The Y Word

[riggi]

We stop using it tomorrow and the abuse will continue. The last lot of anti semitism from oppo fans hasn’t included the word or nazi salutes either.

 

[Mattspur]

We stop using it tomorrow and the abuse will continue. The last lot of anti semitism from oppo fans hasn’t included the word or nazi salutes either.

The abuse generally stopped quite a while ago. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve heard anti-Semitic chants in the stadium over the last decade.

 

[riggi]

The abuse generally stopped quite a while ago. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve heard anti-Semitic chants in the stadium over the last decade.

I’ve only heard one chant in the ground in the past 10 years. Not really the issue.

 

[Harrier]

Not chants but I’ve heard plenty of opposing fans use the gas chamber whistle as provocation, which has then been unanimously shouted down by the Tottenham supporters chanting ‘Yid Army’ back in solidarity.

In this context it’s meant as a retort to antisemitism.

It’s a very difficult and emotive subject, one of which I don’t feel qualified to offer a valid opinion on whether it should be banned or not.

 

[fortworthspur]

as a teenager living there I was a "fuckin' yank" to many english teenagers and my friends and I got into our share of fights (always outnumbered, btw) because of it. Still, the Y word doesnt offend me.

 

[mr ashley]

I’m not Jewish
I don’t associate the club as Jewish per se, as everyone I know who supports the club is not Jewish. In fact the only Jewish person/ Jew/yid I know is, in fact, an Arsenal fan.
I know. Terrible
funnily enough I’ve never talked to him about it, despite living next door and coaching together.
i don’t sing these songs, and I don’t teach my kids these songs.
I really don’t like the song (if you call it that) “Yidddddddaaaaaaaaarrrmaaaayyy”, But more because of how it gets yelled randomly on the high road etc, although I quite like the clever lyrics of the song “they tried to stop us”
But for me, what unites us is our love of spurs. We aren’t United by religion, or because we want to stand up for a particular race/ethnic group. At least I’m not.
We’re united by our love of the football club. (Although I recently got told off for saying that we were spurs fans first and foremost)
So personally I don’t agree that we need to keep singing the songs, and if it’s about standing up to racism then I think the best way to do that nowadays is to just point out the other fans despicable behaviour (think of the rudiger incident for example ) rather than try to get ahead of it by claiming a word that doesn’t even represent us all.

not looking to offend anyone, just offering my opinion

 

[Ray_Evans]

The abuse generally stopped quite a while ago. I can count on one hand the amount of times I’ve heard anti-Semitic chants in the stadium over the last decade.

Vitesse were at it when they came over recently.

 

[mr ashley]

Vitesse were at it when they came over recently.

They were the worst set of away fans I’ve seen in recent years. And coupled with the antisemitic abuse directed towards Ajax fans, the Dutch league isnt the place to look for anything positive about their supporters tbh.
Much like the most of Europe really.
France is all over the place
Eastern Europe? Backward in comparison

 

[ralphs bald spot]

it started in the late 70's early 80's when going to football was a million miles away from what going to football is today - it really has no place in modern football which in comparison is hugely sanitised to what is was

 

[Spurslove]

Not sure if something happened to get this thread bumped again, and normally I don't bother replying to this anymore but as the game's cancelled I'll say what I always say. As a Jewish fan - I encourage everyone to sing the word Yid at our fans and players - loud and proud.

There are two key points here. First of all the word itself. Some people may say it's "offensive". That may be true in context. But there are lots of words that we use every day that in other contexts could be offensive. The key here is the intention. And as long as the intention of those chanting in the crowd is specifically to mean something positive associated with Tottenham, then that's all that you should be taking from it. If you know full well that someone is not referring to you when they say something, but you insist upon making it about you anyway - then I'm sorry...but that's your problem, and it's a very egotistical, negative character trait to have. To the non-Spurs supporting Baddiels of the world who have such a problem with it - this is literally nothing to do with you.

