Anybody noticed?

WhiteStripe · Aug 18, 2009

nicdic said:
Yeah, man I'm such a dick for telling it how it is.

Ok, re-read my post without the first sentence. I was stupidly trying to crack a joke...a funny..a guffaw..but seriously, you didn't read my posts and you clearly have the wrong impression about my opinion on RK.

I think Keanes overall contribution to the game was worthy of praise and this is being overshadowed by 3 chances. In my opinion, directing a header in either corner with a ball travelling at that pace and angle was not easy at all. Getting his head on it was the first task, hitting the target was the second.

It's incomparable to Darren Bents chance, that was on his head, and he missed the target!

Legend10 · Aug 18, 2009

I'm not a fan of Keane and never have been, even in his 'pomp' years at Spurs he has been a player that has frustrated me beyond all belief.

I will say this though, i thought he had a decent game on Sunday. He obviously should have scored with the header, it was a very poor piece of finishing. He simply gave Reina a chance to make the save when he shouldn't have had any chance. But other than that I thought he done well, I don't think the other 2 chances were that poor. Reina stood up well on the first and Keane snatched at the 1 he hit over the bar, probably because he hadn't taken 1 of the other 2 chances, but hey ho even the best of the best miss those sorts of opportunities.

Keane competed a little more than he usually does on Sunday and this was good to see. He knows under Harry that he will genuinely have to earn his place and won't be afforded the benefit of favourtism that he so obviously had under Jol and Ramos. It may actually make him into a better player and one that can go on to earn a place in the team purely on merit. If he does this and genuinely competes for the Spurs cause for 90 minutes then I'm well and truly behind him.

Flatters · Aug 18, 2009

I think Keane should have scored when he tried to chip Reina actually. It was stupid trying to chip him from there when Reina was still on his feet.

nicdic · Aug 18, 2009

Legend10 said:
I'm not a fan of Keane and never have been, even in his 'pomp' years at Spurs he has been a player that has frustrated me beyond all belief.

I will say this though, i thought he had a decent game on Sunday. He obviously should have scored with the header, it was a very poor piece of finishing. He simply gave Reina a chance to make the save when he shouldn't have had any chance. But other than that I thought he done well, I don't think the other 2 chances were that poor. Reina stood up well on the first and Keane snatched at the 1 he hit over the bar, probably because he hadn't taken 1 of the other 2 chances, but hey ho even the best of the best miss those sorts of opportunities.

Keane competed a little more than he usually does on Sunday and this was good to see. He knows under Harry that he will genuinely have to earn his place and won't be afforded the benefit of favourtism that he so obviously had under Jol and Ramos. It may actually make him into a better player and one that can go on to earn a place in the team purely on merit. If he does this and genuinely competes for the Spurs cause for 90 minutes then I'm well and truly behind him.

Completely agree.

BringBack_leGin · Aug 18, 2009

Legend10 said:
I'm not a fan of Keane and never have been, even in his 'pomp' years at Spurs he has been a player that has frustrated me beyond all belief.

I will say this though, i thought he had a decent game on Sunday. He obviously should have scored with the header, it was a very poor piece of finishing. He simply gave Reina a chance to make the save when he shouldn't have had any chance. But other than that I thought he done well, I don't think the other 2 chances were that poor. Reina stood up well on the first and Keane snatched at the 1 he hit over the bar, probably because he hadn't taken 1 of the other 2 chances, but hey ho even the best of the best miss those sorts of opportunities.

Keane competed a little more than he usually does on Sunday and this was good to see. He knows under Harry that he will genuinely have to earn his place and won't be afforded the benefit of favourtism that he so obviously had under Jol and Ramos. It may actually make him into a better player and one that can go on to earn a place in the team purely on merit. If he does this and genuinely competes for the Spurs cause for 90 minutes then I'm well and truly behind him.

People who want to know how it was on Sunday should read this post.

I like both our little strikers, I feel they both played well, and I think the fact that we won a game against a side meant to be lightyears ahead of is is testement to the fact that every player did his job and did it well.

nicdic · Aug 18, 2009

WhiteStripe said:
Ok, re-read my post without the first sentence. I was stupidly trying to crack a joke...a funny..a guffaw..but seriously, you didn't read my posts and you clearly have the wrong impression about my opinion on RK.

