João Moutinho

dagraham · Dec 31, 2012

beats1 said:
I hear this argument alot but players tend to score more in a 433 and share the goals then in a more rigid system and also we scored alot of goals last season with our front 4 tbh and our front 3 should potentially make better runs and get themselves in better positions and midfielders that make late runs should also get themselves in better positions like Lampard does

I don't think its as simple as that. Lampard's goal scoring record can't just be attributed to the system he plays, its down to his superb ability to time his runs, his movement, desire to get there and above all else, his composure when he gets there.

Dembele's development has seen him steadily move further away from goal for a reason. Playing 4-3-3 won't play to his strenghts and make him a goal scoring threat any more than it would make Ade a good finisher.

What it will do, IMO, is put too much pressure on Bale to provide the goals.

The only way i can see it working is if we had someone like Ba and a Nani/Willian.

Harry_Snatch · Dec 31, 2012

Blake Griffin said:
he's never played the role as far as i know though. he's basically a more tenacious, less talented version of modric and i didn't want him behind the striker so i wouldn't want moutinho either.

on page 1 alone of the transfer rumours forum i'm more interested in any links to sneijder, ba, nani, villa, isco, benat, willian, eriksen, aubameyang etc than i am of moutinho. i get that he's very good at what he does, i just don't feel that's what we need to push us over the line.

Not sure I agree with that tbh. At the world cup there wasn't much between them when they were there to watch game for game.

I guess the logical thought is that we go 4-3-3 and either Lennon adapts or we play Siggy as an inside forward as he'd probably provide more goal threat. It means Ade or Defoe lose minutes though.

Blackcanary · Dec 31, 2012

Harry_Snatch said:
yeah thought that straight after I posted as I have said the same in the past. Would be a massive risk to seperate Sandro and Dembele though.

I guess it gives us flexibility if we get injurys.

Moutinho is a strong, sturdy little player though - I don't think we'd lose any strength in the middle if we plonked him into Mousa's deeper-lying spot and pulled Mousa forward to really drive at defences. Besides, i'm assuming we're going to switch to 4-3-3 eventually, which is going to involve those three rotating. That middle is going to be hardier than diamond.

Harry_Snatch · Dec 31, 2012

Blackcanary said:
Moutinho is a strong, sturdy little player though - I don't think we'd lose any strength in the middle if we plonked him into Mousa's deeper-lying spot and pulled Mousa forward to really drive at defences. Besides, i'm assuming we're going to switch to 4-3-3 eventually, which is going to involve those three rotating. That middle is going to be hardier than diamond.

I guess that's the thinking. All I would say is that our midfield has only lacked one thing and thats creativity and it's only lacked that sporadically but Moutinho is among the best in Europe at adding that creativity so it makes sense to sign him. Fear of breaking up a partnership is not a reason not to sign him. It's just fear.

dirtyh · Dec 31, 2012

Harry_Snatch said:
I guess that's the thinking. All I would say is that our midfield has only lacked one thing and thats creativity and it's only lacked that sporadically but Moutinho is among the best in Europe at adding that creativity so it makes sense to sign him. Fear of breaking up a partnership is not a reason not to sign him. It's just fear.

agree. he can only improve us in my opinion.

beats1 · Dec 31, 2012

dagraham said:
I don't think its as simple as that. Lampard's goal scoring record can't just be attributed to the system he plays, its down to his superb ability to time his runs, his movement, desire to get there and above all else, his composure when he gets there.

Dembele's development has seen him steadily move further away from goal for a reason. Playing 4-3-3 won't play to his strenghts and make him a goal scoring threat any more than it would make Ade a good finisher.

What it will do, IMO, is put too much pressure on Bale to provide the goals.

The only way i can see it working is if we had someone like Ba and a Nani/Willian.