But what about the history of the word? Even if it's used in a different context today, it comes from a bad place and might bring back bad memories for certain people that hear it. Even then - the history means we should sing it louder still. Because the reason Tottenham adopted the Yid nickname is something to be celebrated. It was, and remains, a protest against anti-semitism. Non-Jewish fans declared themselves "Yids" when opposition fans were trying to fight the "Yids", putting themselves in the firing line to protect the Jews in the crowd. It was something completely unique. Because practically evey other anti-racism protest throughout history has taken on the form of either "Leave me alone" or "Leave my friend alone". But this was different. This was "I am Spartacus". Tottenham's fan base could have distanced themselves from the Jews, or like the Chelseas and West Hams of the league, they could have gone after them directly - instead they used the Yid movement to protect them. And I'm proud of that fact - I'm proud that my club is the one that took the stand, and that the solidarity continues to be shown today.

I'm not trying to downplay the experiences of those that have genuinely been taunted with this word in the past, and yes I acknowledge that it may bring back triggering memories for some of a certain generation - although I'd argue that people of that generation that genuinely cannot tell the difference between contexts of where a word is used are few and far between. We as a society always seem to focus on negatives, on what's wrong with something, on why soemthing might, potentially be perceived to be offensive in a certain light. I ask why not instead celebrate the unity, the message, the songs and focus on the positives instead?

Well said that man. I couldn't agree more with your post and as a fellow Jewish Spurs fan, I have to say, I don't think people like Baddiel have any interest in the context in which we use the word. None. He says he understands it but I really don't think he does, because if he really did, we wouldn't have had to listen to him complaining for the last 10 or so years about the way we choose to identify ourselves with great pride and a sense of belonging, which is completely alien to his own misguided beliefs about us.

.

 

[DarwinSpur]

I'm not Jewish (in fact I'm not even English - I'm an ex-pat Aussie) - but I can say that one of the things that made me love Spurs was re-appropriation of the word "yid" in defiance of the anti-jewish racism directed at the Club and and its supporters because of associations real or imagined. I fucking love that my club would stand up to vile racism directed at the Jewish community and embrace that, Even if people like Nayim would prefer the Club to be disassociated with that community for their own, I'm sure, perfectly non-racist reasons.

I've always loved the chant of "Yiddo" to welcome new players or great players - or even fellow traveller supporters as a welcome to a tribe.

However...

We can't pretend this isn't an issue. As one Jewish Spurs fan I heard talking about the issue it's the things WE don't think of that have to be considered (and this by a Jewish Spurs fan who doesn't themselves have a problem with the use of "yid"):

If you're Jewish and utterly uninterested in Football and you're walking down the street and heard a bunch of drunk football fans chanting "hoo, hoo... WHO LET THE YIDS OUT?!" - what would you think? You'd be fucking terrified. There's no "context" being experienced here - just the experience of potentially being hunted by racists.

To be fair I haven't heard that particular chant for some time but you get the idea.

It's a very tricky issue as these always are. I don't think being a Spurs fan gives me the right to offend non-Spurs Jewish people by appropriating a racist slur I'll never actually be the victim of. Having said that neither do I want to give in to the likes of Nayim who want us to stop because they just don't like... Well, you know... Should be Chelsea fan really...

As with all things we should be led on this by the Community most affected. We know David Baddiel's feelings on the matter and I don't actually think his views should be dismissed because he's Chelsea. However there are (to Nayim's chagrin) many many prominent members of the Jewish community who are Spurs fans. They should lead the discussion with their community and us non-Jews should accept whatever consensus/lead they provide.

Onions.


Edit - my original post mentioned another poster implying and imputing motives and beliefs to them which were, quite simply, unjustified and wrong. I've edited the post accordingly.

 

[McFlash]

I'm not Jewish (in fact I'm not even English - I'm an ex-pat Aussie) - but I can say that one of the things that made me love Spurs was re-appropriation of the word "yid" in defiance of the anti-jewish racism directed at the Club and and its supporters because of associations real or imagined. I fucking love that my club would stand up to vile racism directed at the Jewish community and embrace that, Even if people like Nayim and Shelfwatcher would prefer the Club to be disassociated with that community for their own, I'm sure, perfectly non-racist reasons.

