The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 1 August 2011

S17PUR · Aug 1, 2011

Do none of our players have 'contacts'? Surely Van Der Vaart made one or two friends in Madrid? Or a few in the Dutch national squad? Sure, we can't compete on wages but generally speaking foreign imports, in particular, love it at Spurs.

Fergie is forever getting his players and ex-players to tap up transfer targets through the media (and presumably in private) - why is VDV not in The Sun telling Kaka to come join him at Spurs!? I'm joking with that example obviously, but the point must have some validity?

Stoof · Aug 1, 2011

mike_l said:
I have no idea why this discussion has spiralled to this point, all I wanted to say in the first place was that I doubt the sole reason for our lack of activity is that "deals take time".

That's my opinion and yours is different, I'm not gonna go down the route of dismissing your posts as unjustifiable piffle just because I disagree with what you have put though.

For the record, and I thought this was clear from my posts, I think we have been trying, but trying in the wrong places evidently. As I said and will stand by, if you have tried your hardest and achieved nothing by this point, you are barking up the wrong tree. How you have managed to translate that into me thinkinwe haven't been trying I don't know.

If we are happy to wait until the last day to get a bargain, rather than pay a bit more and get the player we want in ahead of the season, then I think our policy is daft. It's the wages that can kill a football club these days more than transfer fees, and they aren't gonna be reduced by waiting until the end of August.

I eagerly await your response calling me an idiot.

I'm not calling you an idiot at all. It's the fact that your opinion comes across as if you'd do a better job. And I have issue with that; because you wouldn't. Nor would I. Nor would anyone that spends their day posting on a messageboard.

I'm very a "people in high positions know what they're doing" type. Especially as Daniel Levy is so hands-on - absolutely everything-on from the intel we get, and we I mean as moderators and administrators, not the general "we".

As I asked you twice in that last post - who are these names that we should be going after?

I'm not calling anyone an idiot, it just seems such an odd way to think that these millionaire businessmen, who have made their millions doing business, doing deals, that us as football fans should express the opinion that they "don't think they're doing enough; or that they're doing it wrong".

That's all.

mike_l · Aug 1, 2011

Ionman34 said:
mike_l said:

You seem to be agreeing with the point I'm making, if I'm not reading you wrong. All 3 of the strikers mentioned are established Internationals and were extremely ineffective. As you say, we require a player to score regularly and be a nuisance too. I agree with you 100%. OK they may not need to be WC, but any player who does that regularly every season might as well be WC for the wages they demand and the transfer fees involved.

I used Aguero to illustrate a point only, you seem to have missed that. It was to illustrate that having a DoF would make no difference to our predicament.

Click to expand...

I read the point that you were making as we have 3 internationals and the next step up is the Aguero level World Class player that we can't afford, it came across as saying that it would be extremely costly to buy strikers that would improve us.

A DoF wouldn't make Aguero join us, but it's easy to think back to Berbatov and imagine that it may get us a modern day equivalent, rightly or wrongly.

yido_number1 · Aug 1, 2011

faze_coys said:
mg:

So is Mateja Kezzman...

Supersi32 · Aug 1, 2011

Mr Pink said:
Just because you're saying those other teams have improved doesn't mean that everybody is going to agree with you on the matter.

I wouldn't want Levy sanctioning that crazy money...75 million on Carroll, Henderson and Downing just because I'm impatient...I'll take my chances that he'll pull something out of the bag which will improve our team and doesn't compromise any sort of financial risk.

I tend to agree with those who think that Liverpool have improved, in fact I would say they have significantly improved, however it doesnt really alter the fact that we need to improve regardless of what other teams are doing/have done. On the other hand, I firmly believe that Levy is doing all he can to bring in the quality we need within our budget.

Hoddle_Ledge · Aug 1, 2011

Are the likes of Hutton/Keane/Bentley etc going to be pushed out of the club eventually?

If it’s 29th August and Keane won't accept any other offers at what point does Levy/Harry step in and tell him you're not going to play/good enough, please get lost immediately.

Do they not realise by being stubborn over their wage packet they are being a detriment to the club.

Supersi32 · Aug 1, 2011

Hoddle_Ledge said:
Are the likes of Hutton/Keane/Bentley etc going to be pushed out of the club eventually?

If it’s 29th August and Keane won't accept any other offers at what point does Levy/Harry step in and tell him you're not going to play/good enough, please get lost immediately.

Do they not realise by being stubborn over their wage packet they are being a detriment to the club.

But a contract is a two way street, as much as we are determined to hold Modric to his, should we then complain about our so called deadwood who wish to honour theirs?....

stemark44 · Aug 1, 2011

Lisandro Lopez is definitely better than anything we have at the minute.

