Toxicity and modern football fans

[rossdapep]

I was thinking from the City game, Pep was complaining after about the City fans not supporting in the first half. There were some Blue Moons and chants but the overwhelming sound was booing. Booing official decisions, booing defending, booing opposition players, and then the booing at half time when 2-0 down.

When you ask fans what they want, they'll all say spending on players and trophies. The City fans should be in the position that we all want to be in- having won 4/ 5 last titles and a bottomless transfer budget. But even they are booing at half-time in a game they'll go on to win 4-2.

We used to ridicule the Arsenal fans for booing and their persistent moaning on AFTV and lack of support all during the years we were on top. Now our fans behave just like that. We boo at the end of the games and at half time and sometimes even our players coming on as subs because they've had some dodgy performances before. The forums and Twitter are full of angry messages about players, Conte, ENIC, Levy. People are trying to start campaigns to force ENIC to sell out to Qataris, never mind the politics. And for what? To be in the City fans position. Booing at half time.

During the Poch years I remember genuine joy around the ground, a feeling of progress and excitement at what we were seeing each week, and nobody complaining about not winning trophies, genuinely. I really miss that, and wonder if it can return. But I think people are so bothered by windups from rival fans on Twitter or Arsenal having a good season and a general sense of entitlement, because it seems the only happy fans now are the ones whose club is in 1st place, and even then they're angry and complaining about referees or lack of "credit" from the media or something. Makes you wonder what it's all about really...

Online fans and all this rivalry and banter has meant that people simply have zero patience.

I guess a lot of those City fans booing turned up recently or grew up with the team winning. There is no way a City diehard who has supported the club from Maine Road days is booing, cause they know what it's like to be at the bottom - I think a lot of those diehards stopped going when the club started winning anyway.

In our case, I certainly don't agree with booing at HT and abusing players, it is so counter-productive. I do however understand how some who have travelled long distances and spent a lot for years under the ENIC reign have a right to air frustrations.

If it's the new generation and they are upset cause they have to get 'one-over' in the banter stakes, then it's quite simply pathetic.

 

[Hotspur33]

the time has changed. during Poch years we were told that we are building the new stadium and we accepted the fact that our funds are limited. we had hope that once the new stadium is completed we will be able to compete at the highest level. however, after these years we are going backwards, especially when our best players left or will be leaving and we seem can't find a way to replace them, we probably will not have the chance to compete at the highest level again and that's all the board/ENIC's fault. i don't think you can blame the fans being annoyed

I think you’re missing the point. The OP is not talking specifically about Spurs.

 

[whitesocks]

I certainly agree with the first half of the OP.
After all those trophies with a manager who knows what he's doing, how on earth can manc fans boo that team? (Unless on human rights grounds.)

And no-one has ever seen such entitled fans as those on AFC TV. They helped drive out wenger who won so much with them. Repulsive fans. Repulsive people.
And such is life, they look likely to be rewarded for their tantrums.

 

[Shanks]

Talksport

 

[Nodutus]

I know the problem of Spurs and modern football goes deeper and began long before this, but I can’t help to think that a big part of us and our soul died when WHL were torn down. It just hasn’t been the same since and I honestly miss and think about WHL multiple times a week.

 

[Deleted member 26368]

Superb post.

I think much of the toxicity comes from frustration and the inherent realisation that we as fans have very little control or say over what happens on and off the pitch.

To echo others, it's led me to feel less inclined to follow the sport as a whole and focus more energy on other interests.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I was thinking from the City game, Pep was complaining after about the City fans not supporting in the first half. There were some Blue Moons and chants but the overwhelming sound was booing. Booing official decisions, booing defending, booing opposition players, and then the booing at half time when 2-0 down.

When you ask fans what they want, they'll all say spending on players and trophies. The City fans should be in the position that we all want to be in- having won 4/ 5 last titles and a bottomless transfer budget. But even they are booing at half-time in a game they'll go on to win 4-2.

We used to ridicule the Arsenal fans for booing and their persistent moaning on AFTV and lack of support all during the years we were on top. Now our fans behave just like that. We boo at the end of the games and at half time and sometimes even our players coming on as subs because they've had some dodgy performances before. The forums and Twitter are full of angry messages about players, Conte, ENIC, Levy. People are trying to start campaigns to force ENIC to sell out to Qataris, never mind the politics. And for what? To be in the City fans position. Booing at half time.

During the Poch years I remember genuine joy around the ground, a feeling of progress and excitement at what we were seeing each week, and nobody complaining about not winning trophies, genuinely. I really miss that, and wonder if it can return. But I think people are so bothered by windups from rival fans on Twitter or Arsenal having a good season and a general sense of entitlement, because it seems the only happy fans now are the ones whose club is in 1st place, and even then they're angry and complaining about referees or lack of "credit" from the media or something. Makes you wonder what it's all about really...