I think Keanes overall contribution to the game was worthy of praise and this is being overshadowed by 3 chances. In my opinion, directing a header in either corner with a ball travelling at that pace and angle was not easy at all. Getting his head on it was the first task, hitting the target was the second.

It's incomparable to Darren Bents chance, that was on his head, and he missed the target!

But I've not said his overall contribution wasn't worthy of praise, it was a decent performance. All I've been saying is that people shouldn't be defending him miss the header. It was a miss, and should have been a goal. For some reason, me saying that seemed to make all of my posts read, "Keane is crap, he played rubbish, I love Defoe, Keane is the anti-Christ". Which they don't.

I agree with most people in this thread, he played well, but, he should have scored and I don't think there is an excuse for missing that header.

Luka Lennon · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
I think Keane should have scored when he tried to chip Reina actually. It was stupid trying to chip him from there when Reina was still on his feet.

it was a very tight angle and Reina narrowed it even more plus he had a defender right on him and had to act fast

a low drive to the far post most likely would've went wide

Keano had 2 choices a chip or a nutmeg and bloody hell if he had of went for the nutmeg and missed he would've really been on the end of some serious forum abuse lol :grin:

fact is Reina played the situation perfectly as he's a top keeper and didn't go to ground early or he'd have been fvcked and Keano woulda scored

I was upset about the header but overall Keano had a good game and contributed to our 2-1 opening day win against the sky 4 scouse cvnts :up:

Flatters · Aug 18, 2009

I think he was alright, but still didn't play that well overall. Same goes for Defoe. Defoe earnt his chance to play on Sunday though. Keane didn't (I think Pav earnt his chance to start), along with the opinion I have that I don't think Defoe and Keane playing up front together works. We just don't have enough options when it's just the two of them up front together. We're not forced to play the ball in the air when Crouch (or Pav) plays, but it's a necessary option as far as I'm concerned. Defoe is without a doubt our best striker at the moment, so I don't think Keane should be playing. I think Defoe should be starting up front with Pavlyuchenko or Crouch. Keane either needs to be in better form than Defoe, which he's not at the moment, or show that he can link up well enough with Defoe for the two of them to play up front together, which I don't think works.

WhiteStripe · Aug 18, 2009

nicdic said:
But I've not said his overall contribution wasn't worthy of praise, it was a decent performance.

nicdic said:
I don't think Keane or Defoe had particularly good games, but then I don't think they can play as a partnership and don't bring out the best in each other.

nicdic said:
I personally thought Keane did OK, no better, no worse. He missed two good chances, and rushed another. He had a few good bits of link up, but never seemed to give Liverpool too many problems.

:think:

Nic, I usually have a lot of time for what you say, but for me, this time, you are using a "missed header" to get in the way of your dislike for Keane.

Flatters · Aug 18, 2009

Luka Lennon said:
it was a very tight angle and Reina narrowed it even more plus he had a defender right on him and had to act fast

a low drive to the far post most likely would've went wide

Keano had 2 choices a chip or a nutmeg and bloody hell if he had of went for the nutmeg and missed he would've really been on the end of some serious forum abuse lol :grin:

fact is Reina played the situation perfectly as he's a top keeper and didn't go to ground early or he'd have been fvcked and Keano woulda scored

I was upset about the header but overall Keano had a good game and contributed to our 2-1 opening day win against the sky 4 scouse cvnts :up:

I think he'd have been much more likely to score by trying to hit it low and hard. Reina was still standing, so there was a much better chance of getting it past him either side of him by driving it hard and low. Chipping it would have been a good idea had Reina already started going to ground (but I don't think Keane's chipped shot was even on target anyway).

Luka Lennon · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
I think he was alright, but still didn't play that well overall. Same goes for Defoe. Defoe earnt his chance to play on Sunday though. Keane didn't (I think Pav earnt his chance to start), along with the opinion I have that I don't think Defoe and Keane playing up front together works. We just don't have enough options when it's just the two of them up front together. We're not forced to play the ball in the air when Crouch (or Pav) plays, but it's a necessary option as far as I'm concerned. Defoe is without a doubt our best striker at the moment, so I don't think Keane should be playing. I think Defoe should be starting up front with Pavlyuchenko or Crouch. Keane either needs to be in better form than Defoe, which he's not at the moment, or show that he can link up well enough with Defoe for the two of them to play up front together, which I don't think works.