Stoof · Aug 1, 2011

Hoddle_Ledge said:
Do they not realise by being stubborn over their wage packet they are being a detriment to the club.

If they're getting moved on from the club, and it's been made clear they are not wanted, what do they care?

TTID · Aug 1, 2011

Ionman34 said:
mike_l said:

You seem to be agreeing with the point I'm making, if I'm not reading you wrong. All 3 of the strikers mentioned are established Internationals and were extremely ineffective. As you say, we require a player to score regularly and be a nuisance too. I agree with you 100%. OK they may not need to be WC, but any player who does that regularly every season might as well be WC for the wages they demand and the transfer fees involved.

I used Aguero to illustrate a point only, you seem to have missed that. It was to illustrate that having a DoF would make no difference to our predicament.

Click to expand...

Couldnt agree more with the sentiments of the above.

Im not sure a lot of the 'crazies' on here really understand that we were only 4/5 goals away from CL last year. 4 goals in 4 of the draws and 1 less fuck up from Gomes and we would be there.

1 more goal from each of our strikers and another from else where and we would be qualifying for CL football.

All things considered, if that did happen, we would have made it with our strikers still having a shit season, Bale and Modric being injured for big portions of the season, VDV never really being fit, massive inconsistency with our CB's and an insane goalkeeper.

All that and we were still only 4 goals away.

Anyone who thinks that we couldnt get there this year with a more consistently fit team and a striker who is scoring lots of goals (i really dont care who they are as long as they are scoring) is mad.

United prove time and time again that squad consistency is the key to continual success. We have only reached our peak as a Premiership club recently and these delusions of grandeur are not healthy.

It takes time to build, and time to grow and time to achieve on a consistent basis.

So maybe its time for some realism - I dont want to be a flash in the pan team like city chopping and changing every year - lending my passion out to a different set of players constantly. I love his club and i GET what they are trying to do and i respect it.

If you cant see it then you are just being impatient and quite simply just dont get it at all.

DoublePivot · Aug 1, 2011

Be wary of what you wish for. They seem to be trying to systematically get players with talent that can fill holes we have. Except for Friedel.....still, much like the g-spot, that one confuses me and will always remain a mystery. Actually add Pienaar to that too.

Crouch/VDV could start our hot, like last year, and we could do well. But they could start out poorly like they ended last year and we lose the first two games. Then you get your wish. But we buy in panic and desperation and end up getting someone you will be excited about for a week and turn on in a month when you think he's shit (but really just didn't fit). Let me give you an example. We could spend a boat load of money on David Villa.......really bad fit that would cause so many issues with our setup. You'd be ecstatic about him. And then you'd realize that the team isn't working.

We can use to improve, but if it is done carefully, it has much more probability of success. If we panic buy, there's a much higher chance that the purchase will be a failure.

Hoddle_Ledge · Aug 1, 2011

Stoof said:
If they're getting moved on from the club, and it's been made clear they are not wanted, what do they care?

This of course is true, you would just hope that they might have a shred of decency in their body.

Oh hold on...we're talking about footballers...no then.

mike_l · Aug 1, 2011

Stoof said:
I'm not calling you an idiot at all. It's the fact that your opinion comes across as if you'd do a better job. And I have issue with that; because you wouldn't. Nor would I. Nor would anyone that spends their day posting on a messageboard.

I'm very a "people in high positions know what they're doing" type. Especially as Daniel Levy is so hands-on - absolutely everything-on from the intel we get, and we I mean as moderators and administrators, not the general "we".

As I asked you twice in that last post - who are these names that we should be going after?

I'm not calling anyone an idiot, it just seems such an odd way to think that these millionaire businessmen, who have made their millions doing business, doing deals, that us as football fans should express the opinion that they "don't think they're doing enough; or that they're doing it wrong".

That's all.

Sorry for not addressing that point, as you point out I am not the football man, the good people at THFC are, I'm not really able to put together a list of names and say specifically who would be cheaper, better, more cost effective etc. However I don't think it's unreasonable to say that somewhere out there there are players who would be better than Keane/Defoe/Crouch/Pav, but would not be as expensive as Dzeko/Aguero/Rossi/Falcao. These are th players that our experts should be identifying and chasing IMO.

I'd be happy enough to see us take a shot at someone with potential to be a goal machine, much more comfortable in fact than I would be to see us spunk €30m on Rossi. It's not that long ago Falcao went to Porto for €4.5m, I'd like us to be identifying players like that and I'd say it's not such a great risk when you consider our top scoring striker got 9 goals in the league last year.

