The realism of a full rebuild

[dagraham]

Trix, do you think we are going to be able to do all the business required to be competitive next season, as Conte mentions not competitive for top 4 but for the title, we are miles off city pool and chelsea, squad wise we need about 10 players to cope with a season in whichever european comp we are in and a league title push cause the majoirty of the current team couldn't cope with the ECL and league now. Soo many upgrades needed

I don’t want to speak for Trix, but I’m sure the gist of his post was about managing expectations.

Everyone has a right to dream, but I don’t think you should even entertain thoughts about competing for the title.

 

[Rosco1984]

"Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season..."

"...at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August."

Trix, based off the above two quotes, if we fail to get Top 4 and as a result struggle to get in his preferred targets during the summer window, will he be content with lesser options considering that he's targeting the summer so that we're well set to challenge to his liking next season?

The whole will he leave if this or that happens is so boring. If he leaves he leaves just trust the fact Trix said he is happy and when Trix says we don't need top 4 for his plan to proceed does that not answer your question?

 

[Danny1]

Spot on. Looking at that starting lineup last night there are clear upgrades that can be made to Emerson, Sanchez, Davies, Winks, Hojbjerg & Lucas.

Now we have Dier, Skipp & Bentancur who will most likely take those places almost immediately, or as soon as possible & Kulusevski is a young guy that needs time to show what he can do.

If we get top 4 this year then I see that as a bonus, as I certainly wasn't even expecting us to get close when we had Nuno.

Also, a lot of our fans seem to think that we should always win every game against the lower teams, however our rivals this season have:

Man Utd - Lost 4-1 away to Watford, 4-2 away to Leicester, 1-0 home to Villa, 1-0 home to Wolves & Drawn 1-1 away to Burnley.

Arsenal - Lost 2-0 away to Brentford, 2-1 away to Everton & Drawn 0-0 at home to Burnley.

West Ham - Lost 2-1 home to Brentford, 1-0 away to Wolves, 3-2 home to both Southampton & Leeds and Drawn 1-1 home to Brighton & 0-0 away to Burnley.

Even Chelsea have only amassed 11 points from their last 8 games, with only 2 wins in that time period.

 

[Trix]

"Those of you that keep shouting about top 4, and missed opportunities really need to understand that was never the main aim. Of course we'd like it, and will be doing all we can to get there this season..."

"...at least give it the Summer window he's said from the start he needs. We will have up's and downs on the way, but we are on track for where Conte expects us to be come next August."

Trix, based off the above two quotes, if we fail to get Top 4 and as a result struggle to get in his preferred targets during the summer window, will he be content with lesser options considering that he's targeting the summer so that we're well set to challenge to his liking next season?

So are you assuming Conte has come in, assessed the squad as being miles off the pace and then we've set out a strategy to bring in specific players that are going to require CL football in order to sign?

 

[Tucker]

While I agree with everything you’ve said in your OP Trix, I still think we can get top four. Last night was poor, but it’s the exception rather than the rule of our current form.

People need to understand that league results don’t hang on a single result, not at this stage anyway. That’s only our second loss in the league under Conte and things are still in our hands. Shit happens, but I think we have a lot to look forward to in the second half of this season.

We just need to accept that sometimes we are going to throw in a stinker of a performance, but when has this ever not been the case?

 

[14/04/91]

‘Performances’ like last night from Royal, Sanchez & Winks in particular will only strengthen Conte’s hand when it comes to the summer window.

 

[chrisd2k]

That's all well and fine. However one of the active positions we are looking to buy in was just bought by FP for £20-30m.

Yes he was bought for a different position, but he doesn't look good in any tbh. Its too early for Dejan of course but people look at Emerson and worry.

I have concerns over FP. The farce that was the manager search was a joke. His talent spotting and the fact the whole point of a DoF position is that the club has a transfer strategy so that managers can come and go and it shouldn't matter. Emerson is an example of how it shouldn't work with the tail wagging the dog. We all hope AC is in this long term, however it's not a long contract and should he leave we could see massive changes again as the next manager might want to play a different system.

We have all heard this before as you alluded too which is another reason and with all the above its reasonable if you ask me so could we have a bit more respect than we don't understand?

Ta

 

[G Ron]

What is alarming for me is that with the exception of Romero our summer signings look like terrible business at this point. There are major question marks over FP for me as Gil is miles off being ready for the PL, I honestly see nothing in Royal, and Gollini hardly inspires confidence either. I’ll reserve judgement on the January buys, but I’d be worried that if Conte wasn’t in charge we would’ve made more poor acquisitions (there was talk he vetoed moves for a few players in January - not sure how much of that was BS).
We have to be better in the transfer market to really push on and I’m praying we start to get it right.

