"2 points from 8 games" - SO WHAT!!!!!

nidge · Jun 15, 2012

To add in the business aspect that Kendall mentioned.

I had a quick look on topspurs at transfers since Harry arrived.

We have spent around £102.5 million pounds in 4 years and manage to claw back around £15.5 million pounds (It's 21 million if you added in he report £5.5 million from the kranjcar deal.) So yes we have been relatively successful but at a cost that is yet to be recouped.

The most amazing thing from looking at that is how we managed to make a profit in selling Crouch to Stoke.

wcfnw · Jun 15, 2012

nidge said:
To add in the business aspect that Kendall mentioned.

I had a quick look on topspurs at transfers since Harry arrived.

We have spent around £102.5 million pounds in 4 years and manage to claw back around £15.5 million pounds (It's 21 million if you added in he report £5.5 million from the kranjcar deal.) So yes we have been relatively successful but at a cost that is yet to be recouped.

The most amazing thing from looking at that is how we managed to make a profit in selling Crouch to Stoke.

We Got 18 million for Crouch and Palacios from Stoke and 16.5 million from Sunderland for Bent so your figures are just a tad wrong.

nidge · Jun 15, 2012

wcfnw said:
We Got 18 million for Crouch and Palacios from Stoke and 16.5 million from Sunderland for Bent so your figures are just a tad wrong.

Bent was bought before Harry. I was looking at purely the players purchased during Harry time at the club.

As I said the figure won't be 100% accurate as there are a couple of undisclosed figures. Palacios being one of them. Apparently we got £12 million for Crouch.

Unless someone has the exact figures I doubt we will ever know the numbers. But it does give us a rough idea.

tRiKS · Jun 15, 2012

essentially Ramos wouldnt play King in the league. Although fit to do so he decided to play him at the start of that season in the UEFA Cup and Early Carling cup games. Harry just switched that around and results improved. As under Hoddle and jol before him, Ramos and Harry (for the first 3.5 seasons) were all relient on King playing to get results. the GPP ratio was between 1.1-1.3 without and from 1.8-2.1 with, for ALL those managers over the last 8 seasons. Bascially only a manger who wouldnt play King would have failed to improve vastly on 2pts form 8 games.

Personally i think Ramos engineered himself the sack. He had already decided England wasn't for him, knew the Madid caretaker role was an option and got himself sacked (compensated). reputation intact as he'd won yet another cup at club level and the spainsh press portrayed SPurs and the english media rather successfully as the zenophobic bad guys. A view incidentally that the rest of Europe has over us and Capello.

Mullers · Jun 15, 2012

I never thought Ramos would be a success but I did like the fact that he wanted to make the players healthier and fitter. When Harry took over he just seem to piss all over that idea.

StartingPrice · Jun 15, 2012

I understand what Monty is saying, and partially agree.
Very often, new managers get a 'honeymoon period' were there is usually an upturn in results. Even a slight upturn in form would have been seen as turning it around.
Redknapp came in and immediately had some very tough matches (including Liverpool and the Goons). Losses in those games, which was distinctly plauisible, would have seen the players not buying into the regime change, and the decline could have continued.
And that is where I disagree with you, Monty, there are plenty of managers who could have come in and got an immediate response, but lost thise games, and the mood would have worsened, rather than turned. We really could have gone into terminal decline.
Jonathon Woodgate was absolutely right when, at the towards the of Wandery's reign, in the first public indication that he really had lost the dressing room, and said: "this club is absolutely in a relegation battle."
Redknapp also had the ability to capitalise on his immediate success.
Other managers could have done as good a job, so I do think a bit too much is made of it. But plenty of others could have accelerated the tailspin we were in. So we should give him some credit for it.

I think the bigger issue is that the media and certain fans are focussing on his results to try and understand why he was released. I think there were many more important factors.

