For the love of Spurs
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- Mar 28, 2015
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Pretty sure I read the independent commission work on balance of probability not overwhelming proven evidence.
Will FFP finally put spurs where they belong?
- Thread starter kernowspurscoach1977
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Pretty sure I read the independent commission work on balance of probability not overwhelming proven evidence.
SirHarryHotspur
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- Aug 9, 2017
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In the UEFA CAS case even though City partially won their appeal each side had to bear their own costs , so if City dragged it out somehow , surely their costs would have to show up in their yearly accounts that are submitted to the PL .
If City suddenly had resources to fight the case far and beyond their income from their normal football matchday, media & sponsorship income wouldn't that ring alarm bells somewhere.
PS City even had to pay part of UEFA costs , 100,000 euros not that much but they had to pay up.
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rossdapep
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- Aug 25, 2011
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Hadn't thought about that!
SirHarryHotspur
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Political pressure can't be ruled out but I think money suddenly appearing in Man C coffers to fight the case can as every clubs accounts will come under the microscope from now on.
Guernman
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- Aug 24, 2013
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Unfortunately, I think the PL have bitten off more than they can chew here.
Firstly the allegations are of a massive fraud and conspiracy involving many executives in numerous multinational companies and key members of the ruling elite of a sovereign state that last year did over £25 billion of trade with the UK. We are talking about doctoring independently audited accounts over many years, and the key claims of criminal fraud here are not against City football club but external and very powerful entities and individuals.
There is simply no way that the PL are going to be able to prove these charges, and even if they could, the ramifications would be absurd, not just within football, which will be mad enough, but more so in terms of the reputations of these related companies, Sheik Mansour and others. The PL can throw their own rule book at Everton and Forest for clear and obvious breaches of their own rules, but this case against City is a completely different beast.
To find them guilty of these charges will essentially be declaring to the world that the UAE, and Mansour are lying cheats and there is no way that the PL will be able to do that or be allowed to do that in my opinion.
And this is the crux of the problem. We all feel that City have unfairly bent the rules, and we can all see the arrogance with which they have and will continue to deal with these charges against them, but this is what happens when we allow sovereign states to control our football clubs. I don't blame the Premier League for going after them, but the problem is they are in an impossible situation, and compared to the parties involved here, the PL are simply small fish.
I really hope I am wrong, but I can only see this case causing more problems for the PL itself.
It would be great if FFP and the PSR rules could really take hold, and clubs really be forced to operate within their means. And hopefully we will see more cases of obvious breaches like Everton be enforced. I think this needs to be the status quo before the City case is heard, because chances are that is going to disappoint a lot of us
Firstly the allegations are of a massive fraud and conspiracy involving many executives in numerous multinational companies and key members of the ruling elite of a sovereign state that last year did over £25 billion of trade with the UK. We are talking about doctoring independently audited accounts over many years, and the key claims of criminal fraud here are not against City football club but external and very powerful entities and individuals.
There is simply no way that the PL are going to be able to prove these charges, and even if they could, the ramifications would be absurd, not just within football, which will be mad enough, but more so in terms of the reputations of these related companies, Sheik Mansour and others. The PL can throw their own rule book at Everton and Forest for clear and obvious breaches of their own rules, but this case against City is a completely different beast.
To find them guilty of these charges will essentially be declaring to the world that the UAE, and Mansour are lying cheats and there is no way that the PL will be able to do that or be allowed to do that in my opinion.
And this is the crux of the problem. We all feel that City have unfairly bent the rules, and we can all see the arrogance with which they have and will continue to deal with these charges against them, but this is what happens when we allow sovereign states to control our football clubs. I don't blame the Premier League for going after them, but the problem is they are in an impossible situation, and compared to the parties involved here, the PL are simply small fish.
I really hope I am wrong, but I can only see this case causing more problems for the PL itself.
It would be great if FFP and the PSR rules could really take hold, and clubs really be forced to operate within their means. And hopefully we will see more cases of obvious breaches like Everton be enforced. I think this needs to be the status quo before the City case is heard, because chances are that is going to disappoint a lot of us
theShiznit
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- Jul 26, 2004
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The year everyone (but us) is docked 20 points we'll finish second...
To Shrewsbury
To Shrewsbury
mil1lion
This is the place to be
- May 7, 2004
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Although I doubt anything significant will happen I do think the Everton points deduction is having an impact already. It's not so much that teams will get punished for it but it's that they wont want to risk it so much anymore. It already feels that teams are restricted in the transfer window. If that means we are able to strengthen when others can't you have to credit Levy. It's clear he has planned a lot around ffp and despite the pressure from the fans to loosen the purse strings he has stuck to his guns. If there;s one person I trust to navigate around ffp it's Daniel Levy.