As for your point about Levy knowing what he's doing, in a business sense yes he definitely does, I'd say he's the best Chairman in England in that respect. With Redknapp in charge though he seems to be more involved in player identification than ever before or at least vetoeing targets he doesn't agree with (only a rumour yes but this is a whole section is based on rumours). I suspect he would still like to have a DoF in place but Harry won't allow it, which has led to him being more hands on in a role that he is not accustomed to and thus is more likely to make mistakes in.

EJWTartanSpur · Aug 1, 2011

Lisandro Lopez would be fucking great.

Osvaldo would take to the Prem like a duck to water as well.

tRiKS · Aug 1, 2011

beats1 said:
I have a similar problem to ledley but I haven't the operation to take out the cartilage, but recently I started training again and due to the lack of training I am close to doing my MTSS

Also harry has confirmed this in his interviews that he missed last season due to a groin injury due to lack of training

I have the exact injury. i have had the cartlidge removed and my knee has progressively produced less swelling year on year. i'm 33 now and my knee is more manageable than it has been since i was 28, due to the reduction in swelling. As a result i can run more and tain more and all my muscles problems and secondary injuires i picked up are becoming far rarer. touch wood i've takee part in my toughest preseason for 5 years with no sign of a muscle strain.

My knee's not gettting any better but my body is attacking the problem with ever decreasing amounts of fluid. As far as sport is concerend it means i can recover and play more regualarly. long term i have to have my knee replaced but only after i stop playing football. hopefully well into my 40's

Bobbins · Aug 1, 2011

Mr Pink said:
Just because you're saying those other teams have improved doesn't mean that everybody is going to agree with you on the matter.

I wouldn't want Levy sanctioning that crazy money...75 million on Carroll, Henderson and Downing just because I'm impatient...I'll take my chances that he'll pull something out of the bag which will improve our team and doesn't compromise any sort of financial risk.

And where exactly did I say I wanted Levy to mortgage the club buying those players, or anyone of that value?

My original post was about the people laughing at Liverpool and ridiculously claiming that they haven't improved - when they demostrably have done so. This was in comparison to us, who have not improved in any significant way.

The arrogance of some people on here, assuming that we'll be laughing at Liverpool struggling along again next season, is astounding.

Akqayid · Aug 1, 2011

Thought I'd lob a lightened tone on things today.

Had a lovely weekend and was with a pal during the day yesterday which was lovely and enlightening.

Huttons off to villa, don't know about others. Keane is STILL holding out for London or Celtic, maybe even abroad. Nothing on anyone else out.

Spoke about the Madrid stuff I found out and posted Friday but players not entirely in the know, but there will be at least one before Everton, and maybe a firesale a few days short of deadline day. Lots a agents working hard on getting the right deals for the 'deadwood' it seems. But wouldnt be too depressed, one mans rubbish is anothers gold. So let's wait and see. Is love to give names and say this and that, but I can't.

chrissivad · Aug 1, 2011

can we get back to talking about the ITK.

Ionman34 · Aug 1, 2011

mike_l said:
Ionman34 said:

I read the point that you were making as we have 3 internationals and the next step up is the Aguero level World Class player that we can't afford, it came across as saying that it would be extremely costly to buy strikers that would improve us.

Bsically yes, that is what I am saying, although I never mentioned our 3 strikers, you did. :grin:

A DoF wouldn't make Aguero join us, but it's easy to think back to Berbatov and imagine that it may get us a modern day equivalent, rightly or wrongly.

Click to expand...

I'm not so sure a DoF would make that happen as it's the scouting network that identifies these players. You also have to accept that having a DoF doesn't mean that he will make these 'unknown gems' appear on demand.
I get where you are coming from Mike, even agree to an extent, but the market, as it currently stands, makes it vastly more difficult to unearth these, shall we say, underappreciated forwards. I would love for us to unearth yet another one but, being realistic, you have to accept that the odds are vastly against that. Any player showing a modicum of striking talent suddenly becomes hot property and demands an extortionate wage, particularly if you want them performing immediately.

KingNick · Aug 1, 2011

DoublePivot said:
Be wary of what you wish for. They seem to be trying to systematically get players with talent that can fill holes we have. Except for Friedel.....still, much like the g-spot, that one confuses me and will always remain a mystery. Actually add Pienaar to that too.

Crouch/VDV could start our hot, like last year, and we could do well. But they could start out poorly like they ended last year and we lose the first two games. Then you get your wish. But we buy in panic and desperation and end up getting someone you will be excited about for a week and turn on in a month when you think he's shit (but really just didn't fit). Let me give you an example. We could spend a boat load of money on David Villa.......really bad fit that would cause so many issues with our setup. You'd be ecstatic about him. And then you'd realize that the team isn't working.

We can use to improve, but if it is done carefully, it has much more probability of success. If we panic buy, there's a much higher chance that the purchase will be a failure.

Good work sir, I salute you.

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