This Week’s Manager Watch: Ryan Mason

[Russ1201]

Allow be to fantasise a little with dramatic licence - Ryan wins remaining 6 fixtures: players are inspired; Harry & Ryan put their heads together and come up with achievable summer transfer targets; Harry becomes a player-coach and commits to spurs for life; Ryan is given the permanent role. Dof isn’t required as democracy has come to the fore - Daniel is so discombobulated by all the wrongs he’s presented on the footballing, he takes a physical back seat.
Spurs go on to win the league & CL. All of football is impressed by this new model, that teams across the globe take up the example.

Then I woke up

What medication you on, can you spare some for me?

 

[Snarfalicious]

Allow be to fantasise a little with dramatic licence - Ryan wins remaining 6 fixtures: players are inspired; Harry & Ryan put their heads together and come up with achievable summer transfer targets; Harry becomes a player-coach and commits to spurs for life; Ryan is given the permanent role. Dof isn’t required as democracy has come to the fore - Daniel is so discombobulated by all the wrongs he’s presented on the footballing, he takes a physical back seat.
Spurs go on to win the league & CL. All of football is impressed by this new model, that teams across the globe take up the example.

Then I woke up

With a sticky duvet, no less.

 

[spurs mental]

I think given the scale of the job we'd be mad to give it to him even if he absolutely smashes the last 6 games of the season.

We're at a really critical juncture as a club and if we don't get this next appointment right we could really screw ourselves long term. Giving the job to Mason based on an absolutely teeny-tiny sample size is too big an ask. Even high risk success stories like Arteta, Zidane and Pep were in their late 30s and had years of working as assistants and B-team coaches under the belts before being given the reigns.

I think he needs to go and learn the ropes and prove himself down in the Championship like Kompany has done, or a few seasons as the direct assistant to a world class coach, before I'd even consider giving him the job.

Don't disagree which is why I said I'd like him to get experience elsewhere, but we're such a mess right now, I can't genuinely see how much more harm it would do if he got the role permanently either.

The club needs a reset, he's been here most of his life, understands everything about the club, knows the history, loves the club and wants to be here, that ticks a lot of boxes for a lot on here alone.

He might be out of his depth, he might fail, but he's got enough experience banked now under JM and Conte to know what works and what doesn't.

We've gone for big names and it hasn't worked. Rolling the dice along with a new plan for the progression under a Spurs man might just be alright.

 

[fecka]

I think given the scale of the job we'd be mad to give it to him even if he absolutely smashes the last 6 games of the season.

We're at a really critical juncture as a club and if we don't get this next appointment right we could really screw ourselves long term. Giving the job to Mason based on an absolutely teeny-tiny sample size is too big an ask. Even high risk success stories like Arteta, Zidane and Pep were in their late 30s and had years of working as assistants and B-team coaches under the belts before being given the reigns.

I think he needs to go and learn the ropes and prove himself down in the Championship like Kompany has done, or a few seasons as the direct assistant to a world class coach, before I'd even consider giving him the job.

IMO this is the thinking that's led us to the point where we are funnily enough and likely why we've gotten managers like Mourinho & Conte that were never the right type of manager for us.
If Mason smashes the last games then why shouldn't he be in the running? He's got more first-team manager experience than Arteta when he took over (I'm aware that Arteta is in many ways a unicorn, but the argument still stands IMO).
If we find someone we believe in then I say let's go for it. Making it a make or break-situation will put enormous amounts of pressure on any manager, and likely create an environment that makes it even harder for said manager to succeed.

 

[HodisGawd]

Don't disagree which is why I said I'd like him to get experience elsewhere, but we're such a mess right now, I can't genuinely see how much more harm it would do if he got the role permanently either.

The club needs a reset, he's been here most of his life, understands everything about the club, knows the history, loves the club and wants to be here, that ticks a lot of boxes for a lot on here alone.

He might be out of his depth, he might fail, but he's got enough experience banked now under JM and Conte to know what works and what doesn't.

We've gone for big names and it hasn't worked. Rolling the dice along with a new plan for the progression under a Spurs man might just be alright.

Spot the problem in your argument.

 

[Meercat]

I have a massive amount of affection for Mase and have from early days when he dealt with those years of loans and loans and loans, and found a way to break through into the actual first team when so many others would have been written off, and made it all the way to an England cap. That was a kind of fairy tale of its own. I was gutted when we sold him, because I think characters like that, who have the lifeblood of the club flowing through them, get it in ways that lots of new signings just can't, and they are the ones who foster a club's culture and identity and pride, because like the fans, they get it.

After that injury to come back again, not as a player but as a coach and to build a new life and connection with the club was special. But all you have to do is listen to that Jake Humphrey's podcast where he talks for an hour about his life and you just know he's got it, and currently he is undergoing an incredible apprenticeship - learning from Jose, learning from Conte... these are no small talents to help shape you as a young manager in waiting.

My honest hope is that one day he is back as out manager and leads us out at Wembley again, this time bringing that illusive trophy home. It just feels like it's written, you know?