I agree with lampard's goals being down to the fact, he is the best midfielder in world at picking his runs and timing it so that he does enter the box at the right time and not too early so that he goes in to blind alley and not too late he doesnt get on the end of it, but it has also be seen in the seasons he didnt play 433 he scored less goals, including one manager(i forgot tbh) who made him play deeper in the first half and he hardly got any goals and then he got sacked and and it went back to 433 and Lampard got 15 goals in the second half or something like that

Also Guarin wasnt a goalscoring threat and Im not saying dembele will be our lampard but he will get in more dangerous positions and he can be our Guarin, which is driving attacks forward and running in to the space created by the front 3 making fluid runs to the more space available. Guarin did this by often attacking the right wing when Hulk use to cut in and offered that new outlet

I also think we have many different options and feel Sig can become our lampard as he has the goal threat and does make decent runs, he isnt as good in terms of his runs and etc. but he is as big as a goal threat imo

I dont think it is and if Bale is going to Madrid he needs to improve this part of his game and he must know that, so he will be under less pressure with us than with Madrid and he does it fine with Wales tbh

Also as said before just because our midfielders arent scoring many goals in a 442/4231, doesnt mean they wont score alot in a 433, they should score more as they would be in better positions

Gbspurs · Dec 31, 2012

I think it's almost more important to bring a player in who knows AVBs philosophy. The fact that he also happens to be a world class playmaker who we desperately need helps! To me this is a signing which is perfect should it happen.

Ontop of that if you were an up-and-coming striker (damiao etc) and you saw a team that has recently added AVB, Lloris, Vertonghen and let's say Moutinho, and they also have Bale, would you join? I fucking would!! On top of that if they play well for 2 years and decide they can't stand it, Real Madrid/Man Utd might buy them! Win/win. Good time to be joining spurs.

dagraham · Dec 31, 2012

beats1 said:
I agree with lampard's goals being down to the fact, he is the best midfielder in world at picking his runs and timing it so that he does enter the box at the right time and not too early so that he goes in to blind alley and not too late he doesnt get on the end of it, but it has also be seen in the seasons he didnt play 433 he scored less goals, including one manager(i forgot tbh) who made him play deeper in the first half and he hardly got any goals and then he got sacked and and it went back to 433 and Lampard got 15 goals in the second half or something like that

Also Guarin wasnt a goalscoring threat and Im not saying dembele will be our lampard but he will get in more dangerous positions and he can be our Guarin, which is driving attacks forward and running in to the space created by the front 3 making fluid runs to the more space available. Guarin did this by often attacking the right wing when Hulk use to cut in and offered that new outlet

I also think we have many different options and feel Sig can become our lampard as he has the goal threat and does make decent runs, he isnt as good in terms of his runs and etc. but he is as big as a goal threat imo

I dont think it is and if Bale is going to Madrid he needs to improve this part of his game and he must know that, so he will be under less pressure with us than with Madrid and he does it fine with Wales tbh

Also as said before just because our midfielders arent scoring many goals in a 442/4231, doesnt mean they wont score alot in a 433, they should score more as they would be in better positions

In theory i agree with alot of what your saying, players will be in better positions to score. I'm just not convinced that they will turn those better positions into goals.

If we were able to get Moutinho, then we should have got him in the summer instead of Dembele imo. Rather than move Dembele further forward i think we should just leave him where is and buy someone far better at playing the number 10 role.

Having said all that, if we got Moutinho i'd be grinning like a Cheshire cat as he's a world class player.

beats1 · Dec 31, 2012

dagraham said:
In theory i agree with alot of what your saying, players will be in better positions to score. I'm just not convinced that they will turn those better positions into goals.

If we were able to get Moutinho, then we should have got him in the summer instead of Dembele imo. Rather than move Dembele further forward i think we should just leave him where is and buy someone far better at playing the number 10 role.

Having said all that, if we got Moutinho i'd be grinning like a Cheshire cat as he's a world class player.

I disagree having both dembele and Moutinho is a pretty amazing prospect imo, one of modric's best abilities(Which people dont credit him for), was his ability to create space for himself when dribbling(the match against united at home you see him constantly leaving united's CM in his dust and then exploiting that space. Dembele does this and he can be our Yaya Toure, he does offer a goal threat and maybe he can improve on this but he isnt a 20 goal midfielder

I mean watching a midfield of could be amazing but this midfield is still young as well to be honest and have different options with Sig and etc.

Moutinho Dembele

(Carroll) (Sig)

Sandro

(Parker/Luongo)

JonnySpurs · Dec 31, 2012

wishkah said:
A borrowed quote from another thread, think from Pony. No sauce given

Moutinho quote "I would like this move to happen, Spurs are a great club with great ambitions & a world class manager." If I were to tell you deal is done I'd be lying, but its very close now. I expect to be at Tottenham soon"

As much as I love to read the ins and outs of whether Dembele and Moutinho could play together, I'd rather focus on this quote and whether it is genuine or not!?