We won 2-1 and out of the 2 Keano and Defoe well Keano played better imho. Defoe didn't get into any real dangerous goal scoring positions and during pre-season in the little asia whatever trophy Keano scored a cracker. Fact is Keano and Modric have been showing signs of linking up very well. He set up the cracker in the asia pot final and set-up afew chances for Keano on Sunday too the header being one. Once Keano finds his scoring touch then him and Modric will be a devastating combo in the final third as they read each other so well and are 2 of our best players. How anyone can complain about Harrys starting 11 when we done the scousers 2-1 on opening day is beyond me. I'm still chuffed to bits everything worked out perfectly.

COYS

Luka Lennon · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
I think he'd have been much more likely to score by trying to hit it low and hard. Reina was still standing, so there was a much better chance of getting it past him either side of him by driving it hard and low. Chipping it would have been a good idea had Reina already started going to ground (but I don't think Keane's chipped shot was even on target anyway).

but there was no angle to go low and hard

to go front post he'd of had to nutmeg him and the angle was so bad low and far post probably woulda went wide not to mention he had a defender right on his shoulder

Flatters · Aug 18, 2009

Luka Lennon said:
We won 2-1 and out of the 2 Keano and Defoe well Keano played better imho. Defoe didn't get into any real dangerous goal scoring positions and during pre-season in the little asia whatever trophy Keano scored a cracker. Fact is Keano and Modric have been showing signs of linking up very well. He set up the cracker in the asia pot final and set-up afew chances for Keano on Sunday too the header being one. Once Keano finds his scoring touch then him and Modric will be a devastating combo in the final third as they read each other so well and are 2 of our best players. How anyone can complain about Harrys starting 11 when we done the scousers 2-1 on opening day is beyond me. I'm still chuffed to bits everything worked out perfectly.

COYS

It's nothing to do with the fact that we won. Yes we won, but we still weren't perfect and I think we can do a lot better. I think we would do better to replace Keane with Pavlyuchenko or Crouch, as Defoe was showing in pre-season that he could link up well with Pavlyuchenko, and he's proved for Portsmouth that he can link up well with Crouch. Defoe also continued to impress for England. I think it's hard to compare Defoe and Keane's performances against Liverpool. They both showed glimpses of good play, but neither did enough overall in my opinion, and I think that's probably more down to their partnership not working than either of them having particularly bad individual games.

nicdic · Aug 18, 2009

WhiteStripe said:
:think:

Nic, I usually have a lot of time for what you say, but for me, this time, you are using a "missed header" to get in the way of your dislike for Keane.

Luka Lennon said:
We won 2-1 and out of the 2 Keano and Defoe well Keano played better imho. Defoe didn't get into any real dangerous goal scoring positions and during pre-season in the little asia whatever trophy Keano scored a cracker. Fact is Keano and Modric have been showing signs of linking up very well. He set up the cracker in the asia pot final and set-up afew chances for Keano on Sunday too the header being one. Once Keano finds his scoring touch then him and Modric will be a devastating combo in the final third as they read each other so well and are 2 of our best players. How anyone can complain about Harrys starting 11 when we done the scousers 2-1 on opening day is beyond me. I'm still chuffed to bits everything worked out perfectly.

COYS

We did well to beat them, yes.

Could we have played better? Yes.

There's no harm in looking for ways in which to improve. Lennon was quiet, and can play better, and the strikers could do better too, and I think the easiest way to improve that is play two strikers who make a good partnership, rather than playing your two best strikers.

Flatters said:
It's nothing to do with the fact that we won. Yes we won, but we still weren't perfect and I think we can do a lot better. I think we would do better to replace Keane with Pavlyuchenko or Crouch, as Defoe was showing in pre-season that he could link up well with Pavlyuchenko, and he's proved for Portsmouth that he can link up well with Crouch. Defoe also continued to impress for England. I think it's hard to compare Defoe and Keane's performances against Liverpool. They both showed glimpses of good play, but neither did enough overall in my opinion, and I think that's probably more down to their partnership not working than either of them having particularly bad individual games.