But it's come too early for him to take over now, I think, because the eventual and obvious failure in 18 months to break the cycle would break ties that have been in place for so long, with the eventual firing that would follow. One more world class manager at WHL for him to study from and work with, and I reckon he will make the step up. And the more I listen to him, the more convinced I am he will be great when he does.

 

[bigfrooj]

I listened to the Ryan Mason interview on Jake Humphrey’s podcast today. Very impressive young man, I have no doubt he’ll be a successful manager one day. Worth a listen if you haven’t caught it.

 

[Timberwolf]

IMO this is the thinking that's led us to the point where we are funnily enough and likely why we've gotten managers like Mourinho & Conte that were never the right type of manager for us.
If Mason smashes the last games then why shouldn't he be in the running? He's got more first-team manager experience than Arteta when he took over (I'm aware that Arteta is in many ways a unicorn, but the argument still stands IMO).
If we find someone we believe in then I say let's go for it. Making it a make or break-situation will put enormous amounts of pressure on any manager, and likely create an environment that makes it even harder for said manager to succeed.

Well Jose and Conte weren't the right type of managers but that doesn't mean we have to swing to the complete other extreme and pick the least experienced candidate by a distance in Mason. Interims often have a decent little honeymoon period/manager bounce and it would be a colossal gamble to use that as a basis to hire him off the back of a short spell as interim.

Arteta was working for years as the direct assistant to the most influential tactical mind of the past 20 years of football. Mason's worked under some top managers but he's 6-7 years younger than Arteta was when he took over Arsenal and hasn't had the same level of responsibility aside from 6 matches as interim. And even Arteta was a massive risk who took a long time to figure things out himself, making a lot of mistakes along the way and requiring incredible patience from the board not to get sacked multiple times.

I think there's a happy medium between the "big name proven winners" like Conte/Jose and a complete novice like Mason.

 

[EastLondonYid]

I know for a fact that the players respect Ryan.
Should he get the job full time?
No...way too soon

Will he one day
I think so.
He's a really top guy, switched on and very ambitious.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

I mean if we can't get Nagelsmann and have a good end to the season then maybe.

Still think he needs to leave Spurs and make his mark somewhere else before managing full-time with us.

Issue with even contemplating Mason is it would have to be dependent on him doing incredibly well over the rest of the season. Like near winning all of his games. And thus that would also mean we would need to hold off appointing anyone else in the interim. Personally i would hope whoever we are going to appoint gets done in the next 2/3 weeks. Thats probably very optimistic but still, if we are still adding name's to the shortlist in 6 games times then I would be very concerned. More so then I am already.

 

[southlondonyiddo]

This squad has been carried by Kane and to a slightly lesser degree Sonny, for 2/3 seasons now, on the back of elite coaches

Depending on what Harry does and the form of Sonny we’re fighting relegation next season

Let’s not kid ourselves about the amount of shit this clubs got itself into

No way can you give this clusterfuck to Mason, full time

 

[spursfan77]

I know for a fact that the players respect Ryan.
Should he get the job full time?
No...way too soon

Will he one day
I think so.
He's a really top guy, switched on and very ambitious.

Having your football career cruel taken away like he had must make you more determined as a coach or manager, even if he himself doesn't realise it.

I think because of that cup final his contribution when he took over last time is a bit skewed by the fans. I was at the Villa game and it was awful but most of the other games had no fans in the stadium, which couldn't have helped. I think he did well in the other matches. The final game against Leicester was a great performance as were the home wins against sheffield united and wolves.

He is still quite young to go away and take over his own team though. Different doing that at a club he doesn't know compared to us. Players might not respect him because of his age etc. He'd have to pick the club carefully.

 

[fecka]

Issue with even contemplating Mason is it would have to be dependent on him doing incredibly well over the rest of the season. Like near winning all of his games. And thus that would also mean we would need to hold off appointing anyone else in the interim. Personally i would hope whoever we are going to appoint gets done in the next 2/3 weeks. Thats probably very optimistic but still, if we are still adding name's to the shortlist in 6 games times then I would be very concerned. More so then I am already.

I doubt we'll make a move until it's mathematically impossible to reach the top 4 to avoid distracting the players even more than they already are.
It's of course possible that they'll be galvanized even further by news of someone like Nagelsmann as well.

 

[taidgh]

Surely we can't go in a month from "Mason's such a bad option we'd rather just keep Stellini on" to "Mason's actually better than Pochettino, Slot or Nagelsman", without him even managing a game?

Just watch us!

 

[Styopa]

This squad has been carried by Kane and to a slightly lesser degree Sonny, for 2/3 seasons now, on the back of elite coaches

Depending on what Harry does and the form of Sonny we’re fighting relegation next season

Let’s not kid ourselves about the amount of shit this clubs got itself into

No way can you give this clusterfuck to Mason, full time

I strongly disagree with your first point. We have a comfortable top half of the table squad, even without Kane. There's no way we should be anywhere near fighting relegation next season.

Admittedly, it feels like we are on a relegation trajectory now, but this season has been a complete shambles. Another coach should be able to get much more from this group than Conte did this season. Other managers are achieving much more with more limited resources at other clubs.

I agree with your second point about not giving it to Mason, though. It's too soon for him I think.

