The solution to our problems (I think)

[Gazza T]

Jenas is not hard enough to play in the mid like that. I agree with inoffmeleftshin. we need a big hard fucker like nolan ( not barton tho, he is not as good as media make out ). Zokora might become that player but it might not be til next season.

 

[FredMoney]

Joey is spot on.I was thinking about this idea whiles watching middlesbrough funnily enough.They moved arca(left mid) from the wing into the centre of midfield-he was spraying passes around left right and centre.Which made me think malbranque could do the same thing if moved into the centre.

 

[Jack2]

Sounds very sensible. The problem with TT on the left flank may be that that is the place where he doesn't want to play. He has indicated this publicly. The problem may then be that you can't get the best out of the player when he doesn't feel that he operates in the right place. Even thought he did well there last season.

The other problem is that he seems to be injured more than be on the pitch nowadays. I hope we can get a real LM/LW next summer and can move Steed in the middle like you suggested.

 

[g_harry]

Zokora Was Not Bought For Carricks Replacement

 

[Real_madyidd]

Nooooo!

I have read through this post, and I thought Joey may have something here. Then Fredmoney has agreed. I cant believe I agree with them.

Great plan though. Some silly commets but I cant be bothered to pick up on them.

I do think we have to look for players that work together, sometimes the best individuals are not the best for the team. In fact you could say that this premiership season is being dominated by great tems, rather than great players.

 

[DC_Boy]

Hi InOff & Knilly

Yep no idea where Salty could play - If Lennon wasn't fit, maybe right mid -

or on another day maybe left mid or left back and push Lee forward - maybe CM in a three-

I just think we would benefit from his presence, because there doesn't seem to be enough tackling going on at the moment

we do need a bit of 'foot in' - controlled of course, but I don't recall Salty being sent off last season

 

[g_harry]

Doesnt Matter What Combination Is Sent Out - If Any Of Them Could Make A Tackle That Would Be A Great Start. Tottenham Players Have Got A Reputation Of Being Soft It's Very True In This Teams Preformances So Far This Season - A Bunch Of Old Woman.

 

[joey55]

Jenas is not hard enough to play in the mid like that. I agree with inoffmeleftshin. we need a big hard fucker like nolan ( not barton tho, he is not as good as media make out ). Zokora might become that player but it might not be til next season.

Why do you think that? He is a big strong athletic guy who is by far our best ball winner. JJ doesn't get forced of the ball easily and knows how to use the ball when in possession. Zokora will never become that player. He doesn't make enough tackles, needs too much time on the ball and will never be able to use the ball sufficiently well when he has it. Why people keep on saying next season with him is beyond me. He won't suddenly be able to pass and his first touch wont have improved. The deffensive side of his game, barring the odd clumsy moment is fine. He doesn't need time to adapt, he needs to become a better footballer. It is not as if he has a history of playing top class football, but is just struggling to adapt. He has a history of being average in very average competition. Just because he now wears a Spurs shirt is no reason to ignore this. If he was playing for another Premiership team, I'm sure all his current fans would take great pleasure in saying how rubbish he is. Because he plays for us and a lot of untrue stuff was written about him in the media before he came, people seem insitent on seeing good in him. People don't judge him on what they see or what he has done in the past, they judge him on what they assumed he was going to be before he came here and still expect him to become that player.

 

[joey55]

Zokora Was Not Bought For Carricks Replacement

If you'd seem Zokora play during his time at St Ettienne then you wouldn't say this. Just like Carrick Zokora played as a midfield anchor, as he did for the IC. Just because he was bought before Carrick left means nothing. Lennon, King, Keane, Defoe and Robbo had all signed new contracts before the end of last season. The only one who hadn't was Carrick. The club aren't stupid. They would have known all about Utd's interest for a long time and with Carrick not signing a new contract, they would have lined up a replacement. I know people question alot of what Jol does, but can you really imagine him planning a CM of CArrick and Zokora?