I've always loved the chant of "Yiddo" to welcome new players or great players - or even fellow traveller supporters as a welcome to a tribe.

However...

We can't pretend this isn't an issue. As one Jewish Spurs fan I heard talking about the issue it's the things WE don't think of that have to be considered (and this by a Jewish Spurs fan who doesn't themselves have a problem with the use of "yid"):

If you're Jewish and utterly uninterested in Football and you're walking down the street and heard a bunch of drunk football fans chanting "hoo, hoo... WHO LET THE YIDS OUT?!" - what would you think? You'd be fucking terrified. There's no "context" being experienced here - just the experience of potentially being hunted by racists.

To be fair I haven't heard that particular chant for some time but you get the idea.

It's a very tricky issue as these always are. I don't think being a Spurs fan gives me the right to offend non-Spurs Jewish people by appropriating a racist slur I'll never actually be the victim of. Having said that neither do I want to give in to the likes of Nayim and Shelfwatcher who want us to stop because they just don't like... Well, you know... Should be Chelsea fans really...

As with all things we should be led on this by the Community most affected. We know David Baddiel's feelings on the matter and I don't actually think his views should be dismissed because he's Chelsea. However there are (to Nayim and Shelfwatchers chagrin) many many prominent members of the Jewish community who are Spurs fans. They should lead the discussion with their community and us non-Jews should accept whatever consensus/lead they provide.

Onions.

Good post mate.

 

[mil1lion]

They're pushing to ban it again. I really think it's going to be incredibly difficult for fans to stop using the word and more difficult to police. Can't we just make a new word called yidd instead. Although I know Oxford added a definition to the word to include our use of the word.

Spurs fans warned over 'outdated' use of 'anti-Semitic insult' as CPS threaten criminal action

Tottenham Hotspur have been urged to take action over the "abusive and outdated" use of the word ‘Y--’ after the Crown Prosecution Service warned that supporters could now face criminal action.

uk.sports.yahoo.com

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

They're pushing to ban it again. I really think it's going to be incredibly difficult for fans to stop using the word and more difficult to police. Can't we just make a new word called yidd instead. Although I know Oxford added a definition to the word to include our use of the word.

Spurs fans warned over 'outdated' use of 'anti-Semitic insult' as CPS threaten criminal action

Tottenham Hotspur have been urged to take action over the "abusive and outdated" use of the word ‘Y--’ after the Crown Prosecution Service warned that supporters could now face criminal action.

uk.sports.yahoo.com

It's just silly, they'll never be able to stop it.

Are the club going to kick out tens of thousands of supporters? Of course they're bloody not. And how could they?

Are the police going to arrest and charge tens of thousands of people? And then the courts deal with tens of thousands of charges? Of course they're not.

 

[WalkerboyUK]

It's just silly, they'll never be able to stop it.

Are the club going to kick out tens of thousands of supporters? Of course they're bloody not. And how could they?

Are the police going to arrest and charge tens of thousands of people? And then the courts deal with tens of thousands of charges? Of course they're not.

You can’t charge someone for using it favourably about themselves - as our supporters do.
If you decide that it’s a legitimate offence for our fans to say/sing it, and enforce via arrests, then surely the same has to be done about the use of the N word and the way it’s appropriated in music, l and that would never happen.

 

[ShelfWatcher]

I'm not Jewish (in fact I'm not even English - I'm an ex-pat Aussie) - but I can say that one of the things that made me love Spurs was re-appropriation of the word "yid" in defiance of the anti-jewish racism directed at the Club and and its supporters because of associations real or imagined. I fucking love that my club would stand up to vile racism directed at the Jewish community and embrace that, Even if people like Nayim and Shelfwatcher would prefer the Club to be disassociated with that community for their own, I'm sure, perfectly non-racist reasons.

