compared tho these teams. We are similar to these teams 10/20 Years ago. Villa were ahead of us at the time I started following Spurs in the 90s. we have had sustainable growth and relative success over the last two decades. I have watched Spurs break the glass ceiling of top 4, when it was impossible, I have watched us mount title challanges built on strong youth. I have visited the best stadium in the world, where we have had truly world class talents, Bale, Berbatov, Carrick and now Kane. I watched Spurs in a Champions League final………. I can’t believe I ever saw that. Yes we didn’t win and we haven’t won trophies, yes we haven’t always spent the most or blown money on the worlds best. We have sustained solid growth more than any other team in the world Id bet without state funding……

I get upset with Levy, I get frustrated that he’s involved in transfers and sacked managers at the wrong point ( opinion), but I am actually Grateful for him, I am proud of Spurs, I am proud we are sustainable, I am proud we have the best infrastructure and are developing it further to increase our revenueThis is because this puts us in the position to compete with the best. Which chairman owners have sustained an upward curve over the 20/30 years in global football, Man U ? No… Arsenal? No. Chelsea? No. No one apart from Real, even Barcelona have failed..

I am not against complaining or criticizing Levy but really we Spurs fans let ourselves down really with the shortsighted fickleness. It’s why other clubs mock us……

Big picture we are in the right path and although it hasn’t been smooth all the time we are still moving up and forward, if we actually looked and didn’t sulk because Arsenal, after cocking up their amazing period in history, are finally mounting a title challenge they haven’t even won yet. We had two in the last 20 years compared to Arsenal’s first in 2023…..

I think Levy and Enic deserve to see where it goes while the overall flow is up before we demand better owners than the Oil backed or the Americans, even Liverpool are failing already……

COY, I guess their will be a fair few negs on this post in this thread but I think my points are valid…

Good post. Far too balanced and reasonable for this thread though...

Such a good point about the top 4 glass ceiling as well. In fact, when I started supporting spurs in the 90s we mainly struggled to even finish in the UEFA cup places. It wasn't until the Jol era, when Levy had put a strategy in place of having a DOF buying mainly young english talents that we started to progress. But even then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal were that top 4 closed shop - apart from a couple fleeting seasons of Leeds sneaking in there and then sinking like a stone because of financial mismanagement. Us, Everton, and Villa were the next knocking on the door. And obviously we eventually did break in for 1 season under Redknapp. But since then we have been consistently there or there abouts in the european places.

To be consistently challenging top 6 over the last 10+ years without being backed by a nation-state, oligarch, or the commercial revenues of establish elite clubs while our contemporaries like, Everton, Villa, Everton, West Ham etc.. have fallen away, and in some cases even been relegated, can't only be luck on Levy's part. Whatever you think of the guy to have such consistent growth can only be attributed to some good decision making. Of course there have been mistakes, but evidently there haven't been as many mistakes as the clubs i've listed or they would have seen similar consistent top 6 finishes like us.

 

[thp86]

Non-football operations don’t count towards FFP calculations. So no amount of Beyoncé concerts or hotels are going to help pad our FFP figures. Given that we’re already extremely conservative with regards to squad spending/FFP ratio, I wouldn’t hold out much hope for that changing.

The following taken from uefa website possibly suggests this would be counted as we are using our stadium to generate the income.


Examples of non-football operations related to a club (which are included in the calculation of relevant income):

• Operations based at, or in close proximity to, the club’s stadium or training facilities, such as a hotel, restaurant, conference centre, business premises (for rental), health centre or other sports team; and
• Operations clearly using the club’s name/brand.

 

[DFF]

The following taken from uefa website possibly suggests this would be counted as we are using our stadium to generate the income.


Examples of non-football operations related to a club (which are included in the calculation of relevant income):

• Operations based at, or in close proximity to, the club’s stadium or training facilities, such as a hotel, restaurant, conference centre, business premises (for rental), health centre or other sports team; and
• Operations clearly using the club’s name/brand.

Interesting. Do you have a link?
Edit: Found it, and you might be right!

https://editorial.uefa.com/resources/0274-14dc03ef33b9-3e2caa872860-1000/20220408_club_licensing_and_financial_sustainability_regulations_2022-en.pdf

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

If freehold property with huge yields on return doesn’t give you wood then all hope is lost ?

 

[McFlash]

The following taken from uefa website possibly suggests this would be counted as we are using our stadium to generate the income.


Examples of non-football operations related to a club (which are included in the calculation of relevant income):

• Operations based at, or in close proximity to, the club’s stadium or training facilities, such as a hotel, restaurant, conference centre, business premises (for rental), health centre or other sports team; and
• Operations clearly using the club’s name/brand.

Hmmm, that's rather interesting and pretty good to hear.

