Time for a change of formation!

[Ghost Hardware]

I like 4231 and given the options we have in midfield i cant see a reason it shouldn't work for us. Saying that i haven't actually seen a line up from AVB this season that has made the most of it. Attacking mids of Lamela, Eriksen, Townsend, Chadli with Sig and Lennon as back ups and central mid roster of Sandro, Dembele, Capoue, Paulinho and Hotlby, all toped of with Soldado, Ade and Defoe would be most mangers wet dream. Ok, we are missing a game changing player in the vain of Saurez, Ozil, Aguero, Mata etc but even so, thats one hell of a midfield/attack. But despite the wealth of creative players we have AVB seems to go for the most flat option and has done so from day 1 of this season. I would just like to see AVB go for it now with a midfield of Townsend right, Lamela centre and Chadli left and stick with it for a few games. All those players can interchange and are very good on the ball. At home play Holtby alongside Capoue or Sandro and away games swap him for Dembele. I really dont think the formation is the problem but the players he picks and the positions he puts them in is. Playing Lamela out of position on the left, starting Lennon even though he hasnt done anything remarkable this season and giving Kaboul his first PL start in 15 months against City is madness.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

That's a pretty simplistic approach. We are being hampered by a few things; slow use of the ball. Slow (to none) and predictable movement or token movement which doesn't really stretch or move the opposition's defensive players around, and one paced players lacking wit/cuteness in key areas.

Of what i have seen, the players capable of playing a passing based possession game and still creating openings are
Lamela and Eriksen. They seem to be the only two capable of quick progressive one touch play and invention around the box. Siggy and Holtby can also do these things but they are hampered by a lack of other attributes (pace, mobility and stamina) but all of these are still reliant on players around them moving into space.

I think the pedestrian movement is our biggest killer at the moment. We are just to easy to close down and shut up against. In games where we have moved the ball quicker there have been at least the threat of tiring out the opposition to create later in the game, but in our last couple of games we have killed ourselves with early errors leading to goals which hardened the resolve of the teams defensively and meant we in turn had to take more risks.

If the player on the ball can have 2-3 options it makes so much difference, but how many players do we see (when we are in good possession) actively moving/hunting for the ball to be played to them? everyone's just standing on their marker or we may get a token spin and run down the line from Lennon. It's not good enough. we need some unselfish 3rd man running.

Spot on, which is why I believe changing formation will make little to difference to us if we play the same style as we have been all season.

The reality is if you move the ball well enough most systems can be successful, if you look at the size of our squad and every players individual attributes there's no way that i believe we don't have the players to play 4231/433 or 442 for that matter.

It's the speed of which we're moving the ball and the lack of any movement that's the root cause of our problems imo. Anybody see Fraiser Campbell's goal yesterday? One pass from their defensive midfielder to some guy that drifted in behind the midfield, Campbell made the run and a touch and pass later and he was through on goal. 9 times out of 10 we pass too slow to score a goal like this.

 

[idontgetit]

Not with our players it's not, please tell me where our creativity and goals will come from in a 433?

Lamela, Townsend and Soldado. Holtby/Eriskon will be freed up to be a creative centre point, Sandro or Capoue will sit in front of the defence and free up the fullbacks and other midfielders to get up the pitch. I can write you an entire essay on why this will work if you want. We don't have the central midfielders to play 4-4-2, the forwards will get very isolated, the time spent learning our pressing game will be wasted and we'll have gone backwards from what we had 4 years ago.

 

[idontgetit]

I like 4231 and given the options we have in midfield i cant see a reason it shouldn't work for us. Saying that i haven't actually seen a line up from AVB this season that has made the most of it. Attacking mids of Lamela, Eriksen, Townsend, Chadli with Sig and Lennon as back ups and central mid roster of Sandro, Dembele, Capoue, Paulinho and Hotlby, all toped of with Soldado, Ade and Defoe would be most mangers wet dream. Ok, we are missing a game changing player in the vain of Saurez, Ozil, Aguero, Mata etc but even so, thats one hell of a midfield/attack. But despite the wealth of creative players we have AVB seems to go for the most flat option and has done so from day 1 of this season. I would just like to see AVB go for it now with a midfield of Townsend right, Lamela centre and Chadli left and stick with it for a few games. All those players can interchange and are very good on the ball. At home play Holtby alongside Capoue or Sandro and away games swap him Dembele. I really dont think the formation is the problem but the players he picks and the positions he puts them in is. Playing Lamela out of position on the left, starting Lennon even though he hasnt done anything remarkable this season and giving Kaboul his first PL start in 15 months against City is madness.

