The reality of no European football

[YB123]

We’ve literally not taken cups seriously for years now. That’s all to say really because everyone on here has witnessed it and knows it. I don’t want to be in the Conference League because it’s an admission you’re the ‘best of the rest’ but look at West Ham fans today, they don’t care they haven’t won a trophy in 43 years and now they have. I want a trophy.

Like I said, from the top down Top 4 achievement has been driven into the club and become the club.

You can bet Ange wasnt told to try and win silverware, it was get top 4 in next 2 years.

And when our fanbase were desperate for 8th, for what? They moan at the club and its mindset with cup comps, but they are the problem aswell.

 

[Trix]

We’ve literally not taken cups seriously for years now. That’s all to say really because everyone on here has witnessed it and knows it. I don’t want to be in the Conference League because it’s an admission you’re the ‘best of the rest’ but look at West Ham fans today, they don’t care they haven’t won a trophy in 43 years and now they have. I want a trophy.

When the clubs only priority is top 4 that'll soon pass down the ranks. Hoping Ange changes this mindset, and goes for it despite what the top table say.

 

[A Bit Much]

I don't mind us not winning trophies if we get beaten by top clubs, which tends to happen when we get to the business end of a competition TBH (only Pompey in the fa cup semi final years ago sticks out). But I do get very annoyed when we chuck away the opportunity by limping out to teams we should be beating.

I'm sure we could make a long list of times we've lost to teams we should beat in the fa cup for example. Same for Europa League. Sheffield United, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Leicester (when they were rubbish). We went out of the league cup to forest etc. Europa League we always went out to teams we should beat.

That is where things need to change - because I guarantee we would've won at least one of these competitions if we actually gave them a serious go. Attitude is the main thing - it's stunk for years in cups.

 

[Gassin's finest]

This all started under Redknapp, who treated the Europa League like something he found on his shoe. Poch was also dismissive of it too. Ever since then, there’s been a culture at the club that anything below the CL is a waste our time. Maybe those views came as a result of Levy’s pressure to achieve top 4, but it’s been a series of wasted opportunities.

The way the PL is now, you’ve got to manage your squad especially of you’re in the Europa early stages. But part of AP’s cultural reset needs to look at how we view those competitions too.

Thing with Redkapp... cup runs were always a "good day out for the lads". We should have cuffed Portsmouth in that FA Cup final under him. I liked Harry immensely, but he always had that "we never had it so good" mentality, if you know what I mean.

Poch... I always felt we could have won the Europa that season, and we took our eye off it because we thought we could beat Leicester to the title. I'll never forget that 3-0 against Fiorentina, and the 10 min Park Lane/Shelfside chant... something was happening that night, and we should have gone for it against Leverkusen. But ultimately I think he was driven by Levy on that one... focus on the league and top 4, get the bucks in for the new gaff, all that.

I dunno. We're a cup side. Always were. We only have, what, 2 league titles? But an absolute shit ton of Cup trophies. I want to go back to hearing "and Spurs win it again!" every other season or so.

 

[dbspurs]

Apathy to cup competitions runs through our club like a disease and it needs to change.

The ironic thing is that a European competition is actually easier to win now and than it was 20 to 25 years ago.

European competitions used to be for league winners, cup winners or you had to finish top 3.

Now, you can finish 7th or 8th. It's crazy how we have approached these competitions.

 

[YB123]

I don't mind us not winning trophies if we get beaten by top clubs, which tends to happen when we get to the business end of a competition TBH (only Pompey in the fa cup semi final years ago sticks out). But I do get very annoyed when we chuck away the opportunity by limping out to teams we should be beating.

I'm sure we could make a long list of times we've lost to teams we should beat in the fa cup for example. Same for Europa League. Sheffield United, Middlesbrough, Norwich, Leicester (when they were rubbish). We went out of the league cup to forest etc. Europa League we always went out to teams we should beat.

That is where things need to change - because I guarantee we would've won at least one of these competitions if we actually gave them a serious go. Attitude is the main thing - it's stunk for years in cups.

We can blame Players and tactics like Son vs Chelsea at LWB, Kane or Moura starting. But ultimately the disinterest in cup comps is Levy's fault because the focus is top 4. He views it as a personal trophy.

 

[he is you know!]

Some sketchy maths in Trix’s post there.

We have 34 (as he points out) but that includes Moura, Danjuma and Lenglet.

So it’s actually 31. Then you can add Lloris and Winks to players that will leave for little or no fee.

That takes us to 29 but includes 2 junior GKs in Austin and Whiteman. So assuming Whiteman leaves we’re at 28. If we want to add 3 new players then we’re back up at 31, so need to cull 6 more.

Ndombele, Tanganga, Dier, Reggie/Sess, Perisic and Rodon are the obvious ones for me.

Out of those I would say that all should be fairly straightforward to move on for the right (low) price.

It might be useful to have a proper update of the pre season squad in that pinned thread.

We start with 29 including Deki, all the players out on loan abroad and 4 keepers but excluding Parrot/Scarlett/Devine/White/Craig/John etc.

Lloris
Forster
Whiteman
Austin
Porro
Spence
Royal
Romero
Sanchez
Tanganga
Dier
Davies
Reguillon
Udogie
Perisic
Sess
Skipp
PEH
Sarr
Bents
Biss
Winks
Deki
Lo Celso
Ndombele
Gil
Richarlison
Son
Gil

 

[14/04/91]

With no European football next season, we have no excuses for not giving absolutely everything in both domestic cups.