Agree on the whole.

Luka Lennon · Aug 18, 2009

just watched the MoD highlights again here they are

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/3214126/

anybody saying Keano should've went low and hard far post have lost the plot, defender was already sliding in and had that angle well covered

Luka Lennon · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
It's nothing to do with the fact that we won. Yes we won, but we still weren't perfect and I think we can do a lot better. I think we would do better to replace Keane with Pavlyuchenko or Crouch, as Defoe was showing in pre-season that he could link up well with Pavlyuchenko, and he's proved for Portsmouth that he can link up well with Crouch. Defoe also continued to impress for England. I think it's hard to compare Defoe and Keane's performances against Liverpool. They both showed glimpses of good play, but neither did enough overall in my opinion, and I think that's probably more down to their partnership not working than either of them having particularly bad individual games.

well there's the main point we disagree on because I think Modric and Keano linking up will prove to be deadly this season

we're obviously both not going to budge so up the SPURS and roll on wednesday so we can get more ammo for our debate

Flatters · Aug 18, 2009

Luka Lennon said:
just watched the MoD highlights again here they are

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videodisplay/3214126/

anybody saying Keano should've went low and hard far post have lost the plot, defender was already sliding in and had that angle well covered

Well not necessarily against the ground, but I definitely think he should have just drilled it. Chipping there wasn't an option.

Luka Lennon said:
well there's the main point we disagree on because I think Modric and Keano linking up will prove to be deadly this season

we're obviously both not going to budge so up the SPURS and roll on wednesday so we can get more ammo for our debate

Why do you think that though? I'm just basing my opinion on what I've seen over the past few games, and Defoe wins hands down on that.

WhiteStripe · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
It's nothing to do with the fact that we won. Yes we won, but we still weren't perfect and I think we can do a lot better. I think we would do better to replace Keane with Pavlyuchenko or Crouch, as Defoe was showing in pre-season that he could link up well with Pavlyuchenko, and he's proved for Portsmouth that he can link up well with Crouch. Defoe also continued to impress for England. I think it's hard to compare Defoe and Keane's performances against Liverpool. They both showed glimpses of good play, but neither did enough overall in my opinion, and I think that's probably more down to their partnership not working than either of them having particularly bad individual games.

Just not true, my observations would be;

Olympiakos – Pav & Defoe – 45 mins, very little link up play, although a great goal by Pav which was set up by Modric/Lennon.

South China – Defoe & Pav – 37 mins, very little link up play.

West Ham – Pav & Defoe 45 mins, Pav replaced by Kean at half time, Keane & Defoe looked very good together.

Celtic – Pav & Defoe 45 mins – Woeful

Bournmouth – Pav & Defoe 45 mins – didn’t watch this so cannot comment.

It simply isn't true that they played well togethr pre-season. I do think they can be an excellent partnership, but come on, do you actually watch the games?

Luka Lennon · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
Well not necessarily against the ground, but I definitely think he should have just drilled it. Chipping there wasn't an option.

Why do you think that though? I'm just basing my opinion on what I've seen over the past few games, and Defoe wins hands down on that.

it was a split second half chance the header was a far worse miss and who played him in again my man Modric

do you not see how well Luka and Keano have been linking up they're on the same wave length and will be edevastating together this season?

do you not think we looked far more dangerous with Keano on the field and after he went off we were on the back foot alot more?

when you take off Keano you lose ALOT of workrate upfront and opposing defenders have far more time on the ball to build from the back and set-up attacks that's why the scousers looked better after Keano got subbed.

werty · Aug 18, 2009

Flatters said:
Why do you think that though? I'm just basing my opinion on what I've seen over the past few games, and Defoe wins hands down on that.

Defoe was better against Olympiakos, granted. In the West Ham game they're wasn't much between them, Defoe just gettingg the edge. Against Hull Keane was by far the better player. Didn't see the South China game so can't comment. Didn't see the England game but I guess Defoe was better cause he scored twice. Keane didn't play too badly for the Republic though. Against Liverpool Keane was the better player. I can't see how Defoe wins hands down.

And you want to play Pav and Defoe away from home? The same Pav who hasn't scored away from home in the Premiership and the same Defoe who is notoriously ineffective away. Good idea

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