The solution to our problems (I think)

I like this idea lot Joey. I think a lot of people are still thinking you mean 'Jenas for the holding role'.
I'm not sure, but i believe that most team don't have a holding player at all. Even United don't have one - and they have Carrick! Most just assign one to be more defensive than the other (Joey Barton, Carrick at United, Vieira back in the day).

I have a suggestion though. I know Teemu has always done well for us, even out of position (i know many would argue against that), but what about a naturally left sided player there? Teemu offers us bite and protection there. What about Assou-Ekotto? I remember when we signed him they said he could play LB as well as LM. We finished 5th last year with YP Lee as our leftback. Why not again? We'd finally have 2 lefties on the left hand side of the pitch, but like last season (having Edgar and Teemu on the left), Lee'd have the help he needed from his midfielder in front of him.

Robinson

Chimbonda - Dawson - King - YP Lee

Lennon - Malbranque - Jenas - Assou-Ekotto

Defoe - Berbatov

Obviously when they're all fit, but i think that would be a very classy line up.

jj anchor role,mate r u sure.we will get overun big time. that may work aagainst crap teams but not for real class midfield battles.malbronque in middle i agree,untill we buy in summer id play 4 .3.2.1 its the only way with the players we got mal;que and lennon playing in a diaamond behind berbs with tanio jenas and ghaly behind

I do agree that Malbranque shouldnt play on the left in a 4-4-2 and voiced this some time ago, he is a liability on the left because of his non-defensive capablities. I'm not sure that Malbranque is rounded enough as a footballer to play in the Centre of Midfield. Fulham FC did not do it because of this reason i'm quite sure, he played on the right a similar situation to Backham in that respect.

I don't agree with the idea that Jermaine Jenas should play as a defensive midfielder, it would take away to many aspect from his game. IMO Huddletone is a defensive midfielder and should be used only as that, Tainio, Zokora, are the others.

I like many other SC member have watched spurs and have come to a conclusion that we should not have any more than two little players/non-battlers in the team at anyone time, from midfield to attack Ie.. Defoe, Malbranque, Keane, Lennon should never all play together.

Looking at the squad it is abit unbalance, we dont have the correct squad members (left winger) to play 4-4-2 correctly like Man Utd eg. There for 4-3-1-2 OR 4-3-3 should be tried.

IMO two optional teams 4-3-1-2

...................Cerny
Chimbonda Dawson Gardner Assou-Ekotto
.......Jenas Huddlestone Zokora
..................Lennon
.......Berbatov........Defoe

4-3-3

...................Cerny
Chimbonda Dawson Gardner Lee
.....Jenas Huddlestone Zokora...
Lennon..........................Malbranque
...............Berbatov


And for the 4-4-2 lovers (so you dont bite my head off)

.................Cerny
Chimbonda Dawson Gardner Assou-Ekotto
Lennon Jenas Zokora Tainio
............Berbatov Defoe

joey55 said:

But do you not agree that his game is more suited to the role I've suggested. I think he'd be fantastic at protecting the back 4, whilst linking the play to the more advanced players. Unlike Carrick and the Hudd, he wouldn't have to sit and hold, as he is sufficiently athletic to get up and down the pitch, like Vieira used to. He'd still be a threat from set pieces and with late runs in to the box. I don't think it would effect his goal tally that much.

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joey55 said:

He wont be playing the holding role. That is the point. We shouldn't have a holding midfielder, who simply sits and protects the back 4. We should just play with a midfielder, who though primarily deffensive, can still get up and down the pitch. He'd be playing much more like Vieira or Keane when he was at his peak, rather than how Zokora or the Hudd currently play.

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Frankly, I'm astonished. I always thought you were one of the more observant members on here, Joey.

What do you think JJ's current role in the team is? Cos I think you've just accurately described it above.

As for TT on the left, I think other Premiership managers would love it, but I don't. If Steed gets shifted to the centre and we need some extra solidity out there then BAE is the only player we have with the potential not to be woeful.

I share your views, Joey, and personally I can't wait to see Malbranque alongside JJ with Lennon and TT on the flanks. Let's hope Jol has the guts to try this on Saturday. The problem is that TT and JJ are probably not fit enough to last the whole game, but I still believe those four players are the best midfielders available to us right now.

Totally agree and have said so before

Jenas's best qualities are all defensive..

He would be well suited to a defensive midfield position

If he was at Arsenal, Wenger would have changed him by now

ChRiStOpHe said:

I like this idea lot Joey. I think a lot of people are still thinking you mean 'Jenas for the holding role'.
I'm not sure, but i believe that most team don't have a holding player at all. Even United don't have one - and they have Carrick! Most just assign one to be more defensive than the other (Joey Barton, Carrick at United, Vieira back in the day).