StartingPrice · Jun 15, 2012

tRiKS said:
essentially Ramos wouldnt play King in the league. Although fit to do so he decided to play him at the start of that season in the UEFA Cup and Early Carling cup games. Harry just switched that around and results improved. As under Hoddle and jol before him, Ramos and Harry (for the first 3.5 seasons) were all relient on King playing to get results. the GPP ratio was between 1.1-1.3 without and from 1.8-2.1 with, for ALL those managers over the last 8 seasons. Bascially only a manger who wouldnt play King would have failed to improve vastly on 2pts form 8 games.

Personally i think Ramos engineered himself the sack. He had already decided England wasn't for him, knew the Madid caretaker role was an option and got himself sacked (compensated). reputation intact as he'd won yet another cup at club level and the spainsh press portrayed SPurs and the english media rather successfully as the zenophobic bad guys. A view incidentally that the rest of Europe has over us and Capello.

The World thinks Spurs are xenophobic bad guys because Capello was sacked? Infamy, infamy...they've all got it infamy

talkshowhost86 · Jun 15, 2012

tRiKS said:
essentially Ramos wouldnt play King in the league. Although fit to do so he decided to play him at the start of that season in the UEFA Cup and Early Carling cup games. Harry just switched that around and results improved. As under Hoddle and jol before him, Ramos and Harry (for the first 3.5 seasons) were all relient on King playing to get results. the GPP ratio was between 1.1-1.3 without and from 1.8-2.1 with, for ALL those managers over the last 8 seasons. Bascially only a manger who wouldnt play King would have failed to improve vastly on 2pts form 8 games.

Personally i think Ramos engineered himself the sack. He had already decided England wasn't for him, knew the Madid caretaker role was an option and got himself sacked (compensated). reputation intact as he'd won yet another cup at club level and the spainsh press portrayed SPurs and the english media rather successfully as the zenophobic bad guys. A view incidentally that the rest of Europe has over us and Capello.

Got himself sacked? Was that before continuing the jape by being terrible at Real and at CSKA?

hellava_tough · Jun 15, 2012

nidge said:
Bent was bought before Harry. I was looking at purely the players purchased during Harry time at the club.

As I said the figure won't be 100% accurate as there are a couple of undisclosed figures. Palacios being one of them. Apparently we got £12 million for Crouch.

Unless someone has the exact figures I doubt we will ever know the numbers. But it does give us a rough idea.

I see where you're coming from

But you're missing out the £50million for Berbs and Keane that was never spent until Harry showed up

Mattspur · Jun 15, 2012

I notice they don't print much about the 1 win in 10 games in 10/11 or the 1 win in 9 games last season.

class of 62 · Jun 15, 2012

Montasura said:
Honestly, I've been growing so tired of hearing this over the last number of weeks/months - first in support of Harry and now in the vast array of articles about his sacking.

But rather than being a typical thread of rant, what I wanted to do was prompt some discussion on that particula time 4 years ago.

My personal opinion is that whoever was brought in to replace Ramos would most likely have had the same effect. I don't believe it was anything particularly to do with Harry himself, although I acknowledge that one of his stronger points is his famed man management skills, the arm around the shoulder technique. But its not like we had a crap squad, in fact we had the makings of a fairly decent squad, some of who are still there. What Ramos did wrong has been well documented and discussed and IMO the players had got caught in the ever increasing spotlight and were losing whatever fragile confidence they had left. So what we needed was a change of manager. I'm not for one second disputing what we achieved under Harry over the four years, but solely focussing on his initial few months I honestly believe that whoever could have taken over would probably have had the same outcome.

Thoughts??

i remember quite clearly when redknapp took over he said he would "walk away" if that/squad team got relegated that season!!,
he knew what he had & with the extra £40mil levy gave him he couldnt lose.

Misfit · Jun 15, 2012

Stoof said:
I think at the time it wasn't obvious that we weren't going to go down.

I'm not sure I could speculate as to what another manager may have achieved/not achieved. We needed a boost from someone capable of being a hands-on man manager. New words don't necessarily mean good things.