I certainly feel we're in a position to generate our own money with this stadium. I'm still a bit surprised we haven't had a big stadium naming rights deal yet. I think we'll be up there competing at the top for years to come. You just have to hope the threat of ffp will at least even the playing field. I don't think ffp is the key though to our success. It's a lot more about our transfer strategy and ability to spend well. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if teams spend 300m in the window if we strengthen just as much or even more with half that money. Utd are the perfect example, ffp restrictions or not they have overspent on less talent than we have. Even Arsenal to some extent have spent an awful lot for what they've got.
I certainly feel we're in a position to generate our own money with this stadium. I'm still a bit surprised we haven't had a big stadium naming rights deal yet. I think we'll be up there competing at the top for years to come. You just have to hope the threat of ffp will at least even the playing field. I don't think ffp is the key though to our success. It's a lot more about our transfer strategy and ability to spend well. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter if teams spend 300m in the window if we strengthen just as much or even more with half that money. Utd are the perfect example, ffp restrictions or not they have overspent on less talent than we have. Even Arsenal to some extent have spent an awful lot for what they've got.
SirHarryHotspur
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There were a lot of questions over this artificially inflated deal, in marketing value were Man City bigger than Arsenal ten years ago.
Manchester City’s Infamous 10-Year Deal Enters Its Final Chapter
Etihad often felt like a supporting character in Manchester City’s legal drama with UEFA, but the past decade has been equally eventful for the Abu Dhabi-government owned carrier.
www.forbes.com
GMI
G.
- Dec 13, 2006
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As a Spurs fan living in Shrewsbury (lovely town btw) I’m not sure how I’d feel when this invariably happens..The year everyone (but us) is docked 20 points we'll finish second...
To Shrewsbury
theShiznit
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Guernman
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I couldn't agree more SirHarry. City cheated in plain sight and the whole world knew it. These deals were absurd, and they were clearly absurd at the time.
The problem was that they were also entirely legal, involved huge and very legitimate entities - Emirates have a 30 billion dollar annual turnover - they were all signed off by the correct executives, they were all audited by big accounting firms like Deloitte, etc.
We all knew that City were bending the rules as and when it happened. The PL had every opportunity to raise the issue at the time - not to prove fraud, because there were never going to then, and are never going to now - but to simply change the rules to prevent sponsorship deals between connected entities at that time. The rules have since changed because of what City clearly did, and that will certainly slow down Newcastle's aspirations, but I think the ship has sailed on actually going after City. It's just too late.
And what happens if they do find against City with these breaches? It would be Pandora's box. If you implicate the likes of Emirates in a high profile fraud allegation aren't they going to throw everything at you for defamation? Is the UK government going to ignore a call from £25 billion a year trading partners who tell them this problem needs to go away or they will. Remember the PL are only trying to bare their teeth now to prevent the government installing an independent regulator, so the government has plenty of sway here.
And what of the ramifications within football, the countless legal challenges from every club that would have won something or avoided relegation etc. Personally, as much as I would love to see City get what they deserve here, I just can't see it happening.
For the love of Spurs
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id imagine the most compliant club in the whole league, just sold Kane for £100m pure profit and got record revenue. Can’t see Levy flirting with FFP in a million years.
SirHarryHotspur
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So are you saying that a Government official has contacted Murray Rosen KC and is going to ask him to influence the decision of the three members of the panel who will make a desicion on the PL charges , we do not know who they are and then Rosen is going to keep quiet about it all.
vegassd
The ghost of Johnny Cash
- Aug 5, 2006
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This is the key for me - let us follow our own strategy and let the chips fall where they may.
It feels like whenever we have spent money, there has always another team (or handful of teams) who have spent considerably more than us, or maybe spent the same on what should be a more limited budget. Fans are left thinking "if they can spend X, why can't we?". I think the truth is that those clubs can't really spend X, which will hopefully be what FFP brings back into balance.
I agree with @guernman that the likelihood of City being thrown to the wolves is unlikely. But if clubs as a whole start to spend within their means, then all the frustration we have suffered as fans over the past 10-odd years should start to reap rewards.
SirHarryHotspur
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Even if we are in a much better financial position due to FFP than a lot of clubs we still have to spend wisely on players, no more Ndombele's and his wage bill, with our current coach and back up with Lange & Munn looks promising.
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Westmorlandspur
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- Feb 1, 2013
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The government pushed through the Saudi purchase of Newcastle. Why wouldn’t they stick their nose in again. The murky world of politics.
Japhet
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There'll be hell to pay if City are perceived to have been dealt with leniently. I think they could well be given a long transfer ban (or cap) on top of points deductions over a few seasons. They might even be given a lower FFP threshold for a few seasons. Whatever it is, I hope they can't get it out of the way in a single season being as they've cheated for nigh on a decade.