 

[13VanDerBale13]

CL qualification will have an impact on the summer I presume, both with Kane staying/going, & the level of quality of the incomings.

Either way, it needs to be a BIG window, as already highlighted.

 

[Japhet]

That's all well and fine. However one of the active positions we are looking to buy in was just bought by FP for £20-30m.

Yes he was bought for a different position, but he doesn't look good in any tbh. Its too early for Dejan of course but people look at Emerson and worry.

I have concerns over FP. The farce that was the manager search was a joke. His talent spotting and the fact the whole point of a DoF position is that the club has a transfer strategy so that managers can come and go and it shouldn't matter. Emerson is an example of how it shouldn't work with the tail wagging the dog. We all hope AC is in this long term, however it's not a long contract and should he leave we could see massive changes again as the next manager might want to play a different system.

We have all heard this before as you alluded too which is another reason and with all the above its reasonable if you ask me so could we have a bit more respect than we don't understand?

That's all well and fine. However one of the active positions we are looking to buy in was just bought by FP for £20-30m.

Yes he was bought for a different position, but he doesn't look good in any tbh. Its too early for Dejan of course but people look at Emerson and worry.

I have concerns over FP. The farce that was the manager search was a joke. His talent spotting and the fact the whole point of a DoF position is that the club has a transfer strategy so that managers can come and go and it shouldn't matter. Emerson is an example of how it shouldn't work with the tail wagging the dog. We all hope AC is in this long term, however it's not a long contract and should he leave we could see massive changes again as the next manager might want to play a different system.

We have all heard this before as you alluded too which is another reason and with all the above its reasonable if you ask me so could we have a bit more respect than we don't understand?

Ta

Name me a single successful club that hasn't made a whole load of duff signings. We're no different but many seem to expect us to hit the bullseye every time. It doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

 

[chrisd2k]

Name me a single successful club that hasn't made a whole load of duff signings. We're no different but many seem to expect us to hit the bullseye every time. It doesn't work like that I'm afraid.

Our strike rate is pretty low no?

 

[Ghost Hardware]

So are you assuming Conte has come in, assessed the squad as being miles off the pace and then we've set out a strategy to bring in specific players that are going to require CL football in order to sign?

I agree that is just unrealistic and Conte has made it abundantly clear how far behind our team is. Its not hard to deduce that Conte will hope for top four but will be realistic in his expectations thus so to will Paratici when it comes to targets. Its just that looking over ITK there have definitely been some saying how important top 4 is when it comes to acquiring certain targets or players of a certain caliber so its understandable why some are concerned about this point. I guess it might be a case of getting top 4 makes things easier not impossible, but people are obviously nervous because we do have some experience of loosing out on quality players to teams above us. Diaz and Vlahovic in January where a pointed reminder. Now i'm aware that it wouldn't matter if we had secured 3rd, Diaz would still probably go to Liverpool as they are far ahead of us in their development and essentially a bigger club and Juve, well, they are Juve, but I think some fans wont necessarily see it like that hence the concern. Its just a shame when some of this concern and frustration gets taken out on new signings, especially 21 year olds who are still very raw and playing in a new league.

In general i think people are just frustrated and i think many fans patience is wearing thin, you can feel it in the stadium, its rampant across the pages of this forum, even my local fish monger who's a Spurs fan is exasperated. I have never seen so many snide comments and bickering going on here so constantly in my entire time on SC, its depressing and exhausting as its been getting worse and worse for 3 years. But its also true that, as you say, there have also been some justified criticisms for certain performances, tactical choices and purchases made in the Paratici era, not everything has been going well. But i guess with any rebuild theres always going to be growing pains and as you say, its important to keep perspective. Summer and next season is when we will truly know what we have and until then we just have to swallow our pride from time to time and accept us for what we are.

 

[sammyj]

Respect your posts and look forward to your posts during transfer window but this was imo your most informative post , excellent ? reply

 

[Japhet]

Our strike rate is pretty low no?

Average I'd say.

 

[Jet]

I criticised them myself last night for the performance(first half especially). I even condoned the booing at half time. Had the crowd been on their backs all game I'd have not done so, but they did everything they could to lift the team first half and they just didn't respond at all. Letting the players know that wasn't acceptable was fair enough imo especially as they tried to again drive them on straight after the break.

That is not what I started the thread for though, it's about tempering expectation based on the players we currently have, and the process we are going through.

I'd be keen to have the opinion of someone in the stadium to corroborate something I thought I noticed with the crowd and players, albeit on TV.