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Why do you think that? He is a big strong athletic guy who is by far our best ball winner. JJ doesn't get forced of the ball easily and knows how to use the ball when in possession. Zokora will never become that player. He doesn't make enough tackles, needs too much time on the ball and will never be able to use the ball sufficiently well when he has it. Why people keep on saying next season with him is beyond me. He won't suddenly be able to pass and his first touch wont have improved. The deffensive side of his game, barring the odd clumsy moment is fine. He doesn't need time to adapt, he needs to become a better footballer. It is not as if he has a history of playing top class football, but is just struggling to adapt. He has a history of being average in very average competition. Just because he now wears a Spurs shirt is no reason to ignore this. If he was playing for another Premiership team, I'm sure all his current fans would take great pleasure in saying how rubbish he is. Because he plays for us and a lot of untrue stuff was written about him in the media before he came, people seem insitent on seeing good in him. People don't judge him on what they see or what he has done in the past, they judge him on what they assumed he was going to be before he came here and still expect him to become that player.

Joey, as someone who has stated the fact the we need a leader in the centre (ala Parker) for next season, are you suggesting this just a solution for this season. If so my concerns remain, that Jenas' natural inclination is to play an attacking role, as I stated in my previous reply I think he has all the attributes for the role you are suggesting but it would probably take too long for him to master the positioning and organisation of the midfield in order to successfully take on this role this season.

It is certainly something I would like him to do more, but next season would be more likely, by which time hopefully there would be someone more appropriate for him to play alongside.

 

[SpurSince57]

Jenas is not hard enough to play in the mid like that. I agree with inoffmeleftshin. we need a big hard fucker like nolan ( not barton tho, he is not as good as media make out ). Zokora might become that player but it might not be til next season.

Jenas is a lot harder than he looks, and in any case this isn't about who we might like, it's about making the most effective use of what we actually have. Size isn't necessarily anything to do with it in any case. Davids is only the same height as Malbranque and a stone or so lighter. Mackay was only 5' 7" or 5' 8" too.

 

[Gazza T]

I wasnt saying he will be a world beater next season. I do have major doubts bout him aswell. He just seemed to play much better in the world cup than with us this season. I cant see JJ and Steed in the middle under Jol. In fact I cant see a good pairing between all our midfielders. If we are to play 442 we need a new DM in the summer. Cud have to play with 3 somehow otherwise.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

Jenas is not hard enough to play in the mid like that. I agree with inoffmeleftshin. we need a big hard fucker like nolan ( not barton tho, he is not as good as media make out ). Zokora might become that player but it might not be til next season.

Note that I didn't say Jenas couldn't play that role! I said he quite clearly could, but it would take some adaption which might be askign a bit much this season.

And the reason I said we needed a hardman, leader type wasn't instead of playing Jenas it was combined with Jenas, instead of playing Malbranque in the centre.

Personally I would rather if Jenas was going to try this role way played TT in the centre and Malbranque on the wing. We need to be more industrious in the middle, but TT will need to learn to pass and move more. Malbranque and Lennon on the wings would give us two good outballs when we are under pressure.

 

[joey55]

Joey, as someone who has stated the fact the we need a leader in the centre (ala Parker) for next season, are you suggesting this just a solution for this season. If so my concerns remain, that Jenas' natural inclination is to play an attacking role, as I stated in my previous reply I think he has all the attributes for the role you are suggesting but it would probably take too long for him to master the positioning and organisation of the midfield in order to successfully take on this role this season.

It is certainly something I would like him to do more, but next season would be more likely, by which time hopefully there would be someone more appropriate for him to play alongside.

This could be true, but could he be any worse than what we already have. I still can't get my head around how the Scum could have 72% of the possession and Utd about 60% (can't recall exact stat) at WHL. They are good teams but during all our recent games I've been pulling my hair out as our midfielde have failed to control any part of the game. There is no cohesion, so when we get the ball we don't use it. We need to change something in the middle of the park. You could be right and it might take a while, but surley it can't be any worse than it has been recently.

 

[FinnYid]

Wether the players will line-up like Joey said or no, that seems to be favoured 4 of BMJ.