I have a suggestion though. I know Teemu has always done well for us, even out of position (i know many would argue against that), but what about a naturally left sided player there? Teemu offers us bite and protection there. What about Assou-Ekotto? I remember when we signed him they said he could play LB as well as LM. We finished 5th last year with YP Lee as our leftback. Why not again? We'd finally have 2 lefties on the left hand side of the pitch, but like last season (having Edgar and Teemu on the left), Lee'd have the help he needed from his midfielder in front of him.

Robinson

Chimbonda - Dawson - King - YP Lee

Lennon - Malbranque - Jenas - Assou-Ekotto

Defoe - Berbatov

Obviously when they're all fit, but i think that would be a very classy line up.

Click to expand...

while i like joey's thinking, this is the line up that i'd like to see.

we all know that BAE is quick, can tackle and would stay wide.
steed would be far more effective in the centre.
zokora, while a good athlete, lacks the passing game.
JJ, when fit, should be first on the team sheet.
TT is a bench player who can add more bite when the going gets rough.

Not a bad idea at all Joey, could well work as an option.

Although I still feel that Zokora is good enough to play in a central 2, we are not playing well at the moment and we need to change something.

we need. a nicky butt style player. whether we already have one at the club or have to bring one in, this is the type of player we need.

sits in front of the back four. makes interceptions. tackles. generally tidies up the play by simply laying it off to a teammate. the type who does his job and doesnt get many paludits for doing the dirty work.

would shore up the defencice side. and start an attacking platform

New boy here, I'd also like to agree with Joey except for the left hand side. I'd play Assou-Ekotto in front of Lee with lennon right and JJ and Steed in the middle. If manu can play scholes in the middle we can also play Steed.

Huddlestone has to play

League midfield combinations so far:

Davids Jenas Zokora (Hudd) Lennon

Tainio (Zokora) Davids Jenas Lennon

Tainio (Zokora) Davids Jenas Lennon

Davids (Ziegler) Jenas Zokora Ghaly + Murphy

Tainio (Defoe) Murphy (Davids) Jenas Zokora

Tainio (Davids) Murphy (Mido) Jenas Zokora

Murphy Jenas Zokora Ghaly + Huddlestone

Murphy Jenas Zokora Ghaly (Lennon) + Davids

Davids Jenas Huddlestone Lennon (Ghaly)

Ghaly (Murphy) Jenas Huddlestone Lennon

Lennon Jenas Zokora Ghaly

Lennon Jenas Zokora (Huddlestone) Ghaly

Davids (Malbranque) Zokora Huddlestone Ghaly

Malbranque Zokora Huddlestone Lennon

Malbranque (Jenas) Zokora Tainio Lennon

Malbranque Zokora Huddlestone Lennon

Malbranque (Murphy) Tainio Huddlestone Lennon

Malbranque Tainio Huddlestone Ghaly

Malbranque Zokora Huddlestone Ghaly

Malbranque Zokora Huddlestone Ghaly (Murphy)

Malbranque (Keane) Tainio (Zokora) Huddlestone Lennon + Ghaly

Malbranque Tainio (Zokora) Huddlestone Ghaly (Lennon)

Malbranque Zokora (Ghaly) Huddlestone Lennon

Why not to try Ghaly in replacement for Carrick in CM.he used to do this role when he was in Feyenoord.he's a great athelete and his football is nice.if only he concentrated a little,he would be brilliant and i think he's very effective in attacking by his moves on the pitch

What we need is squad discipline and player defined roles for the players in our team. We should abandon the fluid style of football in exchange for a more role orientated team.

As everyone knows, JJ is a great athelete. We should instruct him to chase the ball all over the pitch and nip at players in the way Davids did.

We should pair him with Ghaly, another versatile midfielder to pair up with him in the middle. Although Malbranque can also play this role, he doesn't have the required energy levels to run up and down the pitch on a constantly. (Although I'm sure Ghaly probably can't either. He is a box-to-box midfielder and at Feyenoord he did actually run). Both players can pass the ball, tackle and are balanced.

Naturally, I'd have Zokora mopping up in defensive midfield. Criticize him all you want, he has all the attributes to succeed there. The rest of our midfield are fantastic passers of the long ball, Zokora's pretty decent too. I think he's not sure as when to pass the ball which could be an adaption issue, or he might just be rather stupid. Either way, with two great passing midfielder in front of him a short pass is adequate. Although it could slow down our tempo. TT could adapt to this role, although Zokora can potentially excel at it.

One of the great things about our midfield is there all versatile enough to swap roles if one gets out of position. I don't think we're actually using this to our advantage presently.

With three in midfield, that leaves three up front. I'm not sure if Berbatov's strong enough yet to play that role but he's decent in the air and he can create chances with the ball at his feet. Without another player to feed through we may struggle to find goals, but we're hardly banging them in at the moment. Saying this, the left and right sided attackers would support as would Jenas.

On the right you could play Lennon.

On the left I'd play either Lee, shock, or Lennon. Both have the pace to cause damage and both can beat a man.