In fact, there's a thing from the Fink Tank - if you read The Times - that shows that new manager's rarely have this massive immediate impact. It tends to average out over a season. An initial spike will always be balanced by a slump. The same for an initial slump being countered by an improvement.

Last year, look at Mark Hughes as a prime example. Even Di Matteo took a while.

That assumes the team at the bottom of the table has a shite squad and naturally revert to their normal mediocraty over time. Our squad should have been nowehere near the bottom half, nevermind dead last, of the table. Wendy was bat-shit crazy. I actually think they've got the wrong guy for the 1 ice pick 1 lunatic murders. Magnotta obviously had an identical twin who Ramos also brutally murdered and sodomised. Then he skinned the guy and wore his face as a mask whilst killing the second poor bastard in the vid.

Absolutely fair play to H for his work but his real work, and what was most impressive, was not getting that squad into the top half. It was pushing them on into the top 4 finally over the next 3 seasons.

rich75 · Jun 15, 2012

talkshowhost86 said:
It's all about balance. Harry deserves the credit for stopping the slump that ended with us having...wait a minute I've forgotten what it was...was it....ummmmm 2 points from 8 games? Once we'd beaten Hull that season we actually went on a hell of a run and he deserves the credit for that.

However he also deserves the criticism that is due following the not very many points in too many games that happened from about February onwards this year. Sadly balance isn't a word that is understood by the media so we'll just have to put up with their jaundiced view of things.

I think it's very lazy to say he turned a bottom of the table team into a champions league team because it ignores why we were where we were and also ignores some of the fortune that Harry had such as Bale's sudden emergence.

But at the same time it's equally lazy to say 'well he was just doing what was expected...we always had a top four team and that's what he should have been achieving'.

At the end of the day we are a better team now than when Harry joined the club and he has to take at least some of the credit for that.

Which also ignores the possibility that Redknapp had something to do with Bales sudden emergence. It's all a massive circular argument really. The bloke did well at some things and not so well at others, which bits fans pick and choose to apply to each of those situations is by and large irrelevant given that we're guessing in the absence of knowing what "could" have happened.

Misfit · Jun 15, 2012

Kendall said:
Nobody can sit here and say they saw Redknapp's appointment as a long term thing for Spurs. He's an old manager, with a great knack of getting players working hard.

He was brought in to add some direction to a sinking ship and all in all exceeded his original expectation. That said, expectations change and I cannot forgive us not capitalising on our position two years running.

2010/11 - 3 points from 18 against Wigan, West Ham and Blackpool - Unforgivable.
2011/12 - 10 points clear of 4th, 2-0 up against the Goons to go 13 points clear, finish 4th.

Now, last season if you'd said we'd finish 4th, I'd have bitten your whole arm off. But as I say, expectations change and the last few months were unforgivable. I liken it to going to United and being happy with a draw, then as the game unfolds we go 5-0 up at half time and end up drawing 5-5. You wouldn't be happy then, would you?

All in all, Redknapp was a short term appointment, who bought himself more time by having great success. But ultimately we didn't kick on. Spurs like any business need to plan for the future and Redknapp was not buying into that.

If Redknapp was younger, hadn't flirted with England and hadn't admitted he would've left, he'd probably still be in a job, because aside from some massive failings, I don't think, results wise, he really deserved to be sacked.

But people need to stop looking solely at results and need to look at the business plan on and off the pitch.

This is spot on I think.

jamesc0le · Jun 15, 2012

the greatest trick that redknapp ever pulled was convincing the yids darren bent didn't exist..

hodsgod · Jun 15, 2012

Montasura said:
Honestly, I've been growing so tired of hearing this over the last number of weeks/months - first in support of Harry and now in the vast array of articles about his sacking.

But rather than being a typical thread of rant, what I wanted to do was prompt some discussion on that particula time 4 years ago.