I've always loved the chant of "Yiddo" to welcome new players or great players - or even fellow traveller supporters as a welcome to a tribe.

However...

We can't pretend this isn't an issue. As one Jewish Spurs fan I heard talking about the issue it's the things WE don't think of that have to be considered (and this by a Jewish Spurs fan who doesn't themselves have a problem with the use of "yid"):

If you're Jewish and utterly uninterested in Football and you're walking down the street and heard a bunch of drunk football fans chanting "hoo, hoo... WHO LET THE YIDS OUT?!" - what would you think? You'd be fucking terrified. There's no "context" being experienced here - just the experience of potentially being hunted by racists.

To be fair I haven't heard that particular chant for some time but you get the idea.

It's a very tricky issue as these always are. I don't think being a Spurs fan gives me the right to offend non-Spurs Jewish people by appropriating a racist slur I'll never actually be the victim of. Having said that neither do I want to give in to the likes of Nayim and Shelfwatcher who want us to stop because they just don't like... Well, you know... Should be Chelsea fans really...

As with all things we should be led on this by the Community most affected. We know David Baddiel's feelings on the matter and I don't actually think his views should be dismissed because he's Chelsea. However there are (to Nayim and Shelfwatchers chagrin) many many prominent members of the Jewish community who are Spurs fans. They should lead the discussion with their community and us non-Jews should accept whatever consensus/lead they provide.

Onions.

Just read what you wrote.
Just for the record I am not anti Semitic, have never ever been either.
I leave it to the mods to decide whether such an outrageous slur against me is worthy of a ban
I have of course reported you, first time I've done this on a forum
You know I could report you to the police for what you just wrote. I won't but I am fuming I can tell you.
I hope you have the decency to apologize, but will obviously be putting you on ignore
I sincerely can't believe what you've just written, smh[/QUOTE]

 

[SpursTillIDie1882]

It's just silly, they'll never be able to stop it.

Are the club going to kick out tens of thousands of supporters? Of course they're bloody not. And how could they?

Are the police going to arrest and charge tens of thousands of people? And then the courts deal with tens of thousands of charges? Of course they're not.

Just go back to Wednesday match v Lesta, after the winner, all you could hear was " Yiddo Yiddo, Yiddo Yiddo" chant, technically they would have had to arrest every spurs fans that night

 

[CoopsieDeadpool]

Just read what you wrote.
Just for the record I am not anti Semitic, have never ever been either.
I leave it to the mods to decide whether such an outrageous slur against me is worthy of a ban
I have of course reported you, first time I've done this on a forum
You know I could report you to the police for what you just wrote. I won't but I am fuming I can tell you.
I hope you have the decency to apologize, but will obviously be putting you on ignore
I sincerely can't believe what you've just written, smh

Rise above or buddy, just like the YIDS have.

COYS. Yid fucking Army!

 

[McFlash]

Just read what you wrote.
Just for the record I am not anti Semitic, have never ever been either.
I leave it to the mods to decide whether such an outrageous slur against me is worthy of a ban
I have of course reported you, first time I've done this on a forum
You know I could report you to the police for what you just wrote. I won't but I am fuming I can tell you.
I hope you have the decency to apologize, but will obviously be putting you on ignore
I sincerely can't believe what you've just written, smh

[/QUOTE]
I know, right? Suggesting you should be a Chelsea supporter!
That's almost as bad as someone accusing Hank of being a Gooner the other day. ?

 

[ShelfWatcher]

Rise above or buddy, just like the YIDS have.

COYS. Yid fucking Army!

I'm still shaking with rage I can tell you. As many of you know I've been supporting this club for over 6O years. In the 60s I often went to home and some away games with a group of school friends. One of those was Jewish. I have stood with him and them at Chelsea and West Ham, supporting our club.
Indeed I sometimes went round his house with at various times Spurs West Ham and Man U friends
We played cards and his lovely mum used to bring us up coffee and sandwiches.