Unfortunately the crowds are becom8ng more and more corporate. Just a day out. Radio commentator the other day was saying he had been at a City game and never seen so many half and half scarves .
we are no better than anyone else in that respect. Corporate brings in lots of money.
who are these planks who shout SHOOOOT when anyone is near the edge of the area .pathetic really, but the likes of us who have stood behind the goal at Oldham in the cup, notts county in the cup. Had bricks thrown at them at Leeds, will just have to accept the game as it is now.
I know someone who says he is a lifelong Liverpool fan. Has YNWA as his ring tone. I asked him who scored the goals at Istanbul. I gave him Gerrard to start him off and that was all he got.
pain in the arse. Everybody is an expert on the prem lge these days. unfortunately most of them are as thick as Jermaine..( I forgot I owned a house…..I forgot I left my sports car at an Italian airport) Pennant.
just gone bankrupt…surprise.

 

[muel]

Getting my first season ticket last season was one of the proudest moments of my life. A season and a half later and so much about the match day experience but particularly the ‘fans’ have made me consider whether I want to continue forking out a considerable amount of money each year to do it.

Probably compounded by how it has been for us as a club since then but still.

 

[Frozen_Waffles]

It is really a form of instant gratification, we have everything now. Basically we are spoilt.

Short video reels (tik tok), short news (twitter), instant socialising, films/tv on demand. We don't have to wait for anything anymore, patience has gone out the window.

This has spread to football... we could laugh at Manchester City fans booing (2nd in the league, group winners of CL, 4 out of the past 5 seasons as league champions).

We are just as bad, we want everything now, Emerson Royal a 21 (a twenty one year old right back playing out of position) booed. No player can go through a rough patch without being crucified these days. We cannot wait three weeks for a signing (just sign him now Levy).

It works the other way as well, if we beat Fulham sign a couple of players, suddenly all is right with the world. It is a never ending bipolar society.

Arsenal fans are the perfect example, remember all the shit they were giving Arteta at the end of last season? They wanted him out and now he is the greatest manager ever. It is bonkers nothing is ever just ok, it is the end of the world burn everything down or it is bliss.

 

[scat1620]

For me, maybe it's time to find another interest, as there are so many other things in life that are stressful and make me feel unhappy, that I just don't need another one.

 

[ultimateloner]

The price of the tickets and the toil of the logistics make people want to 'get something back' in the form of a win. When they don't get it, they lash out, because it is in their right to do so. They feel justified because they are customers.

It's understandable really; if going to a Spurs game is the same as fine-dining to you. The price is similar, and fine-dining will at least give a good service without the logistical problems.

I'm not against this attitude personally. As long as it doesn't go violent or beyond the playing staff concerned. You get paid big money to bear the pressure.

 

[dontcallme]

I really believe that modern football is a fascinating sociological study.

The money did bring the game forward in many ways but also destroyed it.

I remember watching Spurs play in the 90s. Tickets were reasonably priced, that the average fan could afford and, wages were decent but not excessive and you felt a connection with the players.

I went to watch the dullest 0-0 imaginable against QPR and fans just accepted that's the way games were sometimes.

Now games are excessively priced and as a result expectations are to an unrealistic level. "Why are we paying such high prices for a team not competing at the top" is a cry we often hear.

Football can never be as good as the money makers want you to believe.

The game is messed up and there is simply too much football with too high expectations.

But I don't blame fans for being unhappy, they're being fleeced and their devotion to their club of choice is an addiction they can't shake.

 

[Stavrogin]

We used to ridicule the Arsenal fans for booing and their persistent moaning on AFTV and lack of support all during the years we were on top. Now our fans behave just like that. We boo at the end of the games and at half time and sometimes even our players coming on as subs because they've had some dodgy performances before. The forums and Twitter are full of angry messages about players, Conte, ENIC, Levy. People are trying to start campaigns to force ENIC to sell out to Qataris, never mind the politics. And for what? To be in the City fans position. Booing at half time.

A lot of insightful comments. But i'd add that we're saturated with low-quality information and encouraged to have opinions yet we are further and further away from the power, from the inner workings.

Every single one of us knows better than Conte, levy and Lewis how to run the club or pick the team but we'll never get the chance to do either. All we have are our opinions which are increasingly valuable but are unable to be put towards any kind of praxis and yet at the same time they are more and more likely to be challenged by others.

You couple that impotence with how entertainment and self gratification have become perhaps the most important aspects of our lives - ie. the thing we spend most time thinking about and pursuing. And it's a volatile situation.

See how bad star wars fans are these days.