My personal opinion is that whoever was brought in to replace Ramos would most likely have had the same effect. I don't believe it was anything particularly to do with Harry himself, although I acknowledge that one of his stronger points is his famed man management skills, the arm around the shoulder technique. But its not like we had a crap squad, in fact we had the makings of a fairly decent squad, some of who are still there. What Ramos did wrong has been well documented and discussed and IMO the players had got caught in the ever increasing spotlight and were losing whatever fragile confidence they had left. So what we needed was a change of manager. I'm not for one second disputing what we achieved under Harry over the four years, but solely focussing on his initial few months I honestly believe that whoever could have taken over would probably have had the same outcome.

Thoughts??

That doesn't make sense at all, you make an assumption that every manager is better than Ramos. How can that be true? They can't possibly all be better and therefore another manager may have got us relegated.

I certainly accept that the squad was not as bad as the league position it held, and Harry had certainly an easy job to improve things.

The truth is Harry had the best sequence of finishes in 48 years, that alone would indicate he did the right things most of the time.

I don't think any manager gets that string of results without being a decent manager. Levys job now is to get a better manager, it won't be easy to do.

HappySpur · Jun 15, 2012

SpurSince57 · Jun 15, 2012

tRiKS said:
essentially Ramos wouldnt play King in the league. Although fit to do so he decided to play him at the start of that season in the UEFA Cup and Early Carling cup games. Harry just switched that around and results improved. As under Hoddle and jol before him, Ramos and Harry (for the first 3.5 seasons) were all relient on King playing to get results. the GPP ratio was between 1.1-1.3 without and from 1.8-2.1 with, for ALL those managers over the last 8 seasons. Bascially only a manger who wouldnt play King would have failed to improve vastly on 2pts form 8 games.

Personally i think Ramos engineered himself the sack. He had already decided England wasn't for him, knew the Madid caretaker role was an option and got himself sacked (compensated). reputation intact as he'd won yet another cup at club level and the spainsh press portrayed SPurs and the english media rather successfully as the zenophobic bad guys. A view incidentally that the rest of Europe has over us and Capello.

Where to start with this farrago? Goodness knows. It was all down to Ledders, eh?

Cobblers.

It wasn't just the infamous 'two from eight'. The victory over Arsenal and the Carling Cup Win glossed over the fact that we were largely garbage from January on, and that there was no dramatic improvement before then. Of Ramos' ten wins, six were in his first nine games, four of them against struggling clubs, the other two against Pompey and City, half-decent sides that we always beat. Thereafter there were just four more wins, all against sides in trouble.

But I don't think we should concentrate on 'two from eight'. Instead, let's point out that 1.74 PPG puts Harry at the top of the managerial tree in terms of career league results, and that the last three seasons, plus Jol's second and third, represent the best sequence of league form anyone under 60 can remember.

As for Ramos deliberately engineering his own exit, yeah, sure, whatever. Tinfoil hat time, is it?

Mattspur · Jun 15, 2012

Mullers said:
I did like the fact that he wanted to make the players healthier and fitter. When Harry took over he just seem to piss all over that idea.

I think this was a major factor in losing the dressing room. Our players weren't professional enough to take it on board and didn't like being told what to do. I think is says a lot about the mentality of our players at the time.

Misfit · Jun 15, 2012

Mattspur said:
I think this was a major factor in losing the dressing room. Our players weren't professional enough to take it on board and didn't like being told what to do. I think is says a lot about the mentality of our players at the time.

I'm not convinced it's changed much tbh.

Forums

What's new

Matches

Sportsbook

Members

"2 points from 8 games" - SO WHAT!!!!!

Sand gets everywhere!!!!!

Active Member

Sand gets everywhere!!!!!

Ledley's No.1 fan

Unknown member

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

Mod-Moose

Well-Known Member

ENIC IN

Well-Known Member

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub

Well-Known Member

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub

SISS:LOKO:plays/thinks/eats chicken like sissoko!

Well-Known Member

You Can't Unfry Things Jerri

Well-Known Member

ENIC IN

President of The Niles Crane Fanclub

Similar threads