 

[C0YS]

Well Jose and Conte weren't the right type of managers but that doesn't mean we have to swing to the complete other extreme and pick the least experienced candidate by a distance in Mason. Interims often have a decent little honeymoon period/manager bounce and it would be a colossal gamble to use that as a basis to hire him off the back of a short spell as interim.

Arteta was working for years as the direct assistant to the most influential tactical mind of the past 20 years of football. Mason's worked under some top managers but he's 6-7 years younger than Arteta was when he took over Arsenal and hasn't had the same level of responsibility aside from 6 matches as interim. And even Arteta was a massive risk who took a long time to figure things out himself, making a lot of mistakes along the way and requiring incredible patience from the board not to get sacked multiple times.

I think there's a happy medium between the "big name proven winners" like Conte/Jose and a complete novice like Mason.

Hes had much more experience than arteta did before he was given the job at Arsenal, in fact about 2 years more experience coaching than Arteta. He has had less time as an assistent but more time actually managing teams, both the first team for a bit and youth teams. That doesnt mean Mason is the right choice, but his age is distracting and shouldn't really be a consideration.

Now, most coaches dont become good managers, but the PL has a particular aversion for this kind of thing. IN leagues such as Germany, Spain and Italy his appointment as a full time manager, if the belief in talent was there, wouldnt be seen as strange nor controversial.

He wont get the job, because the culture here is so risk adverse that it would require him to get much better results and performances than an established name, and at the same time he wont have the time to actually be able to implement any real footballing ideas. Now, that might be the right choice, the issue is that these sorts of decisions are kinda taken out of clubs hands, the perception in the PL from fans and media make it exceptionally more difficult for teams to select the right managers and in some cases the right players.

This isnt just in terms of promoting from within, but reluctance to give managers who have done a bad job in a previous role a job in another club, even though the context is different and that manager might be idealy suited to come into this new context. Same with players, a player performs badly or at a normal level at a club fans and media will pressure against their signing, even if the player is the perfect fit to play in the system and club culture. These issues are in part why the PL, frankly, underachieves in european competition and why teams such as, Southampton, are not as good as teams such as, say, villareal, despite having much better finances.

PL is a league dictated by vibes and fashion.

 

[mil1lion]

Not in the original message - but in announcing his staff, he was clearly labeled as Acting Head Coach.

Following the appointment of Ryan Mason as Acting Head Coach, we can now confirm Ryan's coaching staff.

Ryan will be joined by our former Academy player and coach Matt Wells (Acting Assistant Head Coach) and current Academy coach Nigel Gibbs (Acting First Team Coach), alongside Perry Suckling (First Team Goalkeeping Coach) and Gianni Vio (Set Pieces Coach), who continue their existing roles.

Should also label some of the players like that. Eric Dier acting defender. Hugo Lloris acting reliable.

 

[Trent Crimm]

Not in the original message - but in announcing his staff, he was clearly labeled as Acting Head Coach.

Following the appointment of Ryan Mason as Acting Head Coach, we can now confirm Ryan's coaching staff.

Ryan will be joined by our former Academy player and coach Matt Wells (Acting Assistant Head Coach) and current Academy coach Nigel Gibbs (Acting First Team Coach), alongside Perry Suckling (First Team Goalkeeping Coach) and Gianni Vio (Set Pieces Coach), who continue their existing roles.

You think levy has been shorting the next manager market on Skybet?

 

[MR_BEN]

When will the next manager thread get unlocked?

When A&C wants to….

So petty that it’s being closed…. The conversation (meaningless or not) just moves elsewhere and clogs up other threads.

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

Hes had much more experience than arteta did before he was given the job at Arsenal, in fact about 2 years more experience coaching than Arteta. He has had less time as an assistent but more time actually managing teams, both the first team for a bit and youth teams. That doesnt mean Mason is the right choice, but his age is distracting and shouldn't really be a consideration.

Now, most coaches dont become good managers, but the PL has a particular aversion for this kind of thing. IN leagues such as Germany, Spain and Italy his appointment as a full time manager, if the belief in talent was there, wouldnt be seen as strange nor controversial.

He wont get the job, because the culture here is so risk adverse that it would require him to get much better results and performances than an established name, and at the same time he wont have the time to actually be able to implement any real footballing ideas. Now, that might be the right choice, the issue is that these sorts of decisions are kinda taken out of clubs hands, the perception in the PL from fans and media make it exceptionally more difficult for teams to select the right managers and in some cases the right players.

This isnt just in terms of promoting from within, but reluctance to give managers who have done a bad job in a previous role a job in another club, even though the context is different and that manager might be idealy suited to come into this new context. Same with players, a player performs badly or at a normal level at a club fans and media will pressure against their signing, even if the player is the perfect fit to play in the system and club culture. These issues are in part why the PL, frankly, underachieves in european competition and why teams such as, Southampton, are not as good as teams such as, say, villareal, despite having much better finances.

PL is a league dictated by vibes and fashion.

Good post. I agree with a lot you say. Both managers and players are written off too easily without taking into consideration context or the fact that such experiences might help them grow and improve.