Our midfielders with PL starts and times on bench no matter wether they came in or not:

Jenas 12/1 - 92%
Malbranque 12/1 - 92%
Tainio 10/1 - 91%
Lennon 13/2 - 87%
Ghaly 13/4 - 76%
Zokora 16/5 - 76%
Huddlestone 14/8 - 63%
Davids 6/7 - 46%
Murphy 5/11 - 31%

Ziegler 0/6
O'Hara 0/2

Know they don't tell the truth, but since it's impossible to know who were available to selection due injuries so just picked these simple stats to put in a guess of Jols favoured players. And of course Lennon would have probably started those 2 games if he was fully fit, but it might still draw a big picture. Now of 4 players Jol has favoured most, only Lennon has started over 50% of PL games and even he just slightly. And TT + JJ seem to be constantly rushed back and played half-fit with risk(that has materialised more than once with both) of new injury.

So my take is we will see what Joey suggested or with modification of Steed/TT swapping places against Blades. That is assuming of course no new injuries.

 

[Gazza T]

Jenas is a lot harder than he looks, and in any case this isn't about who we might like, it's about making the most effective use of what we actually have. Size isn't necessarily anything to do with it in any case. Davids is only the same height as Malbranque and a stone or so lighter. Mackay was only 5' 7" or 5' 8" too.

Your right its not about height but it is about attitude and aggresion in that role and I dont think Jenas is suited. We all have our views. I play as a bit of a dirty player in the mid and think it necessary to have that kind of player. Thats my view. Maybe in Prem it might work against some teams with JJ in that role but for me it isnt a solution.

 

[InOffMeLeftShin]

This could be true, but could he be any worse than what we already have. I still can't get my head around how the Scum could have 72% of the possession and Utd about 60% (can't recall exact stat) at WHL. They are good teams but during all our recent games I've been pulling my hair out as our midfielde have failed to control any part of the game. There is no cohesion, so when we get the ball we don't use it. We need to change something in the middle of the park. You could be right and it might take a while, but surley it can't be any worse than it has been recently.

Hence why I would prefer him to play in the centre with the more industrious TT if he is going to take on this role this season, otherwise I fear we will get over-run in the midfield. Malbranque would sit too high up the pitch and we would become even more disjointed. The centre of midfield really needs to work as a pair, so if Jenas is going to come deep and dictate from there, TT would be a more natural foil to produce an organised unit. If Malbranque can stay out on the wing it would help us as well as it gives us more options trying to break.

Then for next season when Jenas was more adapted to the role we could add the Parker or Nolan type and have a strong midfield that could cover, tackle and move the play from the back to the front. Remember Vieira was best when he was with Petit and Keane was best with Scholes (who doesn't just sit in front).

I like the idea though.

 

[Gazza T]

Hence why I would prefer him to play in the centre with the more industrious TT if he is going to take on this role this season, otherwise I fear we will get over-run in the midfield. Malbranque would sit too high up the pitch and we would become even more disjointed. The centre of midfield really needs to work as a pair, so if Jenas is going to come deep and dictate from there, TT would be a more natural foil to produce an organised unit. If Malbranque can stay out on the wing it would help us as well as it gives us more options trying to break.

Then for next season when Jenas was more adapted to the role we could add the Parker or Nolan type and have a strong midfield that could cover, tackle and move the play from the back to the front. Remember Vieira was best when he was with Petit and Keane was best with Scholes (who doesn't just sit in front).

I like the idea though.

Agree with all that. JJ with TT

 

[joey55]

Agree with all that. JJ with TT

Whilst i obviously would prefer the system I've suggested, I think TT and JJ will be the option Jol goes with. I won't be overly dissapointed as I think it gives us a bettter chance of finishing in the top 6 than any of the recent partnerships. I'm a huge Hudd fan and thought he and TT were pretty good together, but feel the Hudd has to improve his decision making. His weight is obviously an issue, but to me the key for him is to gain more experience. He just needs more experience than he currently has and then he will start to see when to try the more complicated pass and when to keep it simple. He'll still get plenty of playing time this season even if JJ/TT are the first choice. If he can sort himself out physically, in a years time the Hudd could be top quality, but for now I'd rather he gained experience from coming off the bench and starting when TT or JJ are injured, which is a pretty frequent occurrence for both of them.

 

[DoublePivot]

The problem with the Tianio argument is that he has been injured 3 times during the life of this thread. He can be a solid player, but with his fragile state, you can never expect him to be anything more than a role player.