 

[JacoZA]

Brilliant post.

Sums it all up really.

There was a poll among Spurs fans and the majority of ENIC OUT people were under 40.

I think it's generational and for me it's simply that they're spoilt brats.

With all due respect, I think this is rich coming from someone who wants a manager, who secured top 4 qualification against the odds, sacked after 14 months in the job.

I'm not saying fans don't act more self-entitled than ever, but let's at least admit that we are all guilty of this to some extent.

 

[Bobbins]

Social media has ruined football just as it’s ruined so much else in life.

Football used to be a nice distraction at the weekend, a chance to break from work or the kids and have a few hours with your mates away from it all. But it was limited generally to game days, with the odd bit of teletext thrown in. It lacked the 24/7 constant content and stress and pressure and “banter” we have now.

Even places like this contribute to it, though it used to be that people on football forums we’re deliberately seeking out more football interactions and having to make some effort to get something out of it, whereas now every twat with a phone is on Twitter ranting about his club, mocking rival fans or believing moronic conspiracy theories. It’s also introduced far younger audiences and foreign audiences to the football community, which isn’t inherently a bad thing, but has led to vast numbers of kids who want instant gratification to follow an extremely small number of specific clubs, and to relentlessly abuse and mock anyone or anything associated with any other club. We’ve all seen the Spurs social media feeds clogged with waves of 13 year old City fans who have no idea what their club even is, or hundreds of random blokes from Africa or India mocking Spurs for having “no trophies” because they only started watching Liverpool 4 years ago.

I love the internet, but it’s fucked the world for ordinary people in so many ways. It’s created and fuelled incredible levels of anger, entitlement, toxicity and given every idiot with an opinion the ability to spew it to 7 billion people.

 

[KingKay]

Great post, sums up my thoughts exactly.

I honestly can’t understand some of the people who follow football these days. It obviously makes them unhappy, and it definitely can’t be healthy. They also seen determined to make everyone else miserable by constantly whinging and criticising everything with their unrealistic expectations.

Probably a bad example as we were genuinely terrible, but I was at the NLD and the tactical genius behind me spent the entire game berating everything we did at the top of his voice. He looked like he was going to have a heart attack. Who has the time and energy for that kind of negativity? Like people have said, it’s a sad reflection of society I suppose.

 

[KingKay]

As others have said, I’ve also been wondering whether supporting Spurs is worth it for a wile now. It’s a bloody big commitment in terms of time and money, and the negativity is infectious no matter how much you try and distance yourself from it.

 

[Gbspurs]

Football has only itself to blame. You treat fans like customers to be milked, it’s just like students at University, I know someone working at a university who say the last 10 years they have become totally entitled spoilt brats who view themselves as customers not students, well they get charged through the nose.

some of it is social media yes and some of it is the boring football we play but the treatment of fans is in my view a part of it, if you treat people a certain way they respond.

I really think you've touched on a key point here. The relationship between a club and a fan has changed hugely over the years but more importantly so has the definition of football club and subsequently the definition of a fan.

A club has gone from a community hub, bringing working class people together with a shared passion to multi-billion pound business, where the world's richest men build throw obscene wealth at each other and then charge fans through the nose to support.

Is it any wonder a "fan" has changed against that backdrop? When I take my 12 year old to watch spurs now it costs about £100 in tickets alone, plus travel and food it's a £200+ day out. When I spend that amount of money on something my expectations change. I want a good show for my money rightly or wrongly.

 

[For the love of Spurs]

I really think you've touched on a key point here. The relationship between a club and a fan has changed hugely over the years but more importantly so has the definition of football club and subsequently the definition of a fan.

A club has gone from a community hub, bringing working class people together with a shared passion to multi-billion pound business, where the world's richest men build throw obscene wealth at each other and then charge fans through the nose to support.

Is it any wonder a "fan" has changed against that backdrop? When I take my 12 year old to watch spurs now it costs about £100 in tickets alone, plus travel and food it's a £200+ day out. When I spend that amount of money on something my expectations change. I want a good show for my money rightly or wrongly.

Absolutely, Spurs charge me through the nose. In return I expect elite performance not a comedy show which is what I have been watching recently. As such service provider Daniel Levy has failed his customers thus will get nothing but complaints. I have to admit pricing does affect my standards, if it was half the price it is now I would be far less frustrated.

 

[chas vs dave]

Absolutely, Spurs charge me through the nose. In return I expect elite performance not a comedy show which is what I have been watching recently. As such service provider Daniel Levy has failed his customers thus will get nothing but complaints. I have to admit pricing does affect my standards, if it was half the price it is now I would be far less frustrated.

That, I can agree with. Which is my biggest annoyance with enic/levy.