Every other team has creative passers in the deep. Who's our Toure, Arteta, Carrick, Barry, Alonso, Modric etc etc etc. For some reason AVB thinks you need 11 beasts to play a high tempo pressing game, maybe Arsenal and Barcelona have got it all wrong

 

[Legend10]

Lamela, Townsend and Soldado. Holtby/Eriskon will be freed up to be a creative centre point, Sandro or Capoue will sit in front of the defence and free up the fullbacks and other midfielders to get up the pitch. I can write you an entire essay on why this will work if you want. We don't have the central midfielders to play 4-4-2, the forwards will get very isolated, the time spent learning our pressing game will be wasted and we'll have gone backwards from what we had 4 years ago.

Please write an essay because I don't agree with any of that!

Gone backwards what are you even talking about?

Swap Lamela for Siggy or Lennon and that's exactly what we've bee playing anyway, you've just decided to label it 433 as opposed to 4231 and our forwards couldn't get anymore isolated if they tried.

 

[Donki]

You can stick the players in any formation you like but after yesterdays performance its clear the players dont have a clue what the fuck they are supposed to be doing. There is a breakdown in communication somewhere. Too many new players too soon, we looks good on paper but our players simply aren't on the same page. The only thing I am holding onto is we cant be that bad again at home to United..... can we?

 

[Legend10]

You can stick the players in any formation you like but after yesterdays performance its clear the players dont have a clue what the fuck they are supposed to be doing. There is a breakdown in communication somewhere. Too many new players too soon, we looks good on paper but our players simply aren't on the same page. The only thing I am holding onto is we cant be that bad again at home to United..... can we?

Actually we only had 3 new players yesterday, Paulinho, Lamela & Soldado, most teams have 3 new players week in week out, City had 4!

 

[Donki]

Actually we only had 3 new players yesterday, Paulinho, Lamela & Soldado, most teams have 3 new players week in week out, City had 4!

Well that in a combination of the players dont know what the hell they are supposed to be doing, there is something very wrong ATM.

I am absolutely astonished at the performance yesterday, not because of the result but because how can we have so much of the ball away from home and do sweet fuck all with it and ship 6 goals? Even our set pieces seem disorganised and poorly thought out.

 

[nikojev]

If you want to play with 2 strikers now days you go 3-5-2 as you don't want to be outnumbered in midfield.

 

[Legend10]

If you want to play with 2 strikers now days you go 3-5-2 as you don't want to be outnumbered in midfield.

Can you call Pelligrini and let him know?

 

[glacierSpurs]

just pass it forward, bounce off a player a quicker 5 seconds, exchange a few one-twos and release the balls earlier, we will be fine...

 

[mendesstormer]

If you want to play with 2 strikers now days you go 3-5-2 as you don't want to be outnumbered in midfield.

Once we get Danny Rose back, that would be my preferred formation. Could even try with Townsend as left wing-back. Think it plays to a lot of our key players' strengths:
Lloris
Chich Kabs Verts
Walker Dembs Sandro Capoue Towns/Rose
Ade Sold

 

[Legend10]

Once we get Danny Rose back, that would be my preferred formation. Could even try with Townsend as left wing-back. Think it plays to a lot of our key players' strengths:
Lloris
Chich Kabs Verts
Walker Dembs Sandro Capoue Towns/Rose
Ade Sold

There isn't an ounce of creativity in that team at all, in fact the 2 creative players on the ball in that team are both centre backs!

 

[Syn_13]

4-2-3-1 isn't my favourite formation but I don't see why it's a problem. We have a great blend of players of different styles. Sure, some of them aren't as high a quality as the ones City have at their expense, but nonetheless they're all good quality players. Many have international experience and all of them are easily good enough for the Premiership.