I'd like to see us try this tactic once. It could be beneficial to the team to have a few other tactical options.

I like the 4 as suggested, but I still keep thinking we're missing a trick in not getting Salty playing, especially away. he's got the grit, physicality and energy that we so often lack - I haven't got a clue where we should play him - but a 4-5-1 with him involved, maybe giving Mido a go too instead of Berby might be an idea

Probably all nonsense - but I think Salty can give us some of the toughness we've been missing this season

I read this last night and wasn't exactly sure how to reply, or even what my thoughts were exactly on this idea. I have issues with it, but I am not sure they aren't issues that can be overcome.

Firstly, Jenas could be great coming from deeper, that way he would have more influence on the flow of the play, rather than playing in front of it all the time. He covers a lot of ground and has a great engine on him so coming back a bit deeper and starting moves but still being able to get involved in the box shouldn't be much of a problem physically.

However I am not sure he would be disciplined enough to drop into that role. I fully understand he wouldn't be sitting in front of the back four, but it would still require him to protect the defence and be very well organised when we don't have the ball. I am not sure his positioning in that role would be good enough and I think it is always his instinct to get forward. However I am sure with some work in training he could learn to do this. However he would have to be able to come back get the ball, either play it and continue his move forward or drive with it. Too often has our play starting from deep this season involved a simple ball and then a very static midfield. Jenas has the potential to immediately make our playmaking more dynamic.

My main issues occur due to this being a solution for this season, because if Jenas was to play this role I wouldn't want him to play it with Malbranque. My reason for this is that if Jenas is playing a more dynamic box to box playmaking role and Malbranque is going to play a very forward midfield role I think we are going to lose out in midfield battles against any team that is tough in the tackle and his big men in midfield. We will simply get over run.

In theory it is a great idea and I would love to see Jenas playing this role. I can't see it happening this season, because we don't have the right player to play next to him. Unfortunately Jenas would also be expected to be a leader in the midfield in this situation and he certainly isn't a leader no matter how much he develops his game to play this role.

If we found a strong, tough tackling leader of men, who also possessed good footballing ability and was a decent athlete, Jenas would absolutely revel in this role. That won't be until at least next season. Maybe if we can sign Parker, Nolan or even Barton then Jenas could play this dynamic playmaking role and really excel. It might make all the difference to Spurs too.

Dont put your hopes too high regardless of combinations. Its more the attitude of the players on the field rather than who is on. So far, only Steed showed me enough passion and desire to win. The rest let their heads drop too easily when things are not going their way.

idlepete said:

Frankly, I'm astonished. I always thought you were one of the more observant members on here, Joey.

What do you think JJ's current role in the team is? Cos I think you've just accurately described it above.

As for TT on the left, I think other Premiership managers would love it, but I don't. If Steed gets shifted to the centre and we need some extra solidity out there then BAE is the only player we have with the potential not to be woeful.

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But the key difference is that currently JJ plays with someone behind him, either the Hudd or Zokora. In this system, whilst he'll have a similar role to what he does at the moment, he first inclination has to be to defend rather than attack. He can still get forward, but he has to choose his moments more selectively than he currently does. I used the example of Gerrard and Vieira earlier in the thread and hopefully this will make it clearer for you to understand the difference I'm talking about. Both Gerrard and Vieira are box to box midfielders, but Gerrard plays with more attacking intent and Vieira more deffensive minded. At the moment JJ plays more like Gerrard and I'm suggesting he plays more in the Vieira role. I can understand why you think I've suggested he should play a role he is already playing, but hopefully this example should highlight the subtle, but significant difference. We'd still have the deffensive solidity we have now (we don't actually have it now, but in theory with a holding player like Zoko/Hudd we should), but we'd also have creativity through Malbranque which we currently lack.

As for BAE instead of TT, I'd be more than happy with that. The system is still the same. I think TT did a good job there last season and we'd be solid with him their, but if you and others such as Christophe want BAE, that's fine with me and I think he's a good choice. My only concern would be that TT would cut inside and put tackles in the middle as well, which BAE wouldn't. But that isn't too big a deal as I feel people really under rate the tackling of Malbranque, particuarly in the middle where his pace wont be so exposed.

DC_Boy said:

I like the 4 as suggested, but I still keep thinking we're missing a trick in not getting Salty playing, especially away. he's got the grit, physicality and energy that we so often lack - I haven't got a clue where we should play him - but a 4-5-1 with him involved, maybe giving Mido a go too instead of Berby might be an idea

Probably all nonsense - but I think Salty can give us some of the toughness we've been missing this season

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Funny you say that, I was actually thinking about having Salty playing in front of the back four. But I'm not convinced his footballing ability would stand up playing in midfield. Not sure it is worthit for the qualities he brings to the team.

when salty signed didnt they say he could play as a defensive mid? just a thought..........

..........maybe i should have kept it to myself