 

[spursfan77]

Good post. Far too balanced and reasonable for this thread though...

Such a good point about the top 4 glass ceiling as well. In fact, when I started supporting spurs in the 90s we mainly struggled to even finish in the UEFA cup places. It wasn't until the Jol era, when Levy had put a strategy in place of having a DOF buying mainly young english talents that we started to progress. But even then Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal were that top 4 closed shop - apart from a couple fleeting seasons of Leeds sneaking in there and then sinking like a stone because of financial mismanagement. Us, Everton, and Villa were the next knocking on the door. And obviously we eventually did break in for 1 season under Redknapp. But since then we have been consistently there or there abouts in the european places.

To be consistently challenging top 6 over the last 10+ years without being backed by a nation-state, oligarch, or the commercial revenues of establish elite clubs while our contemporaries like, Everton, Villa, Everton, West Ham etc.. have fallen away, and in some cases even been relegated, can't only be luck on Levy's part. Whatever you think of the guy to have such consistent growth can only be attributed to some good decision making. Of course there have been mistakes, but evidently there haven't been as many mistakes as the clubs i've listed or they would have seen similar consistent top 6 finishes like us.

I agree with all of that but I think the question is now, are they the right owners to push us on that final level? Do they have the finances to do so? Do they have the desire to do so?

Many think not and therein lies the problem. It’s where we need the clarity. It’s why I have no problem with Levy doing programmes like the one this week and why I’d like him to reveal himself more. Obviously Lewis isn’t going to do it, so it’s up to Levy to honestly tell the fans what the plans are and to what degree.

 

[Gbspurs]

The following taken from uefa website possibly suggests this would be counted as we are using our stadium to generate the income.


Examples of non-football operations related to a club (which are included in the calculation of relevant income):

• Operations based at, or in close proximity to, the club’s stadium or training facilities, such as a hotel, restaurant, conference centre, business premises (for rental), health centre or other sports team; and
• Operations clearly using the club’s name/brand.

I wonder if the 2nd bullet point is why we haven't been quick to sort a stadium sponsor. Using "The Tottenham stadium" for all the concerts and sporting events in undeniably linked to our brand.

 

[skiba]

I watched it last night. I do actually believe a lot about what he says about wanting success on the pitch etc. I mean why wouldn't he? It makes the club more valuable and if you've spent more than twenty years running the club, I can't believe that you wouldn't want to see it be successful on the pitch.

However what also struck was his lines about only one team being able to win and it being difficult. It just evoked a bit of a losers mentality and I just don't think you would hear such comments from chairman of the other top 6 clubs. I know it's difficult and only one team can win the league but I want someone who wants to be the best team in the country. He has strived to be best in class with facilities etc but when it came to talking about the team on the pitch it all felt a bit defeatist.

All we really got from him about the football was that the increased revenues will be invested back into the team to help us compete. Basically, we will make the money available to the manager and DOF to spend and then let's see what happens. If we win great, if not, well it's difficult. I want a change in ownership because I feel we need a fresh outlook from those at the top of the club and a different mentality. ENIC have put the foundations in place and am grateful for where we are now but to push on to the next level, we need a shift in thinking and mentality from those at the top.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I agree with all of that but I think the question is now, are they the right owners to push us on that final level? Do they have the finances to do so? Do they have the desire to do so?

Many think not and therein lies the problem. It’s where we need the clarity. It’s why I have no problem with Levy doing programmes like the one this week and why I’d like him to reveal himself more. Obviously Lewis isn’t going to do it, so it’s up to Levy to honestly tell the fans what the plans are and to what degree.

And that is a completely valid question.

What I would say is that by installing a DOF who demonstrably builds winning squads, and a manager who wins titles, Levy has made steps to take us to the next level. However, both of them have been at the club little over a year, and the stadium hasn't had a whole season of full capacity revenues yet in a post-covid world, so it's really too short of a period to make an informed judgement.

However, that next step will be done sustainably. Those that expect us to start spending freely like Chelsea, Man City or Man U are deluded. From everything that i've read it's more likely we position ourselves somewhere between a Atletico Madrid and Dortmund.

 

[DarwinSpur]

Typically Spursy if we ousted Levy for some Oil Slave outfit right at the time the footballing world decides to throw the book at them

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

Might just be me but the comms from the club does seem to have improved very slightly, it’s not perfect but it does seem to be a little more what we want to hear regarding actually getting over the line and winning trophies and improving our recruitment process etc.

I still don’t believe that there is a sustainable football plan in place right now and that is FP&AC left we’d be in trouble with Levy trying to re-structure the football side again but right now backing conte we seem to be slowly on the right track.