 

[E17yid]

With no European football next season, we have no excuses for not giving absolutely everything in both domestic cups.

This is one of the main pluses to being out of Europe. I also think it will be one of Ange’s main positives, that he’ll go all out to try and win one of these. Will be helped by the fact he doesn’t have midweek European football to worry about.

 

[Shanks]

I’d take a Europe
Conference win over getting knocked out of the CL in round 16, every day of the week!

 

[robhumphreys]

For those who think the conference cup means nothing. This was Roma fans last year.

roma fans after winning conference - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[degoose]

For those who thing the conference cup means nohthing. This was Roma fans last year.

roma fans after winning conference - Google Search

www.google.com

yeah but they also really like Mourinho so i don't trust their judgement

 

[Cavehillspur]

When the clubs only priority is top 4 that'll soon pass down the ranks. Hoping Ange changes this mindset, and goes for it despite what the top table say.

Do you think Levy has said to some of the past managers to play weakened sides in domestic cup comps? Its been bugging me for a while and do wonder if he has been interfering in some way to try and ensure we cement top 4 instead.

 

[nidge]

The only Cup competition that makes any real money is the Champions League, is it any wonder the club top down never cared for any other Cup competition?

 

[djhotspur]

Just thinking about this.

From last season's squad we have already lost
Moura
Danjuma
Lenglet

I can see
Lloris
Perisic
Sanchez
Tanganga
Sessengon

All being released or leaving for minimal fees.

That's 8 players gone already.

Returning from loans I could see Winks being added to the second list and then we have

Lo Celso
N'dombele
Reguillon
Gil
Spence
Rodon
Parrott

I reckon Rodon and Reguillon leave for small fees. Spence gets a premier League loan, Parrott gets a loan or sold but his effect on wages will be minimal and Gil could get a chance or another loan.

That leaves lo Celso and N'dombele as the two major issues but with Lo Celso especially there will be options to either give another chance or someone will want him.

All very doable and with no focus we can focus on quality first team players rather than squad strength.

It's an opportunity for the new team

Regs and ndombele are my big worry. I can’t see anyone taking either. Big wages, terrible loans. I wouldn’t be surprised to see regs given a chance if he can prove his fitness. I get we have Davies as a back up but as he showed against Brentford he cannot do at job at LB.

even just moving on Moura, Lloris, winks and Perisic frees up a huge amount of wages.

 

[SUIYHA]

Would I rather have had the season West Ham have had compared with ours? Of course. But ours was a fucking car crash on every level. It's like if we were to get relegated and then win the Championship and have an open top bus parade for winning a "trophy" - I don't want to be competing for that trophy to begin with. It is a loser's competition for loser clubs - the equivalent of winning Employee of the Month at McDonalds - just highlights the fact that you actually work at McDonalds to begin with.

Will this help West Ham in any meaningful way? Do you think players are looking at their performance last night and deciding they want to be a part of that? Their star player immediately wants out. Are they winning new fans across the globe? Have seen people in West Ham shirts all over central London today but this will die down and everyone will have forgotten about this come the start of next season. It's a nice bit of fun if you win it but it's not a long term strategy to focus on.

Yes it's a "European trophy" but it's now downgraded what a "European trophy" means. Go back and name me the last five Europa League winners without looking it up. This one is even below that. Nobody outside of East London or Florence will remember anything about this in a year's time.

Priority list if we ever qualify for these competitions:

1. Champions League
2. Premier League
3. Europa League
4. FA Cup
5. League Cup
6. Conference League

 

[BENNO]

Do you think Levy has said to some of the past managers to play weakened sides in domestic cup comps? Its been bugging me for a while and do wonder if he has been interfering in some way to try and ensure we cement top 4 instead.

Honestly, you actually believe that might have been the case !

 

[alfie103]

Would I rather have had the season West Ham have had compared with ours? Of course. But ours was a fucking car crash on every level. It's like if we were to get relegated and then win the Championship and have an open top bus parade for winning a "trophy" - I don't want to be competing for that trophy to begin with. It is a loser's competition for loser clubs - the equivalent of winning Employee of the Month at McDonalds - just highlights the fact that you actually work at McDonalds to begin with.

Will this help West Ham in any meaningful way? Do you think players are looking at their performance last night and deciding they want to be a part of that? Their star player immediately wants out. Are they winning new fans across the globe? Have seen people in West Ham shirts all over central London today but this will die down and everyone will have forgotten about this come the start of next season. It's a nice bit of fun if you win it but it's not a long term strategy to focus on.

Yes it's a "European trophy" but it's now downgraded what a "European trophy" means. Go back and name me the last five Europa League winners without looking it up. This one is even below that. Nobody outside of East London or Florence will remember anything about this in a year's time.

Priority list if we ever qualify for these competitions:

1. Champions League
2. Premier League
3. Europa League
4. FA Cup
5. League Cup
6. Conference League

Why is winning more fans across the globe a priority when looking at what competitions to try and win?

If we can't realistically compete with Man City, Newcastle United, Chelsea, PSG, Real Madrid and Manchester United for the top titles, why bother trying to do so?

 

[Cavehillspur]

Honestly, you actually believe that might have been the case !

Who knows, Sherwood recently said that Levy stuck his nose in when he heard Sherwood was going to play Kane instead of Soldado.

 

[spursfan77]

Quite an interesting thread on how having so many English teams in European competition actually hurts the chances of the PL getting that 5th champions league spot from next season due to the coefficient being less as it’s spread out over more teams.