Anyone know?

Led Revolver · Dec 31, 2012

Moutinho now 4/9 on Skybet to have joined Tottenham by 1st February.. FYI, Sneijder is 1/1 to have joined us by then too & Willian 7/4. Llorente is 10/1.

panoma · Dec 31, 2012

Blake Griffin said:
because i don't think a team with sandro, moutinho and dembele as its midfield has enough goals in them, it's a pretty impotent trio. lennon doesn't get many so it leaves a lot of pressure on bale and whoever's up top to get us the goals we need. i feel that sandro and dembele has been one of if not the best cm partnerships this season so to break that up doesn't really make sense to me. our two forwardmost players are our weakest, whether it's two strikers or one striker and a #10 - that's where i feel the money needs spending, not central midfield.

I sort of agree with this, unless AVB plan to line up something like:

Dembele - Moutinho - Sandro

Defoe - Ade - Bale

Or a variation with Defoe in the middle and another goalthreat to the right. If the plan is a front 3 of Lennon, Ade and Bale we lack goals if those 3 CM's play behind, simple as that.

puella · Dec 31, 2012

JonnySpurs said:
As much as I love to read the ins and outs of whether Dembele and Moutinho could play together, I'd rather focus on this quote and whether it is genuine or not!?

Anyone know?

The person who tweeted it said it was from a local Portuguese newspaper. I'm skeptical.

GetSpurredOn · Dec 31, 2012

The 433 has king been mentioned as a work in progress for AVB. It was said the 4231 was an interim formation aimed at slowly moving from 442 to 433 rather than just introduce an alien formation straight off.
In terms of what it means to the players we have/want, a midfield three of Sandro, Dembele and Moutinho has all the craft and energy you'd want, no passengers in there. The main worry for some on here is where the goals would come from, but I actually think we'd be better off. Bale is having his best season to date in terms of goals scored, and if given license to push up more often it can only improve. Similarly Lennon, he is capable, just seems to default to play someone else in, but when pushed further forward could become more of a threat, driving into the box, or if he does look to cross Bale should be attacking the back stick. Beyond those two, Dempsey would be better suited to playing as a wide forward, and Sigurdsson did the business for Swansea playing off their front man. Maybe rumours of Remy tie in with his ability to play on the right of attack, offering pace and presence. This would lead me to question where Defoe fits in, as 'drag and shoot' doesn't seem the ideal skillet in a front three, Adebayor's seems better suited.
The one thing this system does concern me with though, is the need for a natural left back as our wide outlet, playing Naughton there would leave us too narrow coming forward.

tototoner · Dec 31, 2012

I could live with replacing Livermore and Huddlestone with Moutinho and Sneijder

In fact I wouldn't shed a tear if Jenas and Bentley were sold in January also

Blackcanary · Dec 31, 2012

tototoner said:
I could live with replacing Livermore and Huddlestone with Moutinho and Sneijder

In fact I wouldn't shed a tear if Jenas and Bentley were sold in January also

I'm about to test that cruel, cold heart of yours when I tell you that apparently Jenas is off permanently to Forest.

CoopsieDeadpool · Dec 31, 2012

GetSpurredOn said:
This would lead me to question where Defoe fits in, as 'drag and shoot' doesn't seem the ideal skillet in a front three, Adebayor's seems better suited.

The only problem with that is Ade is no 'goalscorer/striker' & has the shooting power of my 5 year old daughter. IF we are to slowly switch to a 4-3-3, we NEED a truly dependable & deadly 'striker' as a focal point up top.

Gbspurs · Dec 31, 2012

coopsieyid said:
The only problem with that is Ade is no 'goalscorer/striker' & has the shooting power of my 5 year old daughter. IF we are to slowly switch to a 4-3-3, we NEED a truly dependable & deadly 'striker' as a focal point up top.

Llorente?

edson · Dec 31, 2012

Gbspurs said:
Llorente?

Why not Ba, bad knees or not at 7m its a bargin.

steventhfc · Dec 31, 2012

tototoner said:
I could live with replacing Livermore and Huddlestone with Moutinho and Sneijder

In fact I wouldn't shed a tear if Jenas and Bentley were sold in January also

Better get the kleenex out then. For your eyes of course.

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