A 4-2-3-1 can work in the Premiership easily, and I can't see why we can't make it work. Perhaps a change in formation will spice things up a bit, but I think it's more to do with the way the players are being instructed, or perhaps their motivation, than the shortcomings of our formation.

 

[Dembele'Disciple]

Formation is our problem, our style of play is. If we continue to play using a high line, pressuring opposition teams and hoping to play through packed midfields and defences we're fooling ourselves. We simply don't have players who are good enough for this nonsens and I can't see why we do it.

Teams react to this pressure by not passing out from the back, basically our opponents don't have enough ball for the defensive block to get out of position which would lead to us having to play through already 'set' and 'organised' defences and the only way we'd do that is if we had quality players who can link up in the final third, we don't have that. At times that's not enough either.

United have never played this way and the reason for it is pretty simple. Too much of anything is good for you. Too much possession is the difference between the arsenal side of the early 00's and the one that failed to win anything. Most goals are scored in transition and placing our defenders on the half way line and pressing the opponent in their third reduces our chances of getting transition plays. United generally let teams play against them so they can catch them in transition. Backing themselves to defend well when teams get at them.

Now we don't have tippy tappy players(our best one is a actually on loan, go figure). Let's play to our strengths FFS and perhaps score more goals. Watch Atl madrid play and you'd see what would work for us. Watch brazil play too, and you'll see the football we need to be playing.

 

[Pat Rice Spurs fan]

What's the difference been 4231 and 442?

Soldado
Lamela Adebayor Townsend
Sandro Capoue
​

Or

Soldado Adebayor
Lamela Sandro Capoue Townsend
​

Please feel free to exchange players as you see fit. It makes no difference unless the players get different instructions.
E.g. Eriksen for Ade, or Lamela for Ade with Chadli coming in, Dembele or Paulinho for the centre mid two, whatever.

 

[Strikeb4ck]

Soldado - Adebayor
Townsend ------ Lamela
Capoue - Dembele
Rose - Vertonghen - Kaboul - Walker
Lloris

 

[Breezer]

It's not as easy as just changing formation! Playing 4231 you have 5 mid-field players pressing the ball high up the pitch with our defence playing a high line to pick up anything that spills through the midfield. Switching to 442 would mean more space for our opponents which would make it suicidal to play the high line as we will not put as much pressure on the ball. This was evident yesterday! So we either stick with 5 in midfield or AVB needs to change his whole philosophy and the team drops off 10 yards. This might help with creating more chances for Soldado. How many times have we played through ball for him to run on to? It's very difficult because we press teams high up the pitch and when we do win the ball our opponents are still in their own half with no space in behind.

 

[Legend10]

It's not as easy as just changing formation! Playing 4231 you have 5 mid-field players pressing the ball high up the pitch with our defence playing a high line to pick up anything that spills through the midfield. Switching to 442 would mean more space for our opponents which would make it suicidal to play the high line as we will not put as much pressure on the ball. This was evident yesterday! So we either stick with 5 in midfield or AVB needs to change his whole philosophy and the team drops off 10 yards. This might help with creating more chances for Soldado. How many times have we played through ball for him to run on to? It's very difficult because we press teams high up the pitch and when we do win the ball our opponents are still in their own half with no space in behind.

Firstly our defence could never be exposed as much as it was in a 4231 yesterday, the 1st half was littered with City straight at our back 4 and sometimes back 3.

Secondly it wouldn't hurt our play to drop 10 yards anyway.

 

[gavspur]

Firstly our defence could never be exposed as much as it was in a 4231 yesterday, the 1st half was littered with City straight at our back 4 and sometimes back 3.

Secondly it wouldn't hurt our play to drop 10 yards anyway.

I think this is key.. The high line leaves little space to work in the oppo half.. And if they win the ball, they're always looking to break quickly and have a half pitch to do it into, right onto our Cb's.. Everyone sits deep Vs us, it's so easy to hit us on the break.. I say we sit deep, defend on our area, and when we knick the ball, spray it touch line wide to Andros/Lamela/Chadli etc to break, and hopefully this will create space for Soldado to get into good positions.