Mind you I was watching the game with it being 4am and the sound turned a fair bit down, but strictly from an arm-chair perspective, it feels like Conte, with his ability to inspire but also with his demand for support, has created a weird dynamic in the stadium? The support was vociferous and I thought we were on the verge of starting to dominate the game around the time the Reggie chance and our first goal happened, but also the tail end of both halves, it sounded on TV like the crowd was starting to moan at every misplaced and/or unadventurous pass. Not blaming Conte for inspiring support of course, but it feels like he gets the crowd going and once that happens the crowd goes, for better or for worse. I think the boos at HT are linked to this.

What with some of our players being nice guys but absolute ice-cream puffs, I thought Winks, Sanchez and to a lesser degree Davies melted under the turn of the crowd. I strongly felt Davies' mistake for the goal in particular was more of a mental thing, you could see it on his face. It also seemed to me that PEH kinda gave up too, which was weird. Only Sonny and Reggie seemed to respond with increased effort.

Anyone in the stadium can shed some light on this or am I hearing things on TV?

 

[Dr Know]

Not much to add to what the OP said. I get the “we’ve been here before” as I’ve felt that way so many times it’s become a default feeling regardless of the changes we’ve made (DOF).

I guess this saying fits in with what we read on here everyday.
“You can please people sometimes but you can’t please them all the time”

COYS!

 

[Japhet]

I'd be keen to have the opinion of someone in the stadium to corroborate something I thought I noticed with the crowd and players, albeit on TV.

Mind you I was watching the game with it being 4am and the sound turned a fair bit down, but strictly from an arm-chair perspective, it feels like Conte, with his ability to inspire but also with his demand for support, has created a weird dynamic in the stadium? The support was vociferous and I thought we were on the verge of starting to dominate the game around the time the Reggie chance and our first goal happened, but also the tail end of both halves, it sounded on TV like the crowd was starting to moan at every misplaced and/or unadventurous pass. Not blaming Conte for inspiring support of course, but it feels like he gets the crowd going and once that happens the crowd goes, for better or for worse. I think the boos at HT are linked to this.

What with some of our players being nice guys but absolute ice-cream puffs, I thought Winks, Sanchez and to a lesser degree Davies melted under the turn of the crowd. I strongly felt Davies' mistake for the goal in particular was more of a mental thing, you could see it on his face. It also seemed to me that PEH kinda gave up too, which was weird. Only Sonny and Reggie seemed to respond with increased effort.

Anyone in the stadium can shed some light on this or am I hearing things on TV?

Davies mistake was because he tried to hoof it with his 'wrong' foot.

 

[Mr Pink]

Agree with everything in Trix's OP.

Only thing I wonder, is whether our targets are happy to come full stop or is it contingent on CL football...or maybe its not even clear.

I know we're a big draw with Conte and new facilities/London...

Just fear if we miss out we'll be shopping at a different 'shop' so to speak.

 

[Trix]

That's all well and fine. However one of the active positions we are looking to buy in was just bought by FP for £20-30m.

Yes he was bought for a different position, but he doesn't look good in any tbh. Its too early for Dejan of course but people look at Emerson and worry.

I have concerns over FP. The farce that was the manager search was a joke. His talent spotting and the fact the whole point of a DoF position is that the club has a transfer strategy so that managers can come and go and it shouldn't matter. Emerson is an example of how it shouldn't work with the tail wagging the dog. We all hope AC is in this long term, however it's not a long contract and should he leave we could see massive changes again as the next manager might want to play a different system.

We have all heard this before as you alluded too which is another reason and with all the above its reasonable if you ask me so could we have a bit more respect than we don't understand?

Ta

What I'd say to this is that yes, FP is the one who is identifying the players. Royal looks poor and it's a fair comment to question what FP's seen or not seen when we've brought him in. The counter to that is he is also the one who has idetified Romero who although raw looks to be an outstanding player in the making, and Bentancur who also looks very good, so he can do it.

The difference between when we bought Royal to now though is that Conte is here. So it's not just the case that FP is the one picking these players out, they also have to be approved by AC, which changes everything imo. There's a reason this window that bought Bentancur and only took Kulusevski on a loan with obligation only if certain criteria are met.

I think people are right to be weary of FP, not so much of Conte's ability to see if a player is right for him or not. The man literally leaves no stone unturned when it comes to detail.

 

[Moura_The_Explorer]

This is different though for so many reasons.

Another one we've heard before. We've had so many "game changers" over the last few years. The stadium, Jose, Paratici, Conte but we're still not seeing anything on the pitch.

To me it still looks like the club are doing absolutely everything to fool themselves into thinking they're a big club aside from actually improving the team and winning trophies. Big stadium, fancy training ground, world class managers on huge money but still the squad is barely of top 6 quality.

Maybe the ITK are right and this summer will be a big sudden turning point where the football team becomes a priority at this supposed football club, but in my head all I can see is a repeat of every other window I've watching this club try and painfully navigate through. We've been a "work in progress" since Poch left and if anything we're just going backwards.