Will be interesting if the Levy out chants start again from the next home game or if this eases off again and the crowd get behind the team and Antonio for a positive end of the the season ?‍

I don’t mind if it eases off for now as some positivity in the grounds would be nice and it will be needed if we are to have a successful 2nd half of the season, it will then depend what happens this summer, if Conte renews and we properly back him early in the window with 5 or so he needs to challenge on all fronts next season then happy days for now, if he leaves and a new manger hire and player recruitment is a shitshow with no clear effective plan then 1st game of the season needs to be off the charts ? in terms of Levy out noise and movement.

Let’s see which way it goes, we are still at a fine tipping point.

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I actually think Everton, Villa are great examples of how we should look at them and really evaluate where we are compared tho these teams. We are similar to these teams 10/20 Years ago. Villa were ahead of us at the time I started following Spurs in the 90s. we have had sustainable growth and relative success over the last two decades. I have watched Spurs break the glass ceiling of top 4, when it was impossible, I have watched us mount title challanges built on strong youth. I have visited the best stadium in the world, where we have had truly world class talents, Bale, Berbatov, Carrick and now Kane. I watched Spurs in a Champions League final………. I can’t believe I ever saw that. Yes we didn’t win and we haven’t won trophies, yes we haven’t always spent the most or blown money on the worlds best. We have sustained solid growth more than any other team in the world Id bet without state funding……

I get upset with Levy, I get frustrated that he’s involved in transfers and sacked managers at the wrong point ( opinion), but I am actually Grateful for him, I am proud of Spurs, I am proud we are sustainable, I am proud we have the best infrastructure and are developing it further to increase our revenueThis is because this puts us in the position to compete with the best. Which chairman owners have sustained an upward curve over the 20/30 years in global football, Man U ? No… Arsenal? No. Chelsea? No. No one apart from Real, even Barcelona have failed..

I am not against complaining or criticizing Levy but really we Spurs fans let ourselves down really with the shortsighted fickleness. It’s why other clubs mock us……

Big picture we are in the right path and although it hasn’t been smooth all the time we are still moving up and forward, if we actually looked and didn’t sulk because Arsenal, after cocking up their amazing period in history, are finally mounting a title challenge they haven’t even won yet. We had two in the last 20 years compared to Arsenal’s first in 2023…..

I think Levy and Enic deserve to see where it goes while the overall flow is up before we demand better owners than the Oil backed or the Americans, even Liverpool are failing already……

COY, I guess their will be a fair few negs on this post in this thread but I think my points are valid…

Good post but tbh I don’t think that many on here are shortsighted and ignore the good work Levy has done in terms of steadily improving our league positions and with the stadium and training ground, he often gets credit for that.

The issue is his continual over involvement in the football side, as you say his mistakes in terms of manager hires and fires, timings, the people and set-up he’s put in place in terms of player recruitment, the lack of a coherent plan, the constant chopping and changing or scattergun approach and the overcautiousness to at times take slightly more of a risk to push us over the line to win rather than to be close but always the bridesmaid.

The recent statement mentioned we’d been in 14 semi finals and 6 finals in the last 20 years, that’s isn’t bad going and some of those losses were due to poor manager tactics, player selections, mentality etc and Levy cannot be held to blame for example our FA Cup Semi loss under Redknapp to an awful Portsmouth side which was a disgrace but a large number of these near misses CAN be put down to the football decisions meaning we don’t have enough quality and/or depth in the squad or a clearly aligned football philosophy and so when we do get deep into these competitions we fall short.

This is where a lot of fans feel so much frustration because if Levy had of not meddled in the football activities as much as he had and if we had more often showed a clear consistent plan and ambition to win I think we’d be sitting here with 2-3 more trophies and far more satisfied fans.

The question is right now in this stage of where we are as a club is he/ENIC the right people to push us on to win, that answer isn’t black and white, on past evidence the answer is no because the same mistakes will be made and so the same outcome will happen but if we do continue or back Conte and he renews then you never know.

Beyond just another trophy, after Conte I think we need to go back to hiring managers who play easier on the eye more aggressive pressing high possession football, which in this day and age will give us just as much if not more chance of continuing to try and win a trophy anyways and it will appease the fans want for better entertainment on the pitch which will in turn bring back a much more positive atmosphere which will in turn help drive the team forwards like it did under Poch.

COYS

 

[fishhhandaricecake]

I watched it last night. I do actually believe a lot about what he says about wanting success on the pitch etc. I mean why wouldn't he? It makes the club more valuable and if you've spent more than twenty years running the club, I can't believe that you wouldn't want to see it be successful on the pitch.

However what also struck was his lines about only one team being able to win and it being difficult. It just evoked a bit of a losers mentality and I just don't think you would hear such comments from chairman of the other top 6 clubs. I know it's difficult and only one team can win the league but I want someone who wants to be the best team in the country. He has strived to be best in class with facilities etc but when it came to talking about the team on the pitch it all felt a bit defeatist.

All we really got from him about the football was that the increased revenues will be invested back into the team to help us compete. Basically, we will make the money available to the manager and DOF to spend and then let's see what happens. If we win great, if not, well it's difficult. I want a change in ownership because I feel we need a fresh outlook from those at the top of the club and a different mentality. ENIC have put the foundations in place and am grateful for where we are now but to push on to the next level, we need a shift in thinking and mentality from those at the top.

Nailed it ?

 

[For the love of Spurs]

Typically Spursy if we ousted Levy for some Oil Slave outfit right at the time the footballing world decides to throw the book at them

probably more like our new oil owners would end up more interested developing the Tottenham area than the football and become a Levy on steroids.

 

[Wiener]

A campaign to change owners would, in my opinion, be futile and costly. Futile because the only one who can "oust" Levy is Joe Lewis and he is unlikely to be swayed by protests inside or outside the ground. Costly because it would further diminish the confidence of an already fragile team.

My gripe is that Levy has, since Mourinho, gone for a style of football which is the antithesis of what I consider to be our tradition. It ranks just below employing Graham as our manager, which was part of Sugar's decade or so of mismanagement.

The campaign I would support is for a 50+1 ownership structure (similar perhaps to the one in Germany) for all professional football clubs. It would require legislation so our MPs would ultimately be the ones to bring this change about. I would also support a campaign for the more rigorous and transparent enforcement of the "fit and proper" which would hopefully weed out the more dubious owners.

For those of us (not me) who have a visceral and personal and perhaps more political dislike of Levy, having to transfer (no idea how this would work) 51% of the club to fans would cost him dearly. So write your MPs, to the supporters trust and advocate for this as only those who live a democratic and free society can.

Below a link to the Bundesliga site explaining the "50 + 1" rule

Explaining the Bundesliga's 50+1 rule

Football in Germany is popular for many reasons: top-quality play, the highest average attendances in world football, low ticket prices and a great fan culture. A major contributing factor in this is the 50+1 ownership rule. bundesliga.com takes a closer look at exactly how and why it works...

www.bundesliga.com

 

[coy-spurs1882]

And that is a completely valid question.

What I would say is that by installing a DOF who demonstrably builds winning squads, and a manager who wins titles, Levy has made steps to take us to the next level. However, both of them have been at the club little over a year, and the stadium hasn't had a whole season of full capacity revenues yet in a post-covid world, so it's really too short of a period to make an informed judgement.

However, that next step will be done sustainably. Those that expect us to start spending freely like Chelsea, Man City or Man U are deluded. From everything that i've read it's more likely we position ourselves somewhere between a Atletico Madrid and Dortmund.

neither of them would win titles in Premier League

 

[cliff jones]

And that is a completely valid question.

What I would say is that by installing a DOF who demonstrably builds winning squads, and a manager who wins titles, Levy has made steps to take us to the next level. However, both of them have been at the club little over a year, and the stadium hasn't had a whole season of full capacity revenues yet in a post-covid world, so it's really too short of a period to make an informed judgement.

However, that next step will be done sustainably. Those that expect us to start spending freely like Chelsea, Man City or Man U are deluded. From everything that i've read it's more likely we position ourselves somewhere between a Atletico Madrid and Dortmund.

haha, just nowhere near as successful and charging fans multiples of their admission prices

 

[cliff jones]

Can anyone with a brain explain the loss Levy is presenting?

Did we make a >110m profit or not?

If we made a loss, how are we going to begin paying down 850m of debt?

Simple responses only please, without repeating the statement- which I’ve read.

Cheers

 

[Albertbarich]

He runs an investment company and is on record of saying football isn't a passion.

So why is he in no rush to sell? It's a question we should be asking ourselves because after two decades of promises we could easily see ourselves without a manager, DOF and star player in the summer as he still bangs on about FFP despite being so far below it he could buy another premier League club and still pass.

He's a magnificent businessman and property developer and the latter is the reason they're sticking around I think but as a football person he is a more sophisticated Sugar in that he resents the money it costs to build a successful team. But that's the world he is in. The money coming in from the crazy premier league has allowed him to build all this stuff so he shouldn't complain.

As a great man once said the game is about glory. If after all this we still can't compete maybe we should try and increase our income through glory, you sell more tickets , more shirts, more tat if you win stuff so maybe we try that as opposed to waiting 5 years for a hotel to earn us a couple of millon a year

 

[The Scarecrow]

haha, just nowhere near as successful and charging fans multiples of their admission prices

You do realise he's talking about where we want to be, not where we currently are?

As for the prices, you'll find that the beer